Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

[Trucker Tiger]

Good to see more of this coming to light. Shame it's taken so long.

I would have thought that the SAS running around Uruzgan like deranged mavericks only ever endangered the regular troops, who bore the brunt of reprisals.

 

[Power Raid]

I’m not sure what people think happens in war.......this is specifically aimed at politicians and command

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Firstly, we have to thank the soldiets who released this footage and the soldier in the story who is brutally honest. They risked a lot. Truly brave soldiers.

Secondly. We Have recognise this man was probably killed because he tended wheat and Not Opium. We have to make sure that if soldier c goes down for this, so do those who sent him there, prime Minister, defence Minister ect. Soldier c was Serving his country. His leaders lied to him, lied to us. Also the investigators have to go down for this as well, as the footage is quite clear and they had access to it. They've covered this up.

And fourthly they all should be named.

 

[Gough]

If Labor had taken us into this war we would never have been allowed to forget it. Because it was the beatified Howard who took us in it has become a footnote rather than a stain on our history, almost as if fighting a losing war for twenty years is inconsequential.

 

[schneebly1]

“Do you want me to drop this c**t?”

Nothing more than a pack of ‘roided up bogans given guns and a licence to do what they want with impunity.

The blame falls on other soldiers in the regiment too. Whilst only a minority may have committed the murders, the other soldiers were comfortable at the time in keeping it quiet. The dog handler is more concerned about his dog getting accidentally shot than a child being murdered in front of him. In the full 4 corners episode there was video footage of two SAS discussing another soldier “bashing c**ts” and “shooting kids”, and they seemed more concerned that he was doing it in front of non-regiment personnel rather than his actual crimes. They had to support him because, in their words, he was “a brother”.

Utter filth. I have zero respect for them. Only the brave few who have blown the whistle on these murderers. I’m glad Anzac Day is getting cancelled this year because these scumbags don’t deserve a f***ing thing.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

If Labor had taken us into this war we would never have been allowed to forget it. Because it was the beatified Howard who took us in it has become a footnote rather than a stain on our history, almost as if fighting a losing war for twenty years is inconsequential.

"Bowling, John..."

 

[SaltPeter]

"Bowling, John..."

To be fair, a lot professionals let loose shocking slower ball deliveries bowling the palm instead of the fingers in those days

 

[Power Raid]

Firstly, we have to thank the soldiets who released this footage and the soldier in the story who is brutally honest. They risked a lot. Truly brave soldiers.

Secondly. We Have recognise this man was probably killed because he tended wheat and Not Opium. We have to make sure that if soldier c goes down for this, so do those who sent him there, prime Minister, defence Minister ect. Soldier c was Serving his country. His leaders lied to him, lied to us. Also the investigators have to go down for this as well, as the footage is quite clear and they had access to it. They've covered this up.

And fourthly they all should be named.

Yep we should charge the prime minister at the time for this crime. She can claim she didn’t pull the trigger, but we all know she did.

 

[Power Raid]

A quarter master gunner on board a navy ship opened fire on a P&O cruiser, whilst on pirate watch.

It started with a calm balmy night, sailing dark, with a half dozen guys sprinkled across the ship to defend against a pirate attack.

The P&O cruiser sailed past about half a kilometre away, when the QMG opened fire with two rounds. I leapt up and took position beside him scanning the water between the P&O and our vessel.

Being a cloudy sky and sailing dark, I couldn’t spot a pirate vessel and with adrenaline cried “I can’t see it, I can’t see it”.

The WMG responded calmly “it’s just there”

“You mean the P&O cruiser”

“Yes”

“Why are are shooting at the P&O cruiser”

“It’s got gooks on board”

Rather than engaging into a debate about racism, I simply asked “how do you know there are hooks on board?”

“Because it’s coming from Asia”

“How do you know it’s not Australians returning from Australia?”

“Oh”




The military has a range of people in the organisation. Some amazingly brilliant, others as dumb as a box of hammers, some racist, some gun happy, some suicidal, some angry, some with a victims mentality and some who enjoy killing.

I loved my time in but the organisation is dysfunctional.

Where else could you suck your on utensil in the work place and keep your job. Where else can you shoot at a P&O cruiser and only get fined for unauthorised discharge.

Personally I would charge senior management of the ADF, the ministers of defence and the PMs at the time. These charges would be civil charges and criminal charges depending on the facts of each case.

To be clear the charges aren’t about individual crimes such as alleged but the lack of controls, culture, reporting etc that is expected by any professional organisation.

 

[Groin guru]

Nothing more than a pack of ‘roided up bogans given guns and a licence to do what they want with impunity.

Don't tear down an entire group because of a select few.

That's a piss poor thing to say about the people that put their lives on the line for our country.

Punish and say what you want about those committing terrible acts.

 

[schneebly1]

Don't tear down an entire group because of a select few.

That's a piss poor thing to say about the people that put their lives on the line for our country.

Punish and say what you want about those committing terrible acts.

Obviously didn’t read my post.

I specifically said that a minority of the SAS were committing the war crimes and murders. But I also said it was the culture of other soldiers in the regiment burying their heads in the sand, laughing about it, covering it up, failing to report it at the time, lying about what happened to commanders that contributed to a culture where some realised that their murders would go unpunished, and in the fact of BRS, rewarded with a VC. So why blow the whistle and be an outcast when you can keep quiet, support a “brother” and if you commit the same crimes you could be a VC winner too. Why bother not “dropping c**ts” when you can and even an inquiry will clear you when you blatantly lie to it.

So don’t lie about what I said. It’s this “how dare you insult our brave diggers” nonsense that creates the culture that allows these butchers get away with their crimes.

There’s no doubt now this SAS operative who blew the whistle to 4 Corners (and those who blew the whistle to 60 Minutes) have put themselves and their families in danger from reprisal from those who committed the crimes. What they did by speaking out was more courageous and vital for this nation than anything they did in Afghanistan.

And don’t drop that “can’t offend soldiers because they put their lives on the line for us” nonsense. The Afghan war was BS. Those Afghanis had no idea who or what AQ or 9/11 was, and 10 years later after 2001 when these murders occurred they simply didn’t want westerners in their country. They had no intention of ever invading Australia. Australians were the jack booted thugs shooting their kids and pets and burning their houses and kicking their fathers off cliffs (all recorded on helmet cam). Even the SAS whistle blower said on 4 Corners the Taliban, in general, weren’t as brutal as the SAS meaning the Afghani civilians ended up supporting them instead.

 

[Groin guru]

Obviously didn’t read my post.

I specifically said that a minority of the SAS were committing the war crimes and murders. But I also said it was the culture of other soldiers in the regiment burying their heads in the sand, laughing about it, covering it up, failing to report it at the time, lying about what happened to commanders that contributed to a culture where some realised that their murders would go unpunished, and in the fact of BRS, rewarded with a VC. So why blow the whistle and be an outcast when you can keep quiet, support a “brother” and if you commit the same crimes you could be a VC winner too. Why bother not “dropping c**ts” when you can and even an inquiry will clear you when you blatantly lie to it.

So don’t lie about what I said. It’s this “how dare you insult our brave diggers” nonsense that creates the culture that allows these butchers get away with their crimes.

There’s no doubt now this SAS operative who blew the whistle to 4 Corners (and those who blew the whistle to 60 Minutes) have put themselves and their families in danger from reprisal from those who committed the crimes. What they did by speaking out was more courageous and vital for this nation than anything they did in Afghanistan.

And don’t drop that “can’t offend soldiers because they put their lives on the line for us” nonsense. The Afghan war was BS. Those Afghanis had no idea who or what AQ or 9/11 was, and 10 years later after 2001 when these murders occurred they simply didn’t want westerners in their country. They had no intention of ever invading Australia. Australians were the jack booted thugs shooting their kids and pets and burning their houses and kicking their fathers off cliffs (all recorded on helmet cam). Even the SAS whistle blower said on 4 Corners the Taliban, in general, weren’t as brutal as the SAS meaning the Afghani civilians ended up supporting them instead.

Unless you've been in the SAS yourself you're just talking bullshit. You're basing your entire viewpoint off of a few whistleblowers, a video, and some hearsay.

Basically a 5-min google search and now you're claiming to know the ins and outs of an entire section of the defense force. Then you're using the knowledge attained with the benefit of hindsight to condemn soldiers that were sent to an area under direct order. Obviously condemn those that have committed heinous acts but don't spout all this drivel because you watched 4 Corners once and listened to a couple of people speak.

 

[schneebly1]

Unless you've been in the SAS yourself you're just talking bullshit. You're basing your entire viewpoint off of a few whistleblowers, a video, and some hearsay.

Basically a 5-min google search and now you're claiming to know the ins and outs of an entire section of the defense force. Then you're using the knowledge attained with the benefit of hindsight to condemn soldiers that were sent to an area under direct order. Obviously condemn those that have committed heinous acts but don't spout all this drivel because you watched 4 Corners once and listened to a couple of people speak.

I love how the “can’t insult our diggers” brigade leaps into action whenever their heroes have their feelings hurt.

I’m using harsher and more direct language but there’s nothing too dissimilar from what I’m saying and those current and former SAS whistleblowers who have openly admitted to the bad culture in the regiment are saying.

The truth hurts....

 

[Groin guru]

I love how the “can’t insult our diggers” brigade leaps into action whenever their heroes have their feelings hurt.

I’m using harsher and more direct language but there’s nothing too dissimilar from what I’m saying and those current and former SAS whistleblowers who have openly admitted to the bad culture in the regiment are saying.

The truth hurts....

I'm just highlighting that a keyboard warrior that watched a tv show once knows very little. A fair assessment.

 

[schneebly1]

I'm just highlighting that a keyboard warrior that watched a tv show once knows very little. A fair assessment.

Two TV episodes in fact that had multiple current and former SAS reveal the truth about the regiment. I guess they’re “talking bullshit” too according to your standards.

 

[Groin guru]

Two TV episodes in fact that had multiple current and former SAS reveal the truth about the regiment. I guess they’re “talking bullshit” too according to your standards.

I didn't say they were. That's only a very small subset. For all we know they could have a sour taste in their mouth after being treated poorly or having run-ins with certain members etc. A lot of variables to consider.

Painting an entire section of the armed forces because of the words of a few is silly.

 

[JackOutback]

Not only does the soldier need to go, but anyone involved in exonerating him eight years ago should be named, shamed and drummed out. This video comes from one of the other soldiers, they had it, and they cleared him of acting in self defence. They are liars and scumbags.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

A quarter master gunner on board a navy ship opened fire on a P&O cruiser, whilst on pirate watch.

It started with a calm balmy night, sailing dark, with a half dozen guys sprinkled across the ship to defend against a pirate attack.

The P&O cruiser sailed past about half a kilometre away, when the QMG opened fire with two rounds. I leapt up and took position beside him scanning the water between the P&O and our vessel.

Being a cloudy sky and sailing dark, I couldn’t spot a pirate vessel and with adrenaline cried “I can’t see it, I can’t see it”.

The WMG responded calmly “it’s just there”

“You mean the P&O cruiser”

“Yes”

“Why are are shooting at the P&O cruiser”

“It’s got gooks on board”

Rather than engaging into a debate about racism, I simply asked “how do you know there are hooks on board?”

“Because it’s coming from Asia”

“How do you know it’s not Australians returning from Australia?”

“Oh”




The military has a range of people in the organisation. Some amazingly brilliant, others as dumb as a box of hammers, some racist, some gun happy, some suicidal, some angry, some with a victims mentality and some who enjoy killing.

I loved my time in but the organisation is dysfunctional.

Where else could you suck your on utensil in the work place and keep your job. Where else can you shoot at a P&O cruiser and only get fined for unauthorised discharge.

Personally I would charge senior management of the ADF, the ministers of defence and the PMs at the time. These charges would be civil charges and criminal charges depending on the facts of each case.

To be clear the charges aren’t about individual crimes such as alleged but the lack of controls, culture, reporting etc that is expected by any professional organisation.

A couple of things. Sas are the most heavily trained soldiers we have. They are trained to only use force when absolutely neccisary. They are predomitley a reconisance and intelligence gathering unit who also specialise in sabotage and search and rescue. I get what you're saying but.


Secondly, every prime minister from the moment we illegally invaded that country to steal the land of wheat farmers and grow opium. Not just gun happy Gillard but also jack boot johnny and ridiculous rudd, as wel As torys bitch Tony and Mrs malcolm. Then there's every editor of every paper who job it is to report facts and they knowingly printed lies that lead to a once proud military now disgraced all over the world.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Don't tear down an entire group because of a select few.

That's a piss poor thing to say about the people that put their lives on the line for our country.

Punish and say what you want about those committing terrible acts.

You make some good points but your whole argument falls apart when you claim they were doing it for our country

This is the age of information, ignorance is not an excuse.

The wheat farmer murdered was no danger to any of us, accept our wheat farmers who would lose export markets if we didn't steal the wheat lands and replace it with Opium, opium that pharmaceutical companies needed so badly. They did for multi nationals not us. Until we recognise this point. More good Australians will be turned into assassins.

 

[Power Raid]

A couple of things. Sas are the most heavily trained soldiers we have. They are trained to only use force when absolutely neccisary. They are predomitley a reconisance and intelligence gathering unit who also specialise in sabotage and search and rescue. I get what you're saying but.


Secondly, every prime minister from the moment we illegally invaded that country to steal the land of wheat farmers and grow opium. Not just gun happy Gillard but also jack boot johnny and ridiculous rudd, as wel As torys bitch Tony and Mrs malcolm. Then there's every editor of every paper who job it is to report facts and they knowingly printed lies that lead to a once proud military now disgraced all over the world.

Hear hear

We have criminal penalties for deaths in the work place for civilians

There is no reasonable reason why politicians exclude themselves and director generals from the same legislation

 

[Power Raid]

Don't tear down an entire group because of a select few.

That's a piss poor thing to say about the people that put their lives on the line for our country.

Punish and say what you want about those committing terrible acts.

This may be because of a select few by assessing from action however it is cultural meaning the issue is widespread

Add up all the issues rather than just looking at one and we will see a deep problem

 

[Groin guru]

You make some good points but your whole argument falls apart when you claim they were doing it for our country

This is the age of information, ignorance is not an excuse.

The wheat farmer murdered was no danger to any of us, accept our wheat farmers who would lose export markets if we didn't steal the wheat lands and replace it with Opium, opium that pharmaceutical companies needed so badly. They did for multi nationals not us. Until we recognise this point. More good Australians will be turned into assassins.

Hence why I said "punish those that commit terrible acts" - I never excused the actions in that video and nor would I. All involved deserve to be punished.

So the soldiers can go and do some researching on a computer before they go out on a mission? "hold up sarge, just doing some research to see whether or not this mission is ethically sound." Even harder to do if they are in another country.

It's their job to follow orders. If they don't they risk being sent to the DFCE and/or kicked out. They need to trust that they are being given the right orders. If they don't trust that they risk their lives and the people in their team. If those orders are incorrect it needs to go up the chain of command and see what went wrong and whether or not that person is liable.

 

[Power Raid]

Not only does the soldier need to go, but anyone involved in exonerating him eight years ago should be named, shamed and drummed out. This video comes from one of the other soldiers, they had it, and they cleared him of acting in self defence. They are liars and scumbags.

the military focuses on the wrong thing

rape, falsely reporting rape, murder, suicide etc is errmmmm........to hard to deal with

8 minutes early (charged for being 2 minutes late), hair touches your collar, boots not polished of uniform not ironed.........watch out



s**t leadership and s**t management systems

 

[Boston tiger]

the military focuses on the wrong thing

rape, falsely reporting rape, murder, suicide etc is errmmmm........to hard to deal with

8 minutes early (charged for being 2 minutes late), hair touches your collar, boots not polished of uniform not ironed.........watch out



s**t leadership and s**t management systems

It’s a job where you get shot at. So where do you start with that. Health and safety ?

 

[woota]

It’s a job where you get shot at. So where do you start with that. Health and safety ?

The vast, vast majority of roles within the australian defence force in this day and age do not involve getting shot at (with the SAS being an obvious exception).