The ‘90s vs today

[PieLebo87]

I was born in ‘87, so too young to remember the ‘90s. Question for the older folk… are things as dire (on-field) now as they were in the ‘90s? I understand off-field is a different thing, as the club was a basket case, but I’m talking on-field.

Bear in mind, the ‘90s crew didn’t have the current set up the football department and players now have.

Personally, this is as deplorable a Collingwood FC I’ve seen from a football department perspective as there has been in my lifetime.

 

[Baird]

We were only bad in 98 and 99. We are the same as 98 (7 wins) and better than 99 (4 wins)

 

[PieLebo87]

Checking our W/L stats. If we don’t win again this year, we’ll be facing our equal worst season since 1942.

 

[PieLebo87]

We were only bad in 98 and 99. We are the same as 98 (7 wins) and better than 99 (4 wins)

1999 and 1982 (4 wins), 1942 is the only time we’ve had less wins.

 

[lenny20]

The manner of our losses and state of our list was much worse in ‘99.

Imagine the first three quarters of the Saints game without the last quarter surge. So many games we’d go down without a fight. Or, more heartbreakingly, we’d fight tooth and nail only for some insanely bad piece of skill to cost us the game.

Players like Jason Wild, Stephen Patterson, Mark Orchard, Mark Richardson and Aaron James make today’s whipping boys look like Pendles. There were sooooo many list cloggers that everyone could just see were never gonna be good footy players, but we had to play them - the list was just that bad.

We’d also been down so long without making finals that it was hard to see hope on the horizon. We won a final in 2020. By 1999 I don’t think we’d even made the finals for 5 or 6 years, and we wouldn’t for another three years still.

And as you mention, off-field, we were a rabble. Hard to imagine these days, but we were operating like a North or St Kilda, just completely shambolic. Eddie turned that around and the team soon followed.

So, in my opinion, we’re nowhere near as bad as we were in the late ‘90s. If 2027 rolls around and we haven’t made finals once in that entire time, then you’ll start to understand how dire things were back then.

 

[Jelly Bean]

The season in isolation, we are probably as bad as 98 (not quite 99). But as the previous post mentions, we have just come from three years of finals, so it doesn't feel all that bad. In 99 we'd be major strugglers for half a decade, and would end up for the next 2 years as well

 

[ZEV]

Although the 99 W/L was really bad I felt pretty optimistic about the list. As soon as Buck's broke his jaw in R2 we were in big trouble. Don't forget that back then on-ballers would play on the ball for the entire game and Bucks was probably the best and most damaging midfielder in the game at that point.

There were a lot of list cloggers but there was a heap of young talent coming through, Tarrant, Anthony Rocca (the year he arrived as a player), Davis, Presti (our first real fullback since Pert left), Licuria and some pretty good established talent like Williams, Burns and the fact Gavin Brown no longer had to play as a key defender. Not to mention the general feeling of the footy world that it was the best year ever to finish last because the great white hope Josh Fraser was coming...

 

[Bungeye]

I was born in 1987 and can remember watching Collingwood from 94 onwards..

You're obviously a late bloomer so I forgive you!

 

[jonmacTrag]

Although the 99 W/L was really bad I felt pretty optimistic about the list. As soon as Buck's broke his jaw in R2 we were in big trouble. Don't forget that back then on-ballers would play on the ball for the entire game and Bucks was probably the best and most damaging midfielder in the game at that point.

There were a lot of list cloggers but there was a heap of young talent coming through, Tarrant, Anthony Rocca (the year he arrived as a player), Davis, Presti (our first real fullback since Pert left), Licuria and some pretty good established talent like Williams, Burns and the fact Gavin Brown no longer had to play as a key defender. Not to mention the general feeling of the footy world that it was the best year ever to finish last because the great white hope Josh Fraser was coming...

Yes the whole large ruckmen are dinosaurs philosophy LOL.
Poor Josh could have been a truly great 2nd or 3rd tall but was never ever going to beat the hulks.

 

[ZEV]

Yes the whole large ruckmen are dinosaurs philosophy LOL.
Poor Josh could have been a truly great 2nd or 3rd tall but was never ever going to beat the hulks.

I think its really easy to forget how dominant players like McKernan, Rehn and White were in the 90s.

I think the expectation might have been that Josh at some point was going to fill out a bit....

We were all sure that Josh was going to be the ruck man Cox turned out to be, the forward that Jonathan Brown turned out to be with the versatility that Pavlich had...

 

[Trickster]

I agree 95 to 99 was horrible so no comparison yet but we may be tracking down that path.

The biggest disaster of 99 was we had picks 1 and 3. We selected Fraser with number 1 and then traded pick 3 and Clinton King for pick 7 and Steve McKee. End result, no Pav who went at 4 (God bless Richmond in that era though. They chose Fiora at 3).

 

[Ingy]

1999 and 1982 (4 wins), 1942 is the only time we’ve had less wins.

Yeah if you only count 2/3 of the seasons, that will cease to be true.

What a bizarre thread

 

[Ingy]

The season in isolation, we are probably as bad as 98 (not quite 99). But as the previous post mentions, we have just come from three years of finals, so it doesn't feel all that bad. In 99 we'd be major strugglers for half a decade, and would end up for the next 2 years as well

And then the next two years we made grand finals

 

[jonmacTrag]

I think its really easy to forget how dominant players like McKernan, Rehn and White were in the 90s.

I think the expectation might have been that Josh at some point was going to fill out a bit....

We were all sure that Josh was going to be the ruck man Cox turned out to be, the forward that Jonathan Brown turned out to be with the versatility that Pavlich had...

Of course it didn't help that Malthouse refused to get him some relief - he carried our rucks on those frail shoulders and gets precious little recognition around here and everywhere else.

Not his fault that he came onto the market at the time 'small ruckmen' were fashionable.

 

[loki04]

The manner of our losses and state of our list was much worse in ‘99.

Imagine the first three quarters of the Saints game without the last quarter surge. So many games we’d go down without a fight. Or, more heartbreakingly, we’d fight tooth and nail only for some insanely bad piece of skill to cost us the game.

Players like Jason Wild, Stephen Patterson, Mark Orchard, Mark Richardson and Aaron James make today’s whipping boys look like Pendles. There were sooooo many list cloggers that everyone could just see were never gonna be good footy players, but we had to play them - the list was just that bad.

We’d also been down so long without making finals that it was hard to see hope on the horizon. We won a final in 2020. By 1999 I don’t think we’d even made the finals for 5 or 6 years, and we wouldn’t for another three years still.

And as you mention, off-field, we were a rabble. Hard to imagine these days, but we were operating like a North or St Kilda, just completely shambolic. Eddie turned that around and the team soon followed.

So, in my opinion, we’re nowhere near as bad as we were in the late ‘90s. If 2027 rolls around and we haven’t made finals once in that entire time, then you’ll start to understand how dire things were back then.

We are 100% worse then the 90s as there is nothing redeemable about this side or the way we play.
The last few years has been the hardest to enjoy from a supporter and AFL fan in my time watching. Lack of flair, attacking run and dare, lack of quality KPF, xfactor types, a game plan around grinding opposition into submission and not even bothering the score board.

Its just shite.


98 and 99 had some horrible losses but it also had moments where you thought the future will be bright with Buckley dominating the league and in 99 some fresh exciting talent coming in with Taz Davis etc.

 

[ipswichpies]

We are 100% worse then the 90s as there is nothing redeemable about this side or the way we play.
The last few years has been the hardest to enjoy from a supporter and AFL fan in my time watching. Lack of flair, attacking run and dare, lack of quality KPF, xfactor types, a game plan around grinding opposition into submission and not even bothering the score board.

Its just sh*te.


98 and 99 had some horrible losses but it also had moments where you thought the future will be bright with Buckley dominating the league and in 99 some fresh exciting talent coming in with Taz Davis etc.

I think Loki your as depressed as me mate, the thing I found the worst about the ninety,s was how we use to get to may being 5 and 2 and then not winning in june and july and this went on for 4 or 5 seasons very depressing.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

We are 100% worse then the 90s as there is nothing redeemable about this side or the way we play.
The last few years has been the hardest to enjoy from a supporter and AFL fan in my time watching. Lack of flair, attacking run and dare, lack of quality KPF, xfactor types, a game plan around grinding opposition into submission and not even bothering the score board.

Its just sh*te.


98 and 99 had some horrible losses but it also had moments where you thought the future will be bright with Buckley dominating the league and in 99 some fresh exciting talent coming in with Taz Davis etc.

Agreed but Davis debut was in 2000

 

[ZEV]

Agreed but Davis debut was in 2000

Nick Davis was 99.

Leon Davis was 00

 

[Jelly Bean]

Of course it didn't help that Malthouse refused to get him some relief - he carried our rucks on those frail shoulders and gets precious little recognition around here and everywhere else.

Not his fault that he came onto the market at the time 'small ruckmen' were fashionable.

It's a bit of a myth that MM made Fraser ruck on his own for 100% of each game. He was rarely ever the starting ruckman - Steve McKee was

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Nick Davis was 99.

Leon Davis was 00

Yes acknowledged, Nick Davis a great talent and debut in 1999 my bad.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The manner of our losses and state of our list was much worse in ‘99.

Imagine the first three quarters of the Saints game without the last quarter surge. So many games we’d go down without a fight. Or, more heartbreakingly, we’d fight tooth and nail only for some insanely bad piece of skill to cost us the game.

Players like Jason Wild, Stephen Patterson, Mark Orchard, Mark Richardson and Aaron James make today’s whipping boys look like Pendles. There were sooooo many list cloggers that everyone could just see were never gonna be good footy players, but we had to play them - the list was just that bad.

We’d also been down so long without making finals that it was hard to see hope on the horizon. We won a final in 2020. By 1999 I don’t think we’d even made the finals for 5 or 6 years, and we wouldn’t for another three years still.

And as you mention, off-field, we were a rabble. Hard to imagine these days, but we were operating like a North or St Kilda, just completely shambolic. Eddie turned that around and the team soon followed.

So, in my opinion, we’re nowhere near as bad as we were in the late ‘90s. If 2027 rolls around and we haven’t made finals once in that entire time, then you’ll start to understand how dire things were back then.

This

Kudos to OP and this excellent summary for the opportunity to put things into perspective.

 

[Horaceg]

Although the 99 W/L was really bad I felt pretty optimistic about the list. As soon as Buck's broke his jaw in R2 we were in big trouble. Don't forget that back then on-ballers would play on the ball for the entire game and Bucks was probably the best and most damaging midfielder in the game at that point.

There were a lot of list cloggers but there was a heap of young talent coming through, Tarrant, Anthony Rocca (the year he arrived as a player), Davis, Presti (our first real fullback since Pert left), Licuria and some pretty good established talent like Williams, Burns and the fact Gavin Brown no longer had to play as a key defender. Not to mention the general feeling of the footy world that it was the best year ever to finish last because the great white hope Josh Fraser was coming...

Josh Fraser was a CHF, whilst he was a serviceable ruckman, especially around the ground we butchered his career playing him out of position.

90's were a step up on the 80's when egos between ourselves and Richmond's were out of control writing cheques neither Club could afford.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I wasn't in the country during the bulk of the 90's, thankfully missing Kennett.

Mark Orchard prompted my 'no more short people' policy. 175 cm was never again going to suffice. Mark Richardson was according to his dad going be our next Tony Lockett. Jason Wilde seemed to epitomise dreadfulness, while Aaron will always be fondly recalled as 'the urinator'. Jason is one who teased with his graceful playing style, until we realised there was no teasing, with what you saw possibly representing even more than was actually on offer.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Josh Fraser was a CHF, whilst he was a serviceable ruckman, especially around the ground we butchered his career playing him out of position.

90's were a step up on the 80's when egos between ourselves and Richmond's were out of control writing cheques neither Club could afford.

He was too spindly to play CHF. He could run up and down the flanks or bob about in the pocket, but really he was a man without a position, possibly best suited to a ruck roving role.

 

[76woodenspooners]

98 and 99 had some horrible losses but it also had moments where you thought the future will be bright with Buckley dominating the league and in 99 some fresh exciting talent coming in with Taz Davis etc.

One of the differences between footy in general back then and today, was that back then many teams had their hero players …

… players who the fans would happily pay the price of admission just to see them do their thing. St Kilda had Tony Lockett, Sydney had Warwick Capper. For Collingwood that player was Nathan Buckley, and maybe Sav Rocca for a few seasons.

But their teams were otherwise rubbish.

An exception to that was Wayne Carey, he was a player that fans paid the price of admission to watch, and he played in successful teams.

These days teams don’t have those singular hero players … except for maybe Franklin at the Swans (you’ve gotta be at a Swans game live to appreciate it … you could be inside at the bar and you know from the crowd noise when Franklin goes anywhere near the footy - I kid you not)

So the “Hope” that teams had in the 90’s and before were typically a false hope based around a singular or small number of hero players. St Kilda were always going to be rubbish no matter how many goals Tony Lockett kicked.