News Clarkson news, media etc - he’s off into the Sunset!

[Strapping Young Lad]

Full Presser at the link below.

 

[tommyk72]

Pls instant ban for a week for mentioning the one who shall not be named

Grim decision making to get him in hahaha

It's unclear to me which of the two names in the previous post you referring to!

 

[deanc]

Goes to my point I have been banging on about since this story broke.

Impossible, and I mean flat out impossible, that two dominant alpha personalities like Clarko and Mitchell could make a hybrid coaching scenario work next year.

Does anyone actually doubt that Mitch doesn't think he would be better off without Clarko their next year?

Caro sis usually pretty solid with her intel (whatever you think of her style) so I think we can assume this to be the case.

I'd actually be a little disappointed if Mitchell and Clarkson weren't butting heads like 2 billy-goats constructively debating their views on developing the teams structure, game style and specific players roles etc.

That Freo game was hard to watch, we looked disorganised with some players suddenly being switched to the back-line or going forward, which looked a lot like panic moves. A friend who was at the match said at one stage we only had 17 players on the ground during the 3rd quarter as there appeared to be some confusion around who was supposed to doing what/when/replacing who around the interchange, which he said was a bit of a schmozzle..!!!

Re working relationships. I once worked closely with a partner in a law firm for about 5 years and he could be a right pain, we had little in common outside our profession (I like footy and golf, he collected stamps and went to gallery openings) so we rarely socialized and in the office we would often agree to disagree. However, in the legal fraternity at least, we were considered a formidable team. So when I announced I was moving to another firm I was shocked as his emotional speech (helped by a few wines) during my leaving function as he claimed it was like losing a brother!

My point is, there is every chance your negative hypothesis of their collaboration preparing for this handover could just as easily not be anything remotely like what is being promoted by some in the media - who lets face it, all know that good news rarely sells anything...!

I also find it interesting that the media have not approached Mitchell for related comment - or perhaps they have, but were unable to coerce him into supporting their preferred narrative, accordingly there is nothing to report...

At the end of the day, I guess we will all find out soon enough..?

 

[MinerBoy]

I know many on here don't like Caro, but she doesn't run with garbage. She is running with what she is told, we have a leak. Intentional or not.

My question, why are we leaking this to her? Giving weight to the theory we want Clarko gone.

Hmm not sure... was basically a lot of " LooK I don't know but"... felt like pure speculation without really puttiting her figurative balls on the line and committing to anything.

 

[matey]

Please Jeff come out today and say “I can’t put a face to Caroline Wilson. I don’t know who she is”. That was a shocking piece of journalism. “My opinion”, “I believe” ...... that’s not news! Clarko and Sammy had a meeting whooppee they will probably have plenty more while working together. She has never liked Clarko and it’s definitely become personal. Another example of Caro trying to make news instead of reporting it. The media has no accountability.

Clarko and Sam won’t come out to deny or confirm anything and let it play out in the public arena ...... and then in the aftermath the frenzy keeps growing as if it has merit. Keeping their bosses happy all the seagulls have got plenty to talk about during the week.

 

[Linda CRS]

Caros basically bang on. People on the board mightn’t like the subject or her but she’s right on this. Well backgrounded.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Caros basically bang on. People on the board mightn’t like the subject or her but she’s right on this. Well backgrounded.

She's rarely spot on. She throws a lot of darts around hot topics, and then when something hits, she shows what she said, acting like she's a genius.
It's not just her though, it's most of the media

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Pessimistic]

This little duck is pleased to hear internal hawthorn meetings have ‘friction’. The results aren’t going well overall and there’s. Long way to go. Far better than full on self congratulation.

easy to display this as egos bigger than the club, but it seems to have made friction positive over a couple of decades now, why would this change anything?

no doubt if we have open honesty in meetings, these things may have been expressed. But sure other stuff was also covered
The question is, did the leaker present it in the mischievous light, or did Wilson chose to do that?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Why would Sam Mitchell be upset that Clarkson, already contracted for 2022 when Mitchell arrived, will be there in 2022?

Are we expected to believe that Sam Mitchell wants Clarkson terminated prematurely?

Yes. We are all morons expected to believe the unsourced gossip rather than the first hand statements from the people directly involved. We're supposed to believe that Clarkson is simultaneously too smart for Kennett and engineered the Mitchell takeover while also being too afraid of Kennett to say he hates it publicly. We're supposed to believe that Mitchell and Clarkson have a special relationship while simultaneously Mitchell wants nothing to do with Clarkson and can't wait to see the backside of him. We're supposed to believe simultaneously that Kennett is too stupid to run a football club and pick a good coach while a being a Machiavellian genius that holds a football club to ransom.

This episode is a case study in projection v observation.

EDIT: With a good dose of shit stirring thrown in for fun.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Caros basically bang on. People on the board mightn’t like the subject or her but she’s right on this. Well backgrounded.

You've had special insight into events and facts, that for sure and appreciated. In fact, I think I was one of the first to say your "Sam is replacing Clarkson" sauce sounded credible. You have insights into motives and emotions as well? You're very close to one party (I'm guessing who), if true, triangulating from the details you've given us.

Some questions on Caro being spot on:

* Is it true that "Sam Mitchell, who seems to have known for some time – and certainly longer than Clarkson – that the senior job was to be his"? Clarkson both engineered Mitchell's WC apprenticeship five years ago and subsequent early return to Hawthorn. Persuaded Mitchell to step into BH to mature his head coach experience. Encouraged the board to look at an early switch (unless you're also agreeing with Caro that Clarkson is flat out lying about this). And didn't see this coming? The details we have been given are only consistent with Caro's claim if Clarkson is a raging buffoon or outrageous liar or both.

* And this? "And the only reason the club has even put forward the succession plan is because Clarkson has a watertight contract and it can neither afford nor is inclined to pay him out." A watertight plan, agreed three years ago, which is structured to exactly enable this very scenario? So we're left with either Hawthorn and all parties expected something like this to happen (Collingwood forcing unfortunate timing) or the fell into it by dumb luck or someone (usually Clarkson) created this and now hates it.

* "Coaches and clubs wear each other out and clearly this is what happened with Clarkson and Hawthorn". It's not clear at all to me that this is what happened. What is clear is that a succession plan first put into motion five years ago, subsequently re-enforced with contract arrangements and Mitchell's movements, has come to pass. Are there a few growing pains and some melancholy? Almost certainly. But in no way does that natural emotional state lead to Caro's "clear" conclusion, IMO.


Anyways, I don't expect you to answer. I'm just not persuaded that the emotions of the situation are bigger than the people who created it.

 

[kirbatron]

No doubt he does. Leveraging the media to get rid of AC early is pretty ordinary. The board certainly not endearing themselves to myself or the supporters where i think this stuff needs to be handled privately.

The exit of a great is tough but they are doing a shit job so far. 1/10.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Hahaha now I am even more certain the leaks are intentional.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hahaha now I am even more certain the leaks are intentional.

Same. Nothing surer that Clarko won't be there regardless. He'll either take another gig, or we'll pay him out to take a year off. It won't work.

 

[Quacker5]

As usual for these things; pinch of salt but got some reasonable word that Clarkson and Hawthorn are settling his contract as recently as today for him not to be coaching us next year and also at this stage not looking to be coaching Collingwood or the Blues.

 

[Xtreme]

As usual for these things; pinch of salt but got some reasonable word that Clarkson and Hawthorn are settling his contract as recently as today for him not to be coaching us next year and also at this stage not looking to be coaching Collingwood or the Blues.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No doubt he does. Leveraging the media to get rid of AC early is pretty ordinary. The board certainly not endearing themselves to myself or the supporters where i think this stuff needs to be handled privately.

The exit of a great is tough but they are doing a sh*t job so far. 1/10.

It's not the board doing the engineering. It's Mitchell. To believe this story you have to believe that Mitchell is white-anting Clarkson through rumours and media. You have to believe that Mitchell is such a coward that he would say Yes to Clarkson's face while saying No behind his back.

I don't believe it. I think it's all second hand gossip. Undoubtedly there is some emotion involved but I don't believe that either Clarkson or Mitchell would undermine each other through gossip and the press. Which is exactly what we have to believe if the reported gossip is actually the dominant narrative.

 

[Carl Spackler]

We have to believe that:

A) Clarkson, after engineering the entire succession plan, now doesn't want it to happen when it comes out nearly exactly as planned, or

B) Mitchell, after pursuing the succession, agreeing to reject Collingwood and take BH leadership for one more year is now gossiping to undermine that agreement made just two weeks ago?

or even more unbelievably

C) Clarkson and Mitchell are both fine with this but Kennett (after supporting the succession plan the whole way through, signing all the contracts and voting on every move in the boardroom) is undermining them both in order to avoid a year's coaching salary.


There may be something going on but it would require such an amazing public repudiation of trustworthiness on the part of either Clarkson or Mitchell that the thought borders on ridiculous. More crazy things have happen but there's been no indication that either of those two are so duplicitous.

 

[daniel23]

The media are good at wording and making things sound a lot worse then they are.

 

[Bardo State]

If Sam Mitchell has a strong vision for how things should change around the club and how players are used, why would he want another year of things being done the old way? And if he doesn't have a strong vision for how to change the club, why would we be making him our coach?

It's clear what the optimal arrangement is from a footy perspective. The limiting factor is clearly $$$. Put Caro hate aside.

 

[Carl Spackler]

If Sam Mitchell has a strong vision for how things should change around the club and how players are used, why would he want another year of things being done the old way? And if he doesn't have a strong vision for how to change the club, why would we be making him our coach?

It's clear what the optimal arrangement is from a footy perspective. The limiting factor is clearly $$$. Put Caro hate aside.

So both Mitchell and Clarkson are flat out liars? Another year in BH won't make Mitchell a better coach for the next 10 years at Hawthorn?

This is what we must believe. Despise Kennett/Board as much as you like, but in order to believe that this is all a lie you have to believe that both Clarkson and Mitchell are weak-kneed (at best) or active supporters (at worst) of the lie.

 

[The hands of stone]

Been a pretty decent own goal with how we are handling this .
Would always see other clubs thinking gee I'm glad we are stable and not a mess like them , well now its us unfortunately.

Mitchell doesn't have an issue with Clarko per say , but was always very low odds this 'succesion' was going to work .

Just hoping we can actually have crowds for our last game .......what a flat ending for a club and AFL legend that would be .

 

[Bardo State]

So both Mitchell and Clarkson are flat out liars? Another year in BH won't make Mitchell a better coach for the next 10 years at Hawthorn?

This is what me must believe. Despise Kennett/Board as much as you like, but in order to believe that this is all a lie you have to believe that both Clarkson and Mitchell are weak-kneed (at best) or active supporters (at worst) of the lie.

Coaches lie to the press all the time. To save face for their club, their players or themselves. Or to gain tiny advantages with late changes and the like. It's a key part of the job description! They're both professionals who aren't just gonna tell journos they aren't happy with things at the club.

"Look Ralphy, I want to be coaching this club long term but the board want to go in another direction. I'm not happy about it but I'm contracted for another year at a great salary with juicy clauses and I still think the club is better off with me coaching next year than Sam. Unless I get paid out or another club gives me a huge offer, I'll be staying put."

Not gonna happen.

And if a year coaching Box Hill will make Sam a better coach, then a year of coaching Hawthorn will make him that much better.

 

[rei154]

I wonder, if this is credible and we end up with Smitchell HC next year whether or not it'd lead to a few of the senior players potentially leaving earlier too.

Would be real sad for us to lose Clarko to another club due to bad blood if we're mishandling it behind the scenes.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Same. Nothing surer that Clarko won't be there regardless. He'll either take another gig, or we'll pay him out to take a year off. It won't work.

I meant in the opposite way, nobody would know the outcome of mediation, the 4 most senior people at the club all hate the media, so now we are to believe carro has a leak feeding her information because parties are unhappy?

We don’t air dirty laundry so I ask why the intentional leaks something else at play me thinks

 

[Carl Spackler]

Coaches lie to the press all the time. To save face for their club, their players or themselves. Or to gain tiny advantages with late changes and the like. It's a key part of the job description! They're both professionals who aren't just gonna tell journos they aren't happy with things at the club.

"Look Ralphy, I want to be coaching this club long term but the board want to go in another direction. I'm not happy about it but I'm contracted for another year at a great salary with juicy clauses and I still think the club is better off with me coaching next year than Sam. Unless I get paid out or another club gives me a huge offer, I'll be staying put."

Not gonna happen.

And if a year coaching Box Hill will make Sam a better coach, then a year of coaching Hawthorn will make him that much better.

So you're going with the Clarkson and Mitchell are liars and one or both are actively undermining the other. I'm not persuaded that's likely.


One more possibility is that one or both of them is tragically wrong. That after embarking together on this succession journey five years ago and taking increasingly committed steps to making it happen, one or both of them has discovered at the last step that they are not up for the challenge. That too is possible but I also am not persuaded.