List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

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Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread
 
Last edited:
I'm a bit confused by the fact that we now have four vacant senior list spots, given the picks we have seemed to be geared around pick 25 and matching a bid for Coleman.
Could they be keeping their options open if something happens on draft night?
Could we still only take two players on national draft night, and then after that move two more players to the rookie list, so we have 36 senior listed players and 6 cat A rookies? Are you allowed to rookie senior-listed players after the draft...?
 
brizrider said:
'Cedric Cox and Mitch Hinge have been delisted' as the very last line felt a bit flat and cold
Click to expand...

I read an article saying Hinge was offered a spot but declined? Hes going to Adelaide as a DFA.
 
jonnobackpocket said:
Let me get this right- you would rather 34 year old Martin, Witho and Hinge (both who could not get a game) on the list rather than Joe Daniher and Cockatoo? So do you want a crack at the flag or a good culture (even though it appears our players could not be happier) and less talent on the list?
Click to expand...
34 year old Stef had to go, or one year contract at the most. Have to blood some of the young guys
Witho was arguably on too much money for apparently not best 22 (because of Birchall? or better player in Ah Chee), so no doubt there are salary cap issues, with upgrades no doubt to Rayner, Starc, Bailey, Harris signing multi year contract, Daniher signing etc etc.

Hinge, I thought was a little unlucky. Hard for us to make a call on his ability after a handful of AFL games, and I am a little critical that the club could not have given him a couple more games during the past two years, but at least he has gone back to his home state for greater opportunities. Wish him all the best!

Probably morale would be good for the regular first graders (opportunity to play final footy, virtually guaranteed to be picked each week, most on good to very good salaries), not sure how happy some of the fringe players might feel who can't get an opportunity. And then, there are those such as Wooller and Lyons who could not get one AFL game in 3 and 4 years and get delisted, understandably they might not feel too pleased. I am no expert, but I thought Wooller deserved a couple of AFL games in 2019 when his NEAFL form was good and Rayners AFL form was poor.
 

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Lifelong Lion said:
I'm a bit confused by the fact that we now have four vacant senior list spots, given the picks we have seemed to be geared around pick 25 and matching a bid for Coleman.
Could they be keeping their options open if something happens on draft night?
Could we still only take two players on national draft night, and then after that move two more players to the rookie list, so we have 36 senior listed players and 6 cat A rookies? Are you allowed to rookie senior-listed players after the draft...?
Click to expand...

We might keep a spot open for mid-season draft even. Who knows.
 
Dylan12 said:
Even before Daniher joined Brisbane, I know people at the club who weren't at all complimentary of his attitude and unprofessional work ethic, particularly off-field when it came to rehabilitation and do everything it took to get back on-field.

I'm genuinely surprised that we'd even contemplate such a character.

On Cockatoo, sure we may get back on the park as we did with McCarthy, but to me at least, it just reeks of another continual roll of the dice that is going to catch us out at some point with limited list sizes. We are already unnecessarily carrying Adams and we potentially will be with Daniher and Cockatoo.
Click to expand...

Another continual roll of the dice. LOOK AT ADAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See, that's what I'm talking about.

So, lets just ignore the fact we have a virtually non existent soft tissue injury list compared to where the club was five or six years ago.

And while we're at it, lets also ignore the fact that ASIDE FROM ADAMS, every recruit with a significant injury that we've taken on board has played considerable game time. More than enough to warrant their respective trades (which, due to their injury history, would be considered to be under true value).

Your arguments are about as strong as a wet paper bag.

But I think my favourite bit of your post was when you started judging someone's character. That was the pièce de résistance
 
Ralphy2017 said:
34 year old Stef had to go, or one year contract at the most. Have to blood some of the young guys
Witho was arguably on too much money for apparently not best 22 (because of Birchall? or better player in Ah Chee), so no doubt there are salary cap issues, with upgrades no doubt to Rayner, Starc, Bailey, Harris signing multi year contract, Daniher signing etc etc.

Hinge, I thought was a little unlucky. Hard for us to make a call on his ability after a handful of AFL games, and I am a little critical that the club could not have given him a couple more games during the past two years, but at least he has gone back to his home state for greater opportunities. Wish him all the best!

Probably morale would be good for the regular first graders (opportunity to play final footy, virtually guaranteed to be picked each week, most on good to very good salaries), not sure how happy some of the fringe players might feel who can't get an opportunity. And then, there are those such as Wooller and Lyons who could not get one AFL game in 3 and 4 years and get delisted, understandably they might not feel too pleased. I am no expert, but I thought Wooller deserved a couple of AFL games in 2019 when his NEAFL form was good and Rayners AFL form was poor.
Click to expand...
Witho had a couple of players in front of him because they are better footballers. Hinge maybe a little unlucky but he chose to go, we offered him a year. Not having a crack who would you have played Hinge in front of from our team this year. Maybe Wooller and Lyons not pleased but what do we do- play them so they are pleased? We pick our best team every week to win- that’s the game. Maybe they are pleased we gave them a chance? Who knows. No other teams picked them up that’s a pretty good indicator I would think.
 
iBeng said:
I read an article saying Hinge was offered a spot but declined? Hes going to Adelaide as a DFA.
Click to expand...
From memory, Hinge had a history with Noble....I think Noble knows his parents well (I remember reading something to that effect). Noble leaving would have made the decision easier.
 
So. Trade period is over. And yet the club still trades. Hinge is good depth, and showed a few things, but even if he managed to become a first team regular, he was never going to be a star. At Adelaide should get a real shot at the first team and hopefully make a career for himself.

Meanwhile, we all know the rookie list is irrelevant. Apparently, now trade period is irrelevant as well. Clearly a trade in our favour in exchange for Hinge. Even afl.com.au did everything except spell it out.

-----
"Hinge, we'll give you a year, but if you would rather, we can facilitate you going to Adelaide".
"Adelaide have offered me 2 years, and I'll have a better shot at regular playing time, so I think that's best".
"Fair enough. Leave it with us."
-----
"Adelaide, we were serious about offering Mitch a year, but haven't lodged a contract so we can still delist him. Future fourth and he walks to you guys without an issue."
"Deal."
-----

Sneak peek to next week:
Josh Dunkley gets delisted by the bulldogs. The bulldogs do a pick swap with Essendon to swap 8x R6 picks for 2x R1 picks. The AFL agree that it all looks to be above board.
 
You can understand Hinge going he get more games at the crows.
Problem depth.. Do you want to stay and play seconds.

interesting now depth Daniher took Martins spot
Cockatoo you put in say CEY spot from Prelim
we left fringe who played games Answerth, Matho, CEY and Adams. Unless I missed someone.
Smith break glass in case Big O goes down.
Then youngsters who played under few games like T Berry, Ballenden, Coleman, Dev and Fullarton.
We have a lot of kids not got a game which we must rate.
 
Tom14 said:
Couldn't disagree more with this piece but I don't think it is poorly written or anything - it just drastically overrates Witherden and Stef Martin of this year:

www.statsinsider.com.au

Will The Brisbane Lions' Tame Off-Season Come Back To Bite Them?

Footy is relevant in Brisbane again, and the Lions are building something undeniably special. Yet in comparison with their Finals brethren, there was something rather hollow about their approach to this year’s trade period.
www.statsinsider.com.au www.statsinsider.com.au
Click to expand...
GAAAHH SmartSelect_20201125-180216_Chrome.jpeg
 
Been a couple of ordinary weeks for us.

I had hopes that Hinge would be the real improver in 2021 but perfectly understand why he would move back to Adelaide.

Now that we're in contention our trade moves and the list comes under a lot more scrutiny so unsurprisingly we're going to cop criticism and it's up to the guys we've brought in to put that to rest.

As far as Daniher goes I'm sure you'll find he'd had enough of the Bombers after the drug scandal and he's fairly motivated to prove his critics wrong in his time with us. He hasn't had much footy at all so we've got a lot of work to do to get him going but the signs last year when he did play were good enough.

Anyone who says on balance that he's not a massive improvement on what we've had there doesn't know footy.
 

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martinson said:
Been a couple of ordinary weeks for us.

I had hopes that Hinge would be the real improver in 2021 but perfectly understand why he would move back to Adelaide.

Now that we're in contention our trade moves and the list comes under a lot more scrutiny so unsurprisingly we're going to cop criticism and it's up to the guys we've brought in to put that to rest.

As far as Daniher goes I'm sure you'll find he'd had enough of the Bombers after the drug scandal and he's fairly motivated to prove his critics wrong in his time with us. He hasn't had much footy at all so we've got a lot of work to do to get him going but the signs last year when he did play were good enough.

Anyone who says on balance that he's not a massive improvement on what we've had there doesn't know footy.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your post but can you clarify the first sentence a little further?
 
SizeMatters said:
Fullerton is rated. Lacks the required footy IQ currently, and as you stated some physicality aspects. Club sees him as a long term prospect and are bullish on him. Don't be surprised if he pushes McStay out of his current role by mid year... FYI.
Click to expand...

Can see Adams doing that, pushing McStay out.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
spotthedog1 said:
sneak peek to next week:
Josh Dunkley gets delisted by the bulldogs. The bulldogs do a pick swap with Essendon to swap 8x R6 picks for 2x R1 picks. The AFL agree that it all looks to be above board.
Click to expand...


8 picks for 2 Bombers would be getting reamed. Dogs would need to throw in a couple of round 2 picks at least
 
martinson said:
Been a couple of ordinary weeks for us.

I had hopes that Hinge would be the real improver in 2021 but perfectly understand why he would move back to Adelaide.

Now that we're in contention our trade moves and the list comes under a lot more scrutiny so unsurprisingly we're going to cop criticism and it's up to the guys we've brought in to put that to rest.

As far as Daniher goes I'm sure you'll find he'd had enough of the Bombers after the drug scandal and he's fairly motivated to prove his critics wrong in his time with us. He hasn't had much footy at all so we've got a lot of work to do to get him going but the signs last year when he did play were good enough.

Anyone who says on balance that he's not a massive improvement on what we've had there doesn't know footy.
Click to expand...

Don't understand how you can say that:

a) Before he even plays a game for us.
b) In 2020 our forward line was the 2nd most potent forward line in the comp. (Above Richmond.)
c) I've played over 300 games/coached for several years & was president of a community club for 5 years. Suffice to say, I think I know a bit about footy and I would not make such a bold statement as above until I see them get on the stage & do it.
 
Mighty Lions said:
Don't understand how you can say that:

a) Before he even plays a game for us.
b) In 2020 our forward line was the 2nd most potent forward line in the comp. (Above Richmond.)
c) I've played over 300 games/coached for several years & was president of a community club for 5 years. Suffice to say, I think I know a bit about footy and I would not make such a bold statement as above until I see them get on the stage & do it.
Click to expand...

That's a decent CV Mighty Lions , well done. I had you penciled in (obviously wrongly) as an orange cutter or water boy. The Lions version of a Bobby Boucher.
 
jonnobackpocket said:
Witho had a couple of players in front of him because they are better footballers. Hinge maybe a little unlucky but he chose to go, we offered him a year. Not having a crack who would you have played Hinge in front of from our team this year. Maybe Wooller and Lyons not pleased but what do we do- play them so they are pleased? We pick our best team every week to win- that’s the game. Maybe they are pleased we gave them a chance? Who knows. No other teams picked them up that’s a pretty good indicator I would think.
Click to expand...
Could argue Wooller possibly a victim of no formal reserve comp this year and cut in list sizes, thought mid last year he was worth a game. Lyons I never rated, but when Lions finished 18th in 2017 and 15th in 2018 might have been a chance to play Lyons in a game. Certainly can understand why he did not get a game the last two seasons.
I don't know what the communication is like from within the club, but how do you think McStay might feel IF he is not in best 22 because of a new signing such as Daniher? How did Witho feel after signing a contract extension, buying a house in Brissy and then seeing the club sign Ah Chee and Birchall and being overlooked? Hopefully the club helped facilitate the trade. It is a ruthless business, and understand the need to continually improve the list, and the best 22 being picked on merit, but I believe that has not always been the case in the past two years.
Robertson and Ely, first round selections in past two drafts, could imagine that one or both of them probably thought they would play a few games by now, but challenging for coaches as the team is regularly winning.
I don't know what the culture is like in the club, but suspect it is reasonably strong, but also believe there are a few disappointed fringe players.
 
Mighty Lions said:
Don't understand how you can say that:

a) Before he even plays a game for us.
b) In 2020 our forward line was the 2nd most potent forward line in the comp. (Above Richmond.)
c) I've played over 300 games/coached for several years & was president of a community club for 5 years. Suffice to say, I think I know a bit about footy and I would not make such a bold statement as above until I see them get on the stage & do it.
Click to expand...
This if BigFooty. We're all certified experts.
 
Derek Eggmolesse-Smith might be a good option to take Hinges spot
 
That article is bogus analysis. The 9 players who are inside the stats insider top 250, which we are the second least represented in the league, are:
Neale
Andrews
Rich
Lyons
Cameron
McCluggage
Zorko
Adams
JBerry

The next guys are :
Martin (rank 180)
Witherden (219)
Christensen (267)
then
Ah Chee (273)
Gardiner (276)
Rayner (283)
Lester (290)
McInerney (292)
Hipwood (294)

followed by:
Bailey (316)
Daniher (320)
Answerth (324)
McCarthy (335)
Ellis-Yolmen (364)
Mcstay (368)
Birchall (400)
Cox (412)
Robinson (417)
Cockatoo (422)
Starcevich (478)
Mathieson (551)
ASmith (560)
Allison (569)
Skinner (622)
Eagles (630)
Payne (642)
Ballenden (675)
TBerry (683)
Fullarton (689)
Hinge (695)

There are 703 in total. Interestingly if we had've somehow brought in Jake Waterman (501), Brandan Parfitt (251), Sam Draper (460) we'd still be the second least represented in the league. We still would've missed out if we had've lucked out and brought in Zac Smith (256, lol), Isaac Quaynor (278) and Max King (583)
 
I heard weeks ago that there are three or four young guys that the club seriously expects to step up big time next year.

The comment was along the lines of expect one or more to do a Starc and be in the 22 early, and become a regular fixture through the year.

One I am sure is Dev, Prior could also be one, and maybe T.Berry.

The club knows far more than what we do about how players are tracking, and whilst losing some players is a part of how things turn out, the key is in retaining the ones that are actually rated higher internally than those going by the club.


As for the draft, we are not necessarily done yet.

Melbournes 1st round next year could still come into play in a trade to grab a slider or someone we really rate without having to jeopardize our current high pick if a bid does come on Coleman early....
 
jackess said:
Derek Eggmolesse-Smith might be a good option to take Hinges spot
Click to expand...

That's a surprising delisting.
 
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