Shane Heard
Brownlow Medallist
- Mar 11, 2018
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Nah…us and pies are happy with what we have
Besides, there’s too many club champions and premiership stars to choose from if changed
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Opinion Is it time for some clubs to re-name their Best & Fairest awards?
- Thread starter powerrrrrrrrrrrr
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Nah…us and pies are happy with what we have
Besides, there’s too many club champions and premiership stars to choose from if changed
Well I guess it's more important that supporters like their song than randoms on Bigfooty, so good on you. I just find it so hard to watch the players after a win pretend to spontaneously belt out that disjointed song. It just seems so unnatural every time.
Cdog71
Premiership Player
- Sep 21, 2017
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I bought footy boots off Robbie Flower in his store at Forest hills.
If you can come up with 49 greats in the last 50 years it wont be from any time recently.
Cdog71
Premiership Player
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You can go back to the fifties if it helps
Gordon Farkas
Team Captain
- Mar 8, 2020
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You need to read some history. Brent Harvey was a professional footballer who happened to be drafted by North Melbourne. Syd Barker was a towering figure in a critical phase for North that ultimastely led to their admission to the then VFL. I would go as far as to say that had Barker not been involved at North they would likely have remained in the VFA, and ultimately gone the way of clubs like Brunswick, Prahran and Yarraville who met their demise around the onset of the national AFL competition era. That he Captain-Coached two VFL flags at Essendon whilst North were in the VFA was a mere accident of an anticipated merger between North and Essendon.
He also spent time in his early days playing for the now defunct Essendon Dreadnoughts in the VFA, and as a 20yo, played a season at Richmond, their first season in the VFL, validating him as a person.
If the North Melbourne B&F was to be re-named after a player then, let's face it, its most successful and influential player has been Wayne Carey.
If it was to be the Carey Medal then I suggest that on each B&F night the winner of said medal gets up on stage and makes a solemn vow to honour and cherish the medal, but other team mates would be allowed to covet it and try to pinch it from him.
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We have to blame somebody, I suppose.
Sure there were better players before and after Trevor Barker that have worn the red white and black.
But there is no player that gave more to this club than Barks.
Knocked back enormous contracts to chase success to play at the club when it was on its knees in the 80s
A BMW that he won for winning the club BnF he donated back to the club to raffle off.
I would be seething if the club ever changed the name.
He has the saints BnF and Sandringham's oval named in his Honour. His fathers name is honoured by Cheltenham FC ground named after him
But there is no player that gave more to this club than Barks.
Knocked back enormous contracts to chase success to play at the club when it was on its knees in the 80s
A BMW that he won for winning the club BnF he donated back to the club to raffle off.
I would be seething if the club ever changed the name.
He has the saints BnF and Sandringham's oval named in his Honour. His fathers name is honoured by Cheltenham FC ground named after him
- Apr 12, 2012
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players look quite happy too singing it. Thanks for your concern. Enjoy the GF
- Thread starter
- #134
Im not going to pretend like I know the history of Trevor Barker or the impact he had on the Saints, but why is he held in such high regard when others have achieved and contributed so much to the club? No disrespect to him but the saints have had some incredible players who could be argued are just as deserving of the honour
If it wasn’t him, who would be next in line for the Saints for the honour?
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Seems like a decent player.
- Thread starter
- #136
Absolutely he stilll remains as a champion of the club and game.
Who from the lions is perhaps up there to take the gong from Merret-Murray given recent club history?
- Apr 29, 2009
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The whole premise of this thread is seriously wonky. The entire purpose of conferring a name on these awards is to honour that specific individual, not as some kind of temporary 'generational' thing, barely less transitory than a naming rights sponsor for a stadium, but in perpetuity: those who come after and achieve greatly with and for the club have the honour of winning such awards. In time, if their legacy is seen as worthy enough, such modern players might also give their names to other club awards, or grounds or facilities or programs or any number of other elements that constitute a club - building on the existing foundations rather than 'supplanting' what came before.
As Meteoric Rise mentioned, there are specific cases where a change might be justified, and the fact that some other more recent individuals have since also left a lasting legacy at their club is really not one of them. If anything, the fact you're questioning the relative merit of the current name-givers' legacies is all the more reason for clubs to retain the existing name, guarding against the recency bias on display in this thread. (It hasn't stopped you saying downright incorrect things, like that Syd Barker "played/coached more games under the Essendon brand" - he played close to 14 seasons at North and merely three at Essendon - but it at least compels you to consider his legacy, which expunging his name from the B&F in favour of a modern great doesn't.)
As Meteoric Rise mentioned, there are specific cases where a change might be justified, and the fact that some other more recent individuals have since also left a lasting legacy at their club is really not one of them. If anything, the fact you're questioning the relative merit of the current name-givers' legacies is all the more reason for clubs to retain the existing name, guarding against the recency bias on display in this thread. (It hasn't stopped you saying downright incorrect things, like that Syd Barker "played/coached more games under the Essendon brand" - he played close to 14 seasons at North and merely three at Essendon - but it at least compels you to consider his legacy, which expunging his name from the B&F in favour of a modern great doesn't.)
It is explained already in his thread. He sacrificed his own personal best interests and always acted in the interests of the St Kilda FC, during a very weak period for the club on and off the field. He is completely respected by all people in football and I doubt there would ever have been any person or faction of the St Kilda FC that would have ever held him in anything but the highest esteem. He got much bigger offers to go to much stronger clubs, where he would have no doubt starred in Grand Finals etc. Almost anyone in his position would have taken those opportunities for their own benefit. Barker never played in a final. But he stayed out of loyalty to a very poor club. You can only think he did this because he wanted the club to be better for others that followed. And it has been.
I saw plenty of Barker play. He was a tremendous player, on the face of it a glamorous high flying player, but in truth, he was an under sized underdog who stood up to some great full forwards and often beat them, fair and square. In terms of current Port players, he stood the same height as Boak, Gray and Motlop, 183cm, 6 ft neat.
If it was within Barker’s character to do so, he could have been similar to Warwick Capper, he had that type of appeal. But he was completely loyal to one club, giving his all in every way. He was a local product, and after his VFL career with St Kilda went on to captain-coach nearby Sandringham in the VFA with enormous success, winning two flags. I never met Barker, but being in the St Kilda zone as a child I mixed with many people who did, and you could tell he must have been a very impressive person just by the way people would explain any interactions with him. He would almost certainly have coached St Kilda from the mid 90’s onwards barring his illness and ultimate death and there is no reason to believe he would not have been a tremendous coach.
Without knowing the precise stories of all the possible people St Kilda or other clubs could name their B & F after, based on what I know of Trevor Barker he is completely worthy of the honour.
- Thread starter
- #141
He played 14 seasons for the VFA when it was an amateur competition with a hand full of non professional clubs.
Does he deserve to continue to hold the title of the award for B&F 100 years later due to contributions during the VFA days from 1909-21 compared to others since (He also played 66 VFL games 21-27) ? I’d say that’s up for debate.
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- Aug 6, 2021
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Could also set up a female mannequin for the winning player to assault on the way up to prove he was worthy of winning the award.
I don’t think you get it. Syd Barker proved beyond any doubt his worth in the VFL when through no fault of his own, and at the behest of the North Melbourne FC, he found himself signed up to Essendon in anticipation of a merger with the Roos, which would effectively have seen North Melbourne playing in the VFL at their own home ground. I think the merger was blocked by the the State Government after heavy lobbying by the VFA. I think it is right to say because of this he was banned from returning to the VFA for a certain period, or maybe for life. So he got on with it, and Captain-Coached Essendon to 2 flags, in 1923 and 1924, by which time he was in his late 30’s. Before this, the nomadic Essendon FC had been weak for about 10 seasons. You can read about the mess of the failed merger attempt here:
North/Essendon rivalry – How it started
Before North Melbourne was admitted to the VFL in 1925, there were multiple rejections.
Can you imagine a 33yo moving from a lower competition now, and seamlessly within a year of his arrival at the higher ranking club take over as Captain-Coach, then lead them to 2 flags in his 2nd and 3rd years in the role? You have to be pretty special to do that. And he was.
North Melbourne FC has in reality existed continually, sometimes under different names, since 1869. For some time I think around the 1880’s for example it was known as the Hotham FC. It was twice kicked out of the VFA altogether for what was seen as the treasonous act of trying to join the VFL. Both times the club had to disband and reform in order to compete in the VFA. Anyway, one of those moments was 1907, about when Barker started playing senior footy. The other time was in 1921 when the failed merger bid with Essendon occurred. In between, from 1909 to 1920, North largely dominated the VFA, at one point winning over 50 matches in succession. This coincided with Barker’s time at the club, and he is seen as the chief figure in that success. As I wrote before, but for these powerful Syd Barker-led years, it must have been doubtful North would have ultimately gained entry to the VFL for season 1925. Even his success at Essendon possibly played a part in people realising just how good North had been in his period there.
There is no doubt that the North Melbourne FC has just about the most colourful history of any of the Melbourne clubs, in terms of the twists and turns the club has taken along its journey.
Syd Barker himself seems to be barely celebrated by the Essendon FC despite his monumental achievements, and I suspect that is because he is and was always seen as a North Melbourne player and person.
Edit: I don’t think it would be stretching things too far to say that had North been admitted to the VFL before Barker’s rise to prominence as a player, they would likely have done very well in the VFL during his career.
Also worth noting the VFA at that time, whilst inferior to the stronger VFL, was probably no more amateur than the VFL was. Certainly by the depression era players like Collingwood champion goal kicker Ron Todd were leaving the VFL in their prime to play for much better money in the VFA. Many players just played for their local club, so if you lived in Brunswick or North Melbourne or Prahran, that might be who you played your career for even if you were good enough to play in the VFL. So any assertion that Syd Barker must have been somehow an inferior player or club figure due to playing in the lesser league is not necessarily correct. In fact I think he proved that totally incorrect in his time at Essendon.
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Highwayleopard
Rookie
- Oct 2, 2014
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Some of these medals have obviously existed under names prior to their current namesakes. St. Kilda's was at one point the C.T Suhr medal, for example, also an administrative type. I wouldn't be surprised if one day a medal is renamed to reflect a more contemporary individual, but I don't think it's going to be particularly likely for any of the older clubs.
- Thread starter
- #145
There seems to be very little information regarding the history of the Saints B&F award which perhaps some Saints fans could fill in.
But it seems that it was renamed the John Barker Award in the 1990s, so relatively recent in terms of their history.
Was it the C T Suhr medal before that and they changed it from one person to another in their honour? Or was it simply referred to as the B&F prior to its current name?
Either way, again it suggests clubs will make changes over time which may be reflective of their more recent history and those involved.
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I can't agree OP. Nice to have that historical link to more formative days of the club when character and excellence was instilled. Occasionally it might change depending on the circumstance but generally it shouldn't be.
- Thread starter
- #147
Interesting to see that it took the eagles 26 years to rename their club champion award in honour of Worsfold.
Potentially a similar approach will be taken by the Suns as the wait for an appropriate person for it to be named after.
Worsfold was an interesting choice from the outside. I imagine their could be strong arguments for their first premiership coach, first captain, first B&F winner (Malaxos who sounds like he was a great player in WA) etc to have taken the honour as well.
- Banned
- #149
There's your answer
- Thread starter
- #150
If that’s your whole argument then you have clearly misinterpreted the purpose of this thread.
If awards such as the Brownlow/Coleman are considered relics of the VFL system and you are happy for them to change, why does that same logic not apply to B&F awards which can also be described as relics from the old VFL/VFA days in some instances.
We are not talking about renaming awards every 20 years or ones just recently named in honour of someone, we are talking about ones named 80-100 years ago. If other awards named during that time frame are now relics which don’t apply to the current AFL, then should the B&F in some cases also be changed as per your argument too?
Also, I don’t think you understand the term ‘cancel culture’ if you think that’s applicable to this topic and refer to anything that changes over time as being ‘cancel culture’. Change does not equal cancel culture.
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