Coach Teague in or out?

[slashin_velvet]

The thing with game plans is that they have to be workable in practice. There's no point having a 'perfect' game plan if it's impossible to implement.

And our game plan is leaving our players exhausted, and allowing our opposition to kick massive scores. The problems aren't just due to players not pulling their weight, and if they were, Teague should be dropping the non-performers and bringing in other players. But that's not happening either.

Agree with your second point.

Gameplan analysis isnt something I understand in immense detail, but its clear that we want to play an attacking brand - win the stoppage and get the ball forward at all costs - but the problem with that is we are easy to defend against because we blaze away from stoppage and bomb to a contest with forward entries. We need a spare at the contest for the handball receive so the forward kick is to a good user. I think Barker's departure will be good for the overall performance of the team.

 

[azlou]

So players should blindly follow a coach, no matter how bad they are?
Our game plan and selection policies have been junk. How can you expect buy-in on something that clearly isn't working?

I agree Lepa was saying get rid of them but he was sacked so a bit salty
I can’t see how players aren’t supposed to care about there job if they think things aren’t working.
If you’re happy for a paycheque you just stay quiet and turn up for work.
If you’re a pisser and moaner you’ll be ignored.
But if you strive for excellence and want success you’re going asses what’s working and what isn’t and discuss with teammates.
Like why are we being coached to coral and wave our hands like a blow up character in front of a car yard

 

[macky99]

I think Teague will survive and we will bump up our assistant coaching team with some quality.

The thing going in Teagues favour is he has never got close to having a best 22 on the park in his tenure at the club.

Don't really see how that can happen to be honest, the head coach must surely take responsibility for ineffective game plan absolutely a team zero defensive actions and no intensity, the team has gone backwards, l believe the only way forward is a clean sweep of the coaching staff except Power.

 

[blueboy25]

Don't really see how that can happen to be honest, the head coach must surely take responsibility for ineffective game plan absolutely a team zero defensive actions and no intensity, the team has gone backwards, l believe the only way forward is a clean sweep of the coaching staff except Power.

The game plan that has seen us lose by no more than 28 points this season. Yes there are some issues but cleaning house and starting again is not the answer.

 

[Blue Dimension]

To be fair, it's unlikely that the media gets these things from the players.

If it’s coming from execs at the club, that’s a massive problem (see my recent post in the other thread for my explanation as to why). To me, it reads as if it has come directly from the players - guess we will never really know though. Either way it is really not good.

 

[F_therest]

The thing with game plans is that they have to be workable in practice. There's no point having a 'perfect' game plan if it's impossible to implement.

And our game plan is leaving our players exhausted, and allowing our opposition to kick massive scores. The problems aren't just due to players not pulling their weight, and if they were, Teague should be dropping the non-performers and bringing in other players. But that's not happening either.

Agree when I watch our team especially earlier in the year I think the effort and resilience is there...but the game plan isn't helping and if the players don't actually believe in the game plan and the results don't come then they get frustrated and it starts to fall apart...which is what is happening I think.

Think Teague will remain but may have to change his style a bit just like Buckley and Hardwick did after their clubs did similar reviews...and it brought success for them (Collingwood made the GF in 2018). The main change I think will be changes in personnel to the rest of our coaching staff and Teague needing to take on feedback to change himself and his style.

 

[GeoCoulthard]

I'm hoping that we keep Teague. Definitely don't want another change of coach at this time. Coach sacking is something that happens all too easily and for often the wrong reasons.

I've been very, very underwhelmed by the football this year and feel that we have underperformed badly. But lets look at this objectively. We have had a lot of injuries, yes all teams get them but I think we have had more injuries to best 22 players than most sides. If nothing else, this means that players are not getting a good run of playing with each other so cannot build the relationships that come from knowing your team mates' game styles and quirks. You can train with each other but playing is a whole different kettle of fish. The other thing is that despite what seems to be really bad play we have not lost any game by very much - we are just not winning them. Surprisingly, we still have a percentage in the 90s. That isn't all that bad really when you line that up with our poor play. The other thing is that while we are not winning we have not lost any games by big margins. Our biggest loss was 28 points against Port Adelaide in a year when many sides, even the good ones have had some real beltings.

If things click and we get a couple of good players back and others playing with injuries start to get better then it is quite possible that we will start winning games and there is nothing better than a winning culture to improve motivation and desire to win some more. Some tweeks to the game style might be on the cards as well. Put it all together and I still think David Teague has something to offer. It might be too late for this year but I just think we are building. A bit like Melbourne of last year.

Think of the successful coaches that have been very close to being sacked for underwhelming performances before things 'just click' and all of a sudden they have success and are considered world beaters. The latest in that long line would seem to be the Melbourne coach who no-one seemed to think had any chance of retaining his position before the form reversal of this year.

 

[BrisbaneBlue]

I think a massive part of our problem is culture. I don't see players having pride in the jumper and doing what is necessary to win. Culture is a key component in why Hawthorn and Richmond have been successful recently, and something I don't see in our team. The review really needs to look at this aspect and if it is determined that Teague is a contributing factor to the cultural issues he should be gone. If it is determined that is out of his control then he either needs to be given more control and other people who have created the poor culture need to go. I was a big believer in Teague, but now feel that was just hope at the time.

 

[Blue since 72]

The thing with game plans is that they have to be workable in practice. There's no point having a 'perfect' game plan if it's impossible to implement.

And our game plan is leaving our players exhausted, and allowing our opposition to kick massive scores. The problems aren't just due to players not pulling their weight, and if they were, Teague should be dropping the non-performers and bringing in other players. But that's not happening either.

The thing for me is (and I do think the plan is an issue at least in part) is surely senior players like Cripps and Doc should/would be going to Teague and saying mate this is just too exhausting to maintain, we need to tweak it.

Perhaps he's being obstinate but that would be pretty ordinary if so (ie not listening to players feedback).

As usual when the s**t hits the fan it's never just one thing but I'd genuinely love to know how much game plan is playing a part in our inability to win games.

 

[iAsbestos]

Needs the right assistants around him first.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Ian PrenderCast tweeting Teague has lost the players... Not sure if he has any better mail than those who read bigfooty but slightly concerning.

 

[Bic]

The concern is that this review HAS to get it right and make the right decisions.

We can all speculate but only the real people in that footy club know the answer whether Teague is the right man.

My opinion is that he isn't, but that doesn't matter at the end of the day.

To me the fact they brought Worsfold in tells me Teague isn't ready - that is glaringly obvious fact against keeping him IMO.

I think we all know Teague has poor assistants around him - but is replacing all of them going to be enough?

 

[gab213]

The thing with game plans is that they have to be workable in practice. There's no point having a 'perfect' game plan if it's impossible to implement.

And our game plan is leaving our players exhausted, and allowing our opposition to kick massive scores. The problems aren't just due to players not pulling their weight, and if they were, Teague should be dropping the non-performers and bringing in other players. But that's not happening either.

When have we had a massive score kicked against us this year? The highest was 107, twice. We have scored 123 and 109 in games ourselves. When our players exhaust ourselves it's allowing our opponents to score heavily at that time but nobody's posting massive scores against us. I still think a big problem is we don't take the opportunity to apply scoreboard pressure when we should.

The game plan needs some tweaking for sure to enable us to actually have a chance to win these games that we are just falling short in.

Dropping non-performers is good when you have adequate replacements for them, until now we haven't had them available. You can see them returning to the team as they are available. Unfortunately, IMO we've been rushing them back too quickly.

 

[Big Red is back]

When have we had a massive score kicked against us this year? The highest was 107, twice. We have scored 123 and 109 in games ourselves. When our players exhaust ourselves it's allowing our opponents to score heavily at that time but nobody's posting massive scores against us. I still think a big problem is we don't take the opportunity to apply scoreboard pressure when we should.

The game plan needs some tweaking for sure to enable us to actually have a chance to win these games that we are just falling short in.

Dropping non-performers is good when you have adequate replacements for them, until now we haven't had them available. You can see them returning to the team as they are available. Unfortunately, IMO we've been rushing them back too quickly.

Have you watched a game?

We couldn't possibly be easier to score against, 'exhaust ourselves' I saw the eagles in Q1 with a WAFL team kick 3 of the easiest opening goals one would ever see.

Every single AFL analysts agree our defensive structures are a mess from Q1 to Q4 of every game.

 

[gab213]

Have you watched a game?

We couldn't possibly be easier to score against, 'exhaust ourselves' I saw the eagles in Q1 with a WAFL team kick 3 of the easiest opening goals one would ever see.

Every single AFL analysts agree our defensive structures are a mess from Q1 to Q4 of every game.

Of course we've been easy to score against once the guys are buggered. That wasn't a WAFL team we played, that's just a bs narrative. West Coast was still chock full of experienced leaders. That was the difference between the two teams. They scored 3 easy goals to open up with yet we should have been 3 or 4 goals up at quarter time. Maybe you didn't watch the game cause after that initial burst we killed them everywhere but on the scoreboard in that first quarter.

 

[Stamos]

When have we had a massive score kicked against us this year? The highest was 107, twice. We have scored 123 and 109 in games ourselves. When our players exhaust ourselves it's allowing our opponents to score heavily at that time but nobody's posting massive scores against us. I still think a big problem is we don't take the opportunity to apply scoreboard pressure when we should.

The game plan needs some tweaking for sure to enable us to actually have a chance to win these games that we are just falling short in.

Dropping non-performers is good when you have adequate replacements for them, until now we haven't had them available. You can see them returning to the team as they are available. Unfortunately, IMO we've been rushing them back too quickly.

Every one of our (8) losses the opposition has kicked at least 94 points, and Essendon got 107. You think it's sustainable to be letting that many goals through?


We've had plenty of possible replacements for our under-performers. Kids are cracking in in the 2s. Give them a go.

 

[gab213]

Every one of our (8) losses the opposition has kicked at least 94 points, and Essendon got 107. You think it's sustainable to be letting that many goals through?


We've had plenty of possible replacements for our under-performers. Kids are cracking in in the 2s. Give them a go.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a 'massive' score, none of those you've quoted are to me. Essendon scored 107 yes (which is hardly a massive swcore) , we scored 123.

The kids who were actually cracking in have been getting games, not every kid deserves a promotion just cause he's a kid. The worst thing to do to kids is giving them games when they don't deserve them. Causes more harm than good long term.


Stocker was promoted when he made it impossible for his performance to be ignored, Cuningham was promoted, Owies promoted, Dow had an early block of games then recalled again. SPS had 88 games without ever going back. How many young players do you think are missing out?

With half a season to go I'm sure that we will see more too.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Whichever players are talking behind the coaches back about his capability and not buying in are part of the problem. We've seen this already with Bolton.

Any of these players are a cancer to culture and progression and must be removed as soon as possible. Even if it's Cripps or Walsh. Do we have a single premiership player in our team? Do we have a single player who is in a position to analyse what success looks like?

Maybe.

But sometimes if you've got employees talking about the boss behind their back, it's because those employees feel that making their concerns known through official channels will only bring them trouble. And if some of the specific complaints/concerns are around selection integrity, then one could see why players would feel uncomfortable sticking their necks out.

If there are players who don't understand the gameplan, don't feel they are being given enough/the right direction to allow them to understand it, believe that there are teammates being given unfair treatment (positive or negative), and believe that rocking the boat puts them at risk, then the issue isn't with those players.

 

[Stamos]

We'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a 'massive' score, none of those you've quoted are to me. Essendon scored 107 yes (which is hardly a massive swcore) , we scored 123.

The kids who were actually cracking in have been getting games, not every kid deserves a promotion just cause he's a kid. The worst thing to do to kids is giving them games when they don't deserve them. Causes more harm than good long term.

4 clubs in the league have conceded more points than us (Hawthorn a good chance too when they play their 12th game).
We've conceded more than a goal a quarter more than Melbourne, the Dogs and the Cats across the whole year. Don't know how that isn't massive?


What's causing harm is the lack of selection integrity, where unfit and out of form players are picked, and different standards are applied to different players.

 

[Earls Smother]

Ian PrenderCast tweeting Teague has lost the players... Not sure if he has any better mail than those who read bigfooty but slightly concerning.

Cripp's body language in the Essendon game in 2019 prior to Bolton's sacking was very telling IMO.

His performance (or lack thereof in terms of pressure acts) was eerily similiar on Sunday. Maybe his back had flared up again, but there were worrying signs, that surely can't be attributed to issues with a now departed stoppage coach?

 

[Iamcarlton]

I'll vomit if Ross Lyon ends up anywhere near the club.

However well known as a hardarse i think its pretty clear the club needs someone of his mentality .
No nonsense if your not pulling your weight your out type of person .
Probably time some home truths where given out imo .
Not sure about Ross but someone of his ilk i think would be well worth appointing in some capacity .

 

[gab213]

4 clubs in the league have conceded more points than us (Hawthorn a good chance too when they play their 12th game).
We've conceded more than a goal a quarter more than Melbourne, the Dogs and the Cats across the whole year. Don't know how that isn't massive?


What's causing harm is the lack of selection integrity, where unfit and out of form players are picked, and different standards are applied to different players.

We have also scored higher than 10 other teams, whether we have conceded more than any particular team doesn't mean much.
Let's agree to disagree cause there's no way i'm calling the scoring against us 'massive'.

The out of form/unfit players wouldn't have played so many games if others were available and not injured. Surely we can see that changing as players become available. I'm still not sure which young players have been held back or not playing when deserving of a game?

 

[Kismet]

Recently I had dinner with a senior player and his opinion was the problems are very much player issues, in particular a lack of self confidence. Partly this is coach driven, and not just senior coach. The review is the right thing to do, and experience at Richmond and Geelong demonstrates that the exercise can be very productive.

Clarkson, Thompson and Hardwick were all under immense pressure to retain their jobs, yet with the right resources and structures, became successful. Culture can also evolve swiftly; remember how Richmond were seen as a perennial basketcase, yet now are universally lauded.

In my opinion, we have good people both on and off the field at the moment, but how responsibilities are allocated can often be a significant problem for any organisation and can have an impact on the overall culture.

Let's see what the review produces and then decisions can be made, but just calling for Teague's sacking is premature, short-sighted and reactionary without any informed analysis.

 

[F_therest]

The concern is that this review HAS to get it right and make the right decisions.

We can all speculate but only the real people in that footy club know the answer whether Teague is the right man.

My opinion is that he isn't, but that doesn't matter at the end of the day.

To me the fact they brought Worsfold in tells me Teague isn't ready - that is glaringly obvious fact against keeping him IMO.

I think we all know Teague has poor assistants around him - but is replacing all of them going to be enough?

We also had a Head of Coaching role for Henry Playfair to provide support to our coaches until COVID hit.

I think replacing them will be good enough...many coaches started our inexperienced. Arguably Goodwin for example seemed to be floundering but Melbourne are dominating right now and some of the credit has gone to Choco Williams who they only brought in this year.

In terms of the review, you'd think we'd be able to get highly qualified people in to conduct it given our new president used to be the CEO of PwC...these type of reviews are what PwC do.

 

[F_therest]

Cripp's body language in the Essendon game in 2019 prior to Bolton's sacking was very telling IMO.

His performance (or lack thereof in terms of pressure acts) was eerily similiar on Sunday. Maybe his back had flared up again, but there were worrying signs, that surely can't be attributed to issues with a now departed stoppage coach?

Is it just me or has Teague looked pretty strained in his press conferences this year?

Comparing them to 2019 and even 2020, I feel he used to be far more upbeat and spoke about it being important that the players enjoy themselves and play to their strengths...I don't really hear that much from him anymore.