Toast Is Tom Hawkins the Best All-Round Forward in the AFL Right Now?

[Kram]

Fev was a superb player

I named my cat Fev he was that good.

 

[Damon_3388]

Well, there's an asterisk to that given Geelong have played two extra games.

He's leading the averages, in goals and goal assists.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

He's leading the averages, in goals and goal assists.

What's your point?

I don't dispute that he'd be in the team currently.

 

[Predator35]

 

[Sweet Jesus]

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What are people meant to be looking at champ?

 

[BF Tiger]

J Riewoldt?

Please.

More goals, more Colemans, more AAs, less brain farts.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Hawkins was a beast..great to see strength like that

is*

He's probably in career best form right now. It's not the bags he's kicking but hes doing everything you want in a Tall forward, and very well. He's the in-form forward as stated

Disagree with some of the flog comments saying hes the best forward in 10-15 years however.

 

[HaroLad]

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Goals as a simple statistic do not prove entirely the worth of a forward. This is why Tom is so underrated.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Richo, Roughead, Fev

Thank you for mentioning Roughead

2011 he looked like he was about to break out as a Mini Richo, being able to play anywhere on the field and being a true utility, before his achillies, to come back and be a freak during 13-15, I have no Doubt he had another 2-3 absolute elite seasons in him and his chemo at that age probably robbed him, as you could see his body was shot in 2018 and by 2019 he was struggling to even back it up in the VFL.

He still got to some heights no footballer gets to., Legend

Richo as well. Absolute stud in some woeful Richmond teams which punished him and people just thought of him as an emotional talented but flawed forward. When he was released onto the wing he absolutely ran his opponents down into the dirt. being 10 kilos heavier then them

 

[PhatBoy]

More goals, more Colemans, more AAs, less brain farts.

And?

 

[BF Tiger]

Factoring in injuries and their career arc, I'd say Hawkins has had longer, more consistent production (8 straight years and counting of 90 marks/45 goals/15 goal assists, something JK and Jack have never achieved at any stage), that looks like it could continue for a while yet.

JR had 9 straight seasons of 48+ goals and 102+ marks. Only two of those seasons did he have less than 18 goal assists.

 

[wilsonmatic]

Another dumb ass thread title.. He kicked a big bag of goals last night.. So the answer is of course he is 'right now.'

 

[W.C. Fry]

Hawkins shits on Kennedy this year.

 

[Damon_3388]

What's your point?

I don't dispute that he'd be in the team currently.

Well, leading the averages too takes the "Geelong have played two extra games" "asterisk" away, I would think. It's not just a case leading the totals because he's played more games than other contenders.

 

[Damon_3388]

JR had 9 straight seasons of 48+ goals and 102+ marks. Only two of those seasons did he have less than 18 goal assists.

I'm aware of that, but I think the consistent combo I mentioned in so many consecutive years, likely to continue for at least one more season, is just as if not moreso impressive.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

He is having a very good year and been one of the backbones of a consistantly high standard hard to beat Geelong team for a decade or more so good on him.

My strongest memory of Hawkins was a night game at subi where the Eagles had a run on and Hawkins countered by leaping for a mark and landing on his head and it then took the medicos about 15 minutes to remove his unconscious carcass from the field thus stopping the Eagles run on.Very much a team orientated player.

I've seen this more than once on here from West Coast supporters. This was also known as the night the umpires went full... with the deliberate out of bounds rule. The night J. Selwood was laughably reported for some backyard tomfoolery with his brother.

And if by 'Eagles run on', you're referring to the Eagles kicking the first two of the match, then one of the next five, before Hawkins went down and the Cats kicked another before the end of the first quarter (making it five goals out of six to the Cats and five goals to three at quarter time), then yes, that's the run on that the Cats were desperate to stop at any cost. You can look it up if you want.

Obviously vivid memories of what went on that night.

Edit: should have added that Geelong also kicked the goal before Hawkins was concussed. Some run on by West Coast. I really don't get it. The Eagles won that night fair and square. Why their supporters feel the need to flat out invent stuff is beyond me.

 

[Damon_3388]

Another dumb ass thread title.. He kicked a big bag of goals last night.. So the answer is of course he is 'right now.'

Is it really that "dumb"? Who are the other contenders right now? Who are the other contenders over the last 2-3 years? Body of work from 2018-present, I'd say Hawkins is the best key forward in the game right now.

Surely it's obvious it's not based on one game, but having one of your career-best performances at age 32, in the midst of years of great form, will prompt people to consider the player's standing in the game.

 

[theyellowsash]

I'd go a step further and say he's the greatest full forward of all time if you only include last night's game.

Of all forwards to have played in the history of last night's game, Hawkins is by far the best it's not even close

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Well, leading the averages too takes the "Geelong have played two extra games" "asterisk" away, I would think.

Not if someone is making the specific argument that he's kicked the most goals.

By emphasising averages instead, you would be making a different argument to that.

 

[My Tilly]

Be nice if Hawkins could produce this kind of form in the finals.

 

[Scotland]

Been great this year, but he's a 2.2 goal a game H&A player and a 1.5 goal a game finals player. Kennedy who he was compared to ITT is 2.5 and 2.3. Kennedy has copped plenty of criticism for kicking big bags of goals against weaker sides in Perth, but Hawkins regularly feasts on the ordinary teams Geelong normally play at KP.

QF last year, 0.4. SF 4.1 then suspended for the prelim for a dumb act. His team lost a close one and Tom Lynch kicked 5 for the Tigers.
2017 3 goals in 3 finals.
2016 2 goals in the QF win, 1 in the prelim loss.
2014 had a big game in the SF loss, 2013 didn't do much.

Whether it is his fault or not he mirrors his team a bit. Much better in the H&A season than finals. Kicking 5 and 7 in two 10 goal wins is great, but if the finals started tomorrow would he impose himself on a hard fought 10 goals vs 9 goals game?

 

[Duskfire]

Kennedy and Riewoldt are probably better, but I think one thing Hawkins should be lauded on is how much he has evolved to suit the modern game. It would have been easy for him to continue doing as he did and eventually get phased out. But he has altered and is still such an important part of Geelongs game still.

Reminds me a little of Matthew Richardson. Not in the literal sense, but as another big forward who evolved and produced amazing football in the twilight of his career because of that.

 

[And_ROOS]

Noticing assists aren't being thrown around in these figures, which are pretty important too.
For example, Kennedy has 635 goals, but only 132 assists for a total of 767 goals in total.
Hawkins has 584 goals, but 219 assists, for a total of 803 goals.
And that ignores the fact that Hawkins gifted 2 assists last night, but that guys like Sam Simpson missed his shot meaning even assists don't tell the full story.
Over their careers Hawkins has also had over 100 more score involvements.
Hawkins over his career has had a better overall average as a player, gets less frees for meaning he gets less shots at goal under no pressure, has done more one percenters over their careers, takes the ruck in the forwardline that results in goals directly or indirectly, has averaged more disposals, has a higher disposal efficiency, is better on the ground, takes more marks inside 50 and takes more contested marks and marks on the lead.

Hawkins shits on Kennedy this year, but over their careers (Kennedy debuted a year earlier than Hawkins) Hawkins has been the superior player. His only redeeming quality is he has 50 more goals than Hawkins, who offsets that by having 87 more assists.

And importantly, in Hawkins worst Grand Final performance, he still managed to kick 2 goals and take a good defender. In Kennedys worst Grand Final performance, he was statistically similar to Hawkins but couldn't hit the scoreboard and was a traffic cone.
But in their best Grand Final matches, Hawkins dominated once Podsiadly went off injured early and was a key in turning what was a tight match for 3 quarters before Geelong ran away with it. Kennedy wasn't even in the best 5 players on the field, only really had a great 3rd quarter, and had WCE lost to Collingwood they would be talking about how Kennedy and Darling can't handle GF pressure instead of Dom Sheed and Shuey carrying the team and Collingwood bottling a 5 goal lead.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Been great this year, but he's a 2.2 goal a game H&A player and a 1.5 goal a game finals player. Kennedy who he was compared to ITT is 2.5 and 2.3. Kennedy has copped plenty of criticism for kicking big bags of goals against weaker sides in Perth, but Hawkins regularly feasts on the ordinary teams Geelong normally play at KP.

QF last year, 0.4. SF 4.1 then suspended for the prelim for a dumb act. His team lost a close one and Tom Lynch kicked 5 for the Tigers.
2017 3 goals in 3 finals.
2016 2 goals in the QF win, 1 in the prelim loss.
2014 had a big game in the SF loss, 2013 didn't do much.

Whether it is his fault or not he mirrors his team a bit. Much better in the H&A season than finals. Kicking 5 and 7 in two 10 goal wins is great, but if the finals started tomorrow would he impose himself on a hard fought 10 goals vs 9 goals game?

I stand to be corrected, but it always seems like when he's in the mix for the Coleman and we're pencilling him in for a big bag against a cellar dweller, you can almost guarantee he won't play to the script. I'll have a look back, but I'm 95% sure the last few rounds of 2018 were a classic example of this. I know it's easy to say, but you could be forgiven for thinking if the result isn't in doubt, he goes out of his way to show his teammates that things like the Coleman mean nothing to him.

And that's not really praise for him. Many, many times in his career, I think Geelong would have ultimately been better served by him being a bit more selfish. But that's how he's wired, his ideal game would probably be a 10 goal win where everyone in the team kicks one goal.

 

[Scotland]

Even though they are physically quite different Hawkins reminds me a bit of Jack Gunston. Both great goal kickers (Gunston has an excellent finals record) but their performances ebb and flow with their team rather than being the driving force.

Carey is the ultimate benchmark for a key forward because even though we could match North across the ground and had the best 1 on 1 match up for him he was still never out of the game.