Rules The new man on the mark rule is utterly ridiculous.

[mxett]

Richmond just play football. Maximum pressure. Create a turn over and then take the ball forward fast and score. I'm 54 and thats how the game has been played forever. Get the ball, take it forward and score. It's not Richmond's fault, other clubs just need to work out how to stop it without ruining the game as a spectacle. If they applied the same principle you'd have two teams using high pressure to get the ball, then attack and score which is the exact spectacle we want to see. Not teams crapping their dacks and flooding their backline because they don't know what else to do except turn it into a low scoring slog.

The coaches know the most successful way to control opposition scoring is to outnumber them around and behind the ball. So expect coaches to introduce these tactics against the tigers at extreme levels

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Richmond just play football. Maximum pressure. Create a turn over and then take the ball forward fast and score. I'm 54 and thats how the game has been played forever. Get the ball, take it forward and score. It's not Richmond's fault, other clubs just need to work out how to stop it without ruining the game as a spectacle. If they applied the same principle you'd have two teams using high pressure to get the ball, then attack and score which is the exact spectacle we want to see. Not teams crapping their dacks and flooding their backline because they don't know what else to do except turn it into a low scoring slog.

Haha. All teams do do it! That's the whole problem. Richmond just maintain it for longer.
I totally disagree with this bit:

"If they applied the same principle you'd have two teams using high pressure to get the ball, then attack and score.."

When all teams focus on defence amd pressure which involves 5 on 5 contests all over the ground, which is what literally happens, you end up with a hideous scrum of a game.

That's why the AFL has spent the past few years trying to change it so it's watchable again!

 

[YeOldTiger]

The coaches know the most successful way to control opposition scoring is to outnumber them around and behind the ball. So expect coaches to introduce these tactics against the tigers at extreme levels

Which is my point exactly. It isn't Richmond clogging up games. Richmond try to score basically at all times they have the ball.

 

[mxett]

Yeh go back and read the bit about the postage stamp. You're on a small island. I get that people hate a team being dominant, I've hated that in the past too and that's fine, hate away but to say Richmond's style isn't an exciting spectacle shows you have no idea what you're talking about imo.

I can see what he's talking about though. Richmond have recruited and developed a side for pressure as the primary strategy. Out pressure the opposition for maximum turnovers and mistakes. It's successful, but the outcomes are limited to: 1. The games is full of mistakes and errors because the pressure around the ball is too great for either team to get a clean link of possessions, or 2. the tigers get through the congestion and outscore the opposition.

Either way it's a complete mess with a few breakout run and scores depending on how well the opposition can match the tiger's pressure

 

[mxett]

Which is my point exactly. It isn't Richmond clogging up games. Richmond try to score basically at all times they have the ball.

no, they do it too. In fact they just do it better than other clubs and capitalise on the mistakes

 

[HPKS]

I'm not tally against requiring 3 players from each team in the forward and defensive 50's at all times. Would be interesting to see the effect on the game

yeh like I said I’ll judge it when I see it. I like the idea though of it only for kick ins and throw ins so it doesn’t effect the player being allowed to go for the ball. I’d hate to see a player standing there watching the ball and being unable to go get it. It just would force sides to keep players around that zone so then it’s 6 less players near the ball say on the edge of the half forward flank. It could lead to less congestion but like I’ve said I’d like to see it before I say I like it. In theory it could work but hey we’ll see in a few weeks.

 

[YeOldTiger]

Haha. All teams do do it! That's the whole problem. Richmond just maintain it for longer.
I totally disagree with this bit:

"If they applied the same principle you'd have two teams using high pressure to get the ball, then attack and score.."

When all teams focus on defence amd pressure which involves 5 on 5 contests all over the ground, which is what literally happens, you end up with a hideous scrum of a game.

That's why the AFL has spent the past few years trying to change it so it's watchable again!

Seriously, wake up. The AFL are trying to get more scoring under pressure from their broadcaster. Lol

Some of the best games of football are low scoring, high pressure thrillers. If you just want to watch shootout after shootout with the ball going end to end with no pressure, go watch AFLX. What a dud flop that turned out to be.

 

[BF Tiger]

Nonsense. Richmond are putrid to watch.

They are the worst offenders when it comes to clogging up the game and slowing it up.

It becomes a skillless mess. Fortunately for them and the general public, they have Dusty and Edwards to add some polish and interest.

It’s boring as batshit to watch apart from when Martin get off the leash. Congest it in the back half, put a forward in the midfield, open up the forward half and get it out as quick as possible.Union without the offside.

happy for them to win 3out of 4 as they are mums side and I thought she’d never get to see another premiership in here life but let’s not pretend they’re exciting to watch.

Have you guys even watched Richmond? We're not the Bulldogs implementing a different gameplan to beat Essendon in a one-off match like they did in 2000. What the Tigers have done is to introduce a system that stands up against all-comers, across multiple years, in differing conditions and with players moving through. That doesn't happen if the said players and team are unskilled.

Fact is three out of four flags says anything but unskilled. Best W-L ratio across four seasons says anything but unskilled. Points for and points against are possibly in the best few for each individual season (I have not checked), and possibly the best across all four seasons combined (again I have not checked) - how is that unskilled?

System stands up in finals football, going 10-2 across 17-18-19-20. You'd think if it was unskilled other sides would have worked it out in time for the pointy end of the season.

 

[mxett]

Haha. All teams do do it! That's the whole problem. Richmond just maintain it for longer.
I totally disagree with this bit:

"If they applied the same principle you'd have two teams using high pressure to get the ball, then attack and score.."

When all teams focus on defence amd pressure which involves 5 on 5 contests all over the ground, which is what literally happens, you end up with a hideous scrum of a game.

That's why the AFL has spent the past few years trying to change it so it's watchable again!

reminds me of a bombers v hawks game a few years ago. It was basically played in the middle 100mtres of the ground. There was so much congestion and pressure applied by both teams on the ball carrier neither club could string more than a few possessions together. Neither club scored. It was a dumpster fire of a game that I can never 'un-watch'.

When pressure is the number one tactic, and one team's pressure matches the other's, the games is a snooze-fest

 

[mxett]

Seriously, wake up. The AFL are trying to get more scoring under pressure from their broadcaster. Lol

Some of the best games of football are low scoring, high pressure thrillers. If you just want to watch shootout after shootout with the ball going end to end with no pressure, go watch AFLX. What a dud flop that turned out to be.

nope. The AFL are reacting to declining TV ratings. Sure, that also punishes revenue. But when fans are dropping off because the game has become an ugly, win at all costs, mess, they are right to listen and react

 

[BF Tiger]

Seriously, wake up. The AFL are trying to get more scoring under pressure from their broadcaster. Lol

Some of the best games of football are low scoring, high pressure thrillers. If you just want to watch shootout after shootout with the ball going end to end with no pressure, go watch AFLX. What a dud flop that turned out to be.

This exactly.

What the AFL are doing runs the risk of better sides scoring more while weaker sides don't. Suddenly there is a blowout between two teams I'm not particularly interested in and I'm off to bed or starting a movie at half-time on a Friday night. Keep the game close but with low scores and I'm watching until the very end.

 

[YeOldTiger]

I can see what he's talking about though. Richmond have recruited and developed a side for pressure as the primary strategy. Out pressure the opposition for maximum turnovers and mistakes. It's successful, but the outcomes are limited to: 1. The games is full of mistakes and errors because the pressure around the ball is too great for either team to get a clean link of possessions, or 2. the tigers get through the congestion and outscore the opposition.

Either way it's a complete mess with a few breakout run and scores depending on how well the opposition can match the tiger's pressure

Ok. I will have a chat with Dimma and tell him to back the pressure off a bit because it's Richmond's fault. Lol

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Yeh go back and read the bit about the postage stamp. You're on a small island. I get that people hate a team being dominant, I've hated that in the past too and that's fine, hate away but to say Richmond's style isn't an exciting spectacle shows you have no idea what you're talking about imo.

What you're seeing as boring is only one team trying to clog the game up and it ain't Richmond. Richmond try to score at every opportunity. Even deep in defence they just take off seeing every time they get the ball as a scoring opportunity. I don't know what you're watching.

You're missing the point.

All teams clog up the game.

Hardwick stated that he values tackling skills over kicking skills when recruiting. That says it all.

All teams do it. Richmond games are so painful to sit through because they are able to sustain the defensive pressure and flooding of the contests for longer and are better at it.

The game opens up in the last 5 minutes of each quarter when Richmond crack the opposition, and people seem to associate this with 'exciting footy'. They forget that the previous 20 minutes has been dogshit.


I'm an avid MMA fan, and love the UFC - but when top grade wrestlers come in and lie on blokes for 3 rounds, they stop getting the big fights. Win or lose, people don't want to watch it.

The UFC don't change the rules of MMA, they instead facilitate the offence over defence by not giving these guys big fights.

 

[mxett]

This exactly.

What the AFL are doing runs the risk of better sides scoring more while weaker sides don't. Suddenly there is a blowout between two teams I'm not particularly interested in and I'm off to bed or starting a movie at half-time on a Friday night. Keep the game close but with low scores and I'm watching until the very end.

a steady decline in TV ratings over a number of seasons suggests many fans are less than happy with games full of low-scoring fumbling mistakes due to over-crowding and pressure

 

[HPKS]

Have you guys even watched Richmond? We're not the Bulldogs implementing a different gameplan to beat Essendon in a one-off match like they did in 2000. What the Tigers have done is to introduce a system that stands up against all-comers, across multiple years, in differing conditions and with players moving through. That doesn't happen if the said players and team are unskilled.

Fact is three out of four flags says anything but unskilled. Best W-L ratio across four seasons says anything but unskilled. Points for and points against are possibly in the best few for each individual season (I have not checked), and possibly the best across all four seasons combined (again I have not checked) - how is that unskilled?

System stands up in finals football, going 10-2 across 17-18-19-20. You'd think if it was unskilled other sides would have worked it out in time for the pointy end of the season.

Ive literally watched just about every Richmond game since 2016 due to like I said my mother. We talk about each quarter during every break. It’s a boring congested slog to sit through these games. Like a few have said a lot of sides do it Richmond just pressure better for longer. They are the best at it. The best defensive systems each year have always stood up from a hawthorn in the 80’s to Richmond now.

No1 is saying it’s not a skill because defensive setups take skill and very very good concentration. It’s boring Plain and simple. Mind you I don’t tell mum

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Seriously, wake up. The AFL are trying to get more scoring under pressure from their broadcaster. Lol

Some of the best games of football are low scoring, high pressure thrillers. If you just want to watch shootout after shootout with the ball going end to end with no pressure, go watch AFLX. What a dud flop that turned out to be.

I didn't say I want to watch a shootout.

 

[mxett]

Ok. I will have a chat with Dimma and tell him to back the pressure off a bit because it's Richmond's fault. Lol

Stop being silly. Dimma and the tigers have done very well, obviously. They've implemented a successful, albeit, ugly tactic better than any other side. But the custodians of the game need the game to remain entertaining or fans will turn away. It's nothing against the tigers, it's an issue in every game

 

[Lsta062]

Which is my point exactly. It isn't Richmond clogging up games. Richmond try to score basically at all times they have the ball.

This is something that many don’t get I feel. We as Richmond supporters know what a defensive Richmond looks like. For example, Richmond used to be defensive in the 2014-2015 era when we tried to hold on to possession and chip the ball. We defended when we didn’t have the ball and we were defensive with the ball as well, trying our best not retain possession of the ball.

However, that is not the case in the Premiership era. We are defensive when we don’t have the ball (I mean, why wouldn’t we?) and rely on our pressure in the forward line and midfield to stop teams getting clean disposals on the field and especially into our defensive 50. When we have the ball though, we go directly for the goals. Hardly any of this sideways, kicking backwards and chipping stuff. Just straight towards the goal. Therefore, I’d say that we’re actually extremely attacking when we have the ball (probably one of the most in the league). That’s why we basically had the highest total and average inside 50 count in the league last year and ranked top 3 in this stat since 2017 despite not being a high-ranking clearance, contested possession and uncontested possession side.

The real defensive sides are Collingwood and Sydney in my opinion. They are the ones who flood a team’s backline so that you cannot score and when they have the ball it doesn’t really seem like they have a strong intent of scoring. No surprise that our games against them last year was 36-36 and 34-26 our way respectively.

 

[HPKS]

Stop being silly. Dimma and the tigers have done very well, obviously. They've implemented a successful, albeit, ugly tactic better than any other side. But the custodians of the game need the game to remain entertaining or fans will turn away. It's nothing against the tigers, it's an issue in every game

The biggest concern for them is the baby boomers. When they’re gone a big chunk of their audience will have disappeared. Like I’ve said on here young kids do not live and breath the game like previous generations. If you watched a game 30+ years ago and then looked at the crowd and compared it to now the difference in young kids at the ground would be confronting.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Have you guys even watched Richmond? We're not the Bulldogs implementing a different gameplan to beat Essendon in a one-off match like they did in 2000. What the Tigers have done is to introduce a system that stands up against all-comers, across multiple years, in differing conditions and with players moving through. That doesn't happen if the said players and team are unskilled.

Fact is three out of four flags says anything but unskilled. Best W-L ratio across four seasons says anything but unskilled. Points for and points against are possibly in the best few for each individual season (I have not checked), and possibly the best across all four seasons combined (again I have not checked) - how is that unskilled?

System stands up in finals football, going 10-2 across 17-18-19-20. You'd think if it was unskilled other sides would have worked it out in time for the pointy end of the season.

I'm not saying it isn't effective, and I'm certainly not saying Richmond aren't good at it - I'm saying it's excruciating to sit through 100 minutes of it.

The problem is that it is effective! That's why every coach is obssessed with pressure and defence as the number one part of football. The number one focus of all coaches, especially Hardwick, is to stop the opposition from having any free time or space to execute the fundamental slills of football.

If you have two teams successfully acheiving their goal of stopping each other from executing basic and fundamental skills, you end up with... guess what...?
...A game devoid of fundamental and well executed skills. It's ****ing boring.

 

[YeOldTiger]

nope. The AFL are reacting to declining TV ratings. Sure, that also punishes revenue. But when fans are dropping off because the game has become an ugly, win at all costs, mess, they are right to listen and react

You're right about the ratings declining, but wrong about the reasons why.

There's so much more for people to do now than watch football. Other sports, social media, millions of tv channels across the entire electronic spectrum. That's the primary reason ratings are down. The AFL is under huge pressure form their fta tv broadcaster and their radio partners. Why ? Because as an advertiser, I dont want my ad in the pre game, quarters or half time breaks when everyone has gone for a whiz or to get a beer. Advertisers want their ads shown in live play. Less goals means less ads in live play. And as at half time is a wasted ad. Nobody sees it. The ratings are secondary to this.

If you dont believe Ch7 have been putting massive pressure on the league over the last few years to increase scoring then you dont know how to use Google.

I assure you, just as many fans enjoy a low scoring thriller if not more than fans who want to see goal after goal Paddy Dangerfield zero pressure type footy. Yawn. Why do you think the AFL's love child to have high scoring, AFLX was such a disaster ? Because it's boring af.

 

[mxett]

This is something that many don’t get I feel. We as Richmond supporters know a defensive Richmond when we see one. For example, Richmond used to be defensive in the 2014-2015 era when we tried to hold on to possession and chip the ball. We defended when we didn’t have the ball and we were defensive with the ball as well, trying our best not retain possession of the ball.

However, that is not the case in the Premiership era. We are defensive when we don’t have the ball (I mean, why wouldn’t we?) and rely on our pressure in the forward line and midfield to stop teams getting clean disposals on the field and especially into our defensive 50. When we have the ball though, we go directly for the goals. Hardly any of this sideways, kicking backwards and chipping stuff. Just straight towards the goal. Therefore, I’d say that we’re actually extremely attacking when we have the ball (probably one of the most in the league). That’s why we basically had the highest total and average inside 50 count in the league last year and ranked top 3 in this stat since 2017 despite not being a high-ranking clearance, contested possession and uncontested possession side.

The real defensive sides are Collingwood and Sydney in my opinion. They are the ones who flood a team’s backline so that you cannot score and when they have the ball it doesn’t really seem like they have a strong intent of scoring. No surprise that our games against them last year was 36-36 and 34-26 our way respectively.

I quite like watching the tigers play because they are a successful club with skillful players. However, they can be very clinical in their game plan, strangling their opposition with high pressure. So I also know I'm gonna see turnovers and mistakes aplenty, especially if the opposition can match their pressure. I'm not picking on the tigers, it's just not that good to watch for neutrals. Keep in mind you probably dont mind these games because you love watching them win, which is totally understandable.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

This exactly.

What the AFL are doing runs the risk of better sides scoring more while weaker sides don't. Suddenly there is a blowout between two teams I'm not particularly interested in and I'm off to bed or starting a movie at half-time on a Friday night. Keep the game close but with low scores and I'm watching until the very end.

I don't disagree.

Close finishes are engaging for sports fans. But personally, the way footy is currently, I find myself watching the start of games, then getting bored and checking the scores throughout. If it's close, I turn back on for the last 10 minutes.

This is what the AFL don't want. They don't want people flicking around to other channels. There's usually basketball, NRL or soccer on at the same time - or even a show or movie that the family wants to watch, and there's a very real risk that they catch your attention if the footy is a boring game.

So although close finishes are exciting and important - you cant have people switching off midway. You might not get them back.

 

[mxett]

You're right about the ratings declining, but wrong about the reasons why.

There's so much more for people to do now than watch football. Other sports, social media, millions of tv channels across the entire electronic spectrum. That's the primary reason ratings are down. The AFL is under huge pressure form their fta tv broadcaster and their radio partners. Why ? Because as an advertiser, I dont want my ad in the pre game, quarters or half time breaks when everyone has gone for a whiz or to get a beer. Advertisers want their ads shown in live play. Less goals means less ads in live play. And as at half time is a wasted ad. Nobody sees it. The ratings are secondary to this.

If you dont believe Ch7 have been putting massive pressure on the league over the last few years to increase scoring then you dont know how to use Google.

I assure you, just as many fans enjoy a low scoring thriller if not more than fans who want to see goal after goal Paddy Dangerfield zero pressure type footy. Yawn. Why do you think the AFL's love child to have high scoring, AFLX was such a disaster ? Because it's boring af.

Oh I know ch7 are putting pressure on the AFL. They dont want declining ratings because it hurts their revenue. They also want more ad space as you say, and more goals allow that. However, I think there have been more than enough complaints by the media and fans about the state of the game, especially congestion, to suggest it hasnt had an impact on viewership. especially for neutrals.

I dont want a high-scoring, low-pressure game. I want players to have more space to execute their skills. I want a forward to be pressured by a quality defender, not a zone of 9 opposition. Pressure is now applied through player numbers. The more players around the ball the higher the pressure. Yuck

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You're right about the ratings declining, but wrong about the reasons why.

There's so much more for people to do now than watch football. Other sports, social media, millions of tv channels across the entire electronic spectrum. That's the primary reason ratings are down. The AFL is under huge pressure form their fta tv broadcaster and their radio partners. Why ? Because as an advertiser, I dont want my ad in the pre game, quarters or half time breaks when everyone has gone for a whiz or to get a beer. Advertisers want their ads shown in live play. Less goals means less ads in live play. And as at half time is a wasted ad. Nobody sees it. The ratings are secondary to this.

If you dont believe Ch7 have been putting massive pressure on the league over the last few years to increase scoring then you dont know how to use Google.

I assure you, just as many fans enjoy a low scoring thriller if not more than fans who want to see goal after goal Paddy Dangerfield zero pressure type footy. Yawn. Why do you think the AFL's lovbackd to have high scoring, AFLX was such a disaster ? Because it's boring af.

But advertisers don't pay big money for time slots that no one is watching either.