List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

[Mr Magic]

If they want more early picks in the draft, then wtf would they trade us pick 9?

They want 2022 picks and we have 15 and 28.

Dunno maybe this suits them and maybe they can get what they want with these picks . The draft is a little hard to read and with some depth pick 28 might suit them apart from 15

We could trade 2022 picks but I do not think they can currently give us something we want unless third party involved. We could keep 15 and trade our 2022 first

That way we could get Ward/Callaghan at 3, Goater at 9, and a few others with later picks including pick 19(or the Bulldogs first)

 

[RJKTiger]

Bookmark it.

Don't you think Bont has a high apex now?

What makes you think Bont will reach Dusty levels?

What makes you think he will stop? He was sensational this year & has continually grown his game. What makes you think that he will just "stop"?

Only injury will halt any growth in his game, he is a top 5 player in this league

 

[jetbhag]

Graham, Bolton will go to another level next year they are at the right age and have played 50+ games, and have shown more than glimpses of what they can become.

I'm excited to see what this pre season does for RCD, Dow and Stack (if he re signs). They'll put on muscle and build there tanks

 

[Mr Magic]

What makes you think he will stop? He was sensational this year & has continually grown his game. What makes you think that he will just "stop"?

Only injury will halt any growth in his game, he is a top 5 player in this league

I am not saying he will not stop. He can maintain the rage for another six years, or so, I am just saying he will not go to another level.

Did Pendlebury go to another level after 25? I do not think so. I do not think Carey was better after 24

 

[TheGhostOfMaurice]

Graham, Bolton will go to another level next year they are at the right age and have played 50+ games, and have shown more than glimpses of what they can become.

I'm excited to see what this pre season does for RCD, Dow and Stack (if he re signs). They'll put on muscle and build there tanks

And Rioli. Mansell. Hopefully Cumberland Miller.


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[Azzleberry]

So looking at our list, we are going to potentially have 3-4 spots open for the draft.

Picks 7, 15, 26, 28, 40, 44, Chol compo (~45) and CCJ Trade.

Given the plethora of picks, it's clear to me we are going to package picks up and move both;
1- up this draft order; and
2- into 2022 draft to draft replacements when we lose Riewoldt, Cotchin, Edwards and likely have ~5 spots open in 2022.

I think in an ideal scenario we end up with 2x top 10 picks and another within the top 30 whilst also adding at least another 2nd rounder to F22 picks.

There's a few ways we can do this;
1 - package 28, 44 & 45 for Dogs pick 17
2 - CCJ and 40 for North pick 20
3- picks 7 and 15 for pick 3 and 2022 second rounder
4- look to use 17 & 20 for something around pick 8-10

Also worth noting that our later picks will come in a bit as player bids eat up picks so our 40s might be 2-3 spots higher.

2021- We then have picks 3, ~9 & 26 which could be Callaghan, Amiss, Bazzo (future spine is set)
2022 - Have our 1st round pick and both ours and Gold Coasts 2nd round picks, so maybe another 3x top 30 picks to go again.

I know most want us to go mids but I think we should really look to get our talls replaced so they have a year or 2 developing from Jack, Tarrant et.

 

[RJKTiger]

I know this guy is mainly being reported in trade talks due to his SA roots, but I would really hope the club had a good look, chat and enquire on Izak Rankine

23

Izak Rankine

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

5star

G

2.0

5star

. I know his 2021 sucked but I am convinced the club can mould him into an elite talent in the exact same way and form as Shai Bolton

29

Shai Bolton

Age

25

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

- them both together with a matured Dusty would form an elite offensive triangle around Lynch that can also rotate into the midfield for clearances. I reckon there is a great player for how we play in Izak, just needs the right system around him. I think his value has dropped a lot & we could get him relatively cheap. If Nth be too smart in their boots with a trade for CCJ, we should definitely make sure we keep negotiating with GC either way & keep them interested. Offer a future 2nd & CCJ for Izak - see what they say. They might really want CCJ that much and the idea of staying in "the race" might make them flinch a bit. CCJ might not be able to be swung to stay at Tigerland, but he might be swayed to go to Gold Coast

 

[AstuteTiger]

We’ve gotta improve our engine room to challenge next year I reckon. 3 first round picks may assist.

Spot on! And maybe we can try a thing called pressure because Jon Pierik at The Age has just untapped the secret behind the dees stunning GF victory!
You know the Melbourne way lol or does he mean the RICHMOND WAY!

I am pretty sure that the blueprint for best ever all over the ground pressure team was set by Richmond which netted 3 flags in 4 years and thus other teams including the dees have modelled their game plan around. Jon Perik don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

A premiership blueprint: The numbers behind the Demons’ rise
What was the Melbourne way? Put simply, it was a game built on pressure across the ground, winning the contest no matter how difficult.

 

[Tygrys]

Nah I am not that keen on Ben King, let other like Saints fight for him.

I would rather put faith in JR and Lynch than chase Ben King.

Ben King will be a good if not great player but I do not think he suits our list and strategy at the moment

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand the faith thing. Riewoldt is 32 and next year is most likely his last. Tom Lynch is younger but not adverse to injury and with Jack most likely going will need support. That support would have come from CCJ and Chol but they are going. Moreover, KPFs are very thin on the ground in this draft with perhaps the only really good one the Darcy father/son.

Would he want to come to Richmond? Could we satisfy Gold Coast trade demands. Would he fit comfortably in our salary cap? I have no idea?

But as someone that loathes selling the farm to get big fish and is implacably opposed to giving away high draft picks for players with only a few years left to play...damn I can't think of anyone in next years trade period that would fit our list needs better than King. Frankly the timing and symmetry would be pretty well perfect.

 

[Mr Magic]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand the faith thing. Riewoldt is 32 and next year is most likely his last. Tom Lynch is younger but not adverse to injury and with Jack most likely going will need support. That support would have come from CCJ and Chol but they are going. Moreover, KPFs are very thin on the ground in this draft with perhaps the only really good one the Darcy father/son.

Would he want to come to Richmond? Could we satisfy Gold Coast trade demands. Would he fit comfortably in our salary cap? I have no idea?

But as someone that loathes selling the farm to get big fish and is implacably opposed to giving away high draft picks for players with only a few years left to play...damn I can't think of anyone in next years trade period that would fit our list needs better than King. Frankly the timing and symmetry would be pretty well perfect.

Ben King is not JR, a proven all timer. Ben King might be great but he is only young and will not be the difference anyway.

Most likely JR will play on after next year, why would he not for a player at his level?


Are you trying to trade Ben King for Lynch? Is that what your trying because what makes you think Lynch and King works?

Even if it was Lynch and King how does a team win with that much in the forward line and no room to invest in the rest of the midfield and backline compete?

 

[TigerRoar2012]

Lol fk me people want to trade Dusty now? Never change BF.

Have you all forgotten who won the premiership last year? And the year before? And 2 years before that?

Whos gone from our 2020 premiership squad?
-Astbury? Replaced by Tarrant.
-Houli? Replaced by Stack/Mansell.

Literally everyone else is playing next year. Yes, Astbury & Houli are losses and you could make an argument Riewoldt/Cotchin have regressed/declining, however in that same breath you could make the argument all of Balta, Baker, Bolton & Short have all improved immensely since that premiership, and we have young talent coming through who weren’t around then.

On the weekend the Dees were at their very best and looked unstoppable. You know who also looked unstoppable just 12 months ago? A Richmond side who were injury-free and playing at their best. But by all means - keep suggesting these ridiculous trades and show BF why Richmond fans are often regarded as the worst in the league (at jumping on their own when down).

 

[Mr Magic]

Lol fk me people want to trade Dusty now? Never change BF.

Have you all forgotten who won the premiership last year? And the year before? And 2 years before that?

Whos gone from our 2020 premiership squad?
-Astbury? Replaced by Tarrant.
-Houli? Replaced by Stack/Mansell.

Literally everyone else is playing next year. Yes, Astbury & Houli are losses and you could make an argument Riewoldt/Cotchin have regressed/declining, however in that same breath you could make the argument all of Balta, Baker, Bolton & Short have all improved immensely since that premiership, and we have young talent coming through who weren’t around then.

On the weekend the Dees were at their very best and looked unstoppable. You know who also looked unstoppable just 12 months ago? A Richmond side who were injury-free and playing at their best. But by all means - keep suggesting these ridiculous trades and show BF why Richmond fans are often regarded as the worst in the league (at jumping on their own when down).

How does Rankine get ahead of Stack in the 22 anyway? At least Stack can do it at both ends forward and back.

Ha ha, at least I did not say trade Dusty

 

[Tygrys]

Ben King is not JR, a proven all timer. Ben King might be great but he is only young and will not be the difference anyway.

Most likely JR will play on after next year, why would he not for a player at his level?


Are your trying to trade Ben King for Lynch? Is that why your trying because what makes you think Lynch and King works?

Even if it was Lynch and King how does a team win with that much in the forward line and no room to invest in the rest of the midfield and backline?

King has kicked 76 goals since he was drafted in 2019. He has so much speed that he won the Grand Final Sprint in his debut year. This is all from a 202 cm tall and remember talls are suppose to take time to develop. He has done everything to justify his top ten selection and more. If he were to announce that he wanted to return home the frenzy to get his services would be almost un-precedented. At his age he's a freak and a gun player.

And no he is not a Riewoldt clone (we probably won't see another Riewoldt again for a generation or two) but with his agility and pace etc and being over ten years younger than Riewoldt he could still compliment Lynch very well indeed (and no I'm not trying to swap one for the other)

And most likely Riewoldt won't play on after next year. He might, but you have to make the assumption that a 33 year old probably won't, injury and age would have taken it's toll, or the club very well might tap him on the shoulder like they did to Houli. And even if he did by some chance it's very likely he won't be the same Riewoldt and will need to be managed through the season.

But yeah you're right, he would cost big time. I'm not even 100 percent sure that it would be worth it when GC finally lay their demand on the table and we see how much we'd have to give up. Plus chances are he'll go somewhere else. But yeah in terms of fitting our list needs, at the right time and at the right price (if there is in-fact a right price) it's a no-brainer.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I love how this board is constantly trying to retire our champs soon as they hit 30/31

meanwhile
Franklin wants to play on after 2022
Selwood will turn 34 and wants to continue
Goldstein 33 and just coming into his prime
Silk retired early at 38
Mummy might play as a 36 year old
Boak signed a 5 year deal as a 33 year old
Pendles 34
Hawkins - 33 and AA

Whats our rush here guys ?
For all we know after 6 months off and mentally reset and no capt duties cotch might get back to doing cotch things
Edwards could be the next Silk
Jack will kick his usual 45-60 goals as a 3nd fwd
Tarrant will think he is 28 again with Grimes , Balta , Vlastuin , Broad by his side

 

[chriso11]

I love how this board is constantly trying to retire our champs soon as they hit 30/31

meanwhile
Franklin wants to play on after 2022
Selwood will turn 34 and wants to continue
Goldstein 33 and just coming into his prime
Silk retired early at 38
Mummy might play as a 36 year old
Boak signed a 5 year deal as a 33 year old
Pendles 34
Hawkins - 33 and AA

Whats our rush here guys ?
For all we know after 6 months off and mentally reset and no capt duties cotch might get back to doing cotch things
Edwards could be the next Silk
Jack will kick his usual 45-60 goals as a 3nd fwd
Tarrant will think he is 28 again with Grimes , Balta , Vlastuin , Broad by his side

Agree, we could be the next Geelong!

just kidding … I agree with much of your post

did Boak really sign a 5yr deal as a 33 year old

 

[Noidnadroj]

I'm saying go all for a flag. Read the rest of my post rather than stopping at lets trade Dusty.

The reality of it is players like Dusty want win flags not be in the beginning of a rebuild.

We are more chance of a flag if Dow, RCD or Ross become staples of our midfield by season’s end than getting Mitchell. He’s just not dynamic enough whilst Dow and RCD in particular provide the potential of an exciting edge. Mitchell also cannot play anywhere else, so he takes a full season of development from a young mid.



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[Karp3_dm]

Graham, Bolton will go to another level next year they are at the right age and have played 50+ games, and have shown more than glimpses of what they can become.

I'm excited to see what this pre season does for RCD, Dow and Stack (if he re signs). They'll put on muscle and build there tanks

Stack gonna go to Superman level
RCD will improve his consistency no doubt
Dow will build nicely with flash’s of brilliance

 

[nugget_12]

Feel like as the younger mids up their game and become more reliable we will see Dusty much more forward as he plays later into his career and him alone is quite a handy replacement for Jack if he finishes up next season.

Dusty and Lynch along with resting Nank/Soldo provides the structure of 2 talls and 3rd medium fwd while we develop a couple KPF’s potentially from this draft or if we are targeting one from another club in a couple years.

For that to keep us contending though we need a big jump in the middle from the likes of RCD/Ross/Cumberland etc or we draft a big bodied mid this draft that’s a contested beast or ofcourse trade for one who’s in that age bracket.

Think Graham takes cotchs role that’s a no brainer and Shai will spend more time in there aswell, if Prestia gets a good run of injuries we actually still have a potent midfield that plays their roles better than most so it’s not doom and gloom, just need the boys from the last few drafts to be consistent enough to push the older players into retirement so we aren’t relying on them to try extend the last golden 4yrs but start a new run of contending years.

 

[Mr Magic]

King has kicked 76 goals since he was drafted in 2019. He has so much speed that he won the Grand Final Sprint in his debut year. This is all from a 202 cm tall and remember talls are suppose to take time to develop. He has done everything to justify his top ten selection and more. If he were to announce that he wanted to return home the frenzy to get his services would be almost un-precedented. At his age he's a freak and a gun player.

And no he is not a Riewoldt clone (we probably won't see another Riewoldt again for a generation or two) but with his agility and pace etc and being over ten years younger than Riewoldt he could still compliment Lynch very well indeed (and no I'm not trying to swap one for the other)

And most likely Riewoldt won't play on after next year. He might, but you have to make the assumption that a 33 year old probably won't, injury and age would have taken it's toll, or the club very well might tap him on the shoulder like they did to Houli. And even if he did by some chance it's very likely he won't be the same Riewoldt and will need to be managed through the season.

But yeah you're right, he would cost big time. I'm not even 100 percent sure that it would be worth it when GC finally lay their demand on the table and we see how much we'd have to give up. Plus chances are he'll go somewhere else. But yeah in terms of fitting our list needs, at the right time and at the right price (if there is in-fact a right price) it's a no-brainer.

Ha ha, that means two million for two players fighting for the ball nearly the same way.

What if Stack kicks more goals than King and Lynch and then stops Cameron playing Brisbane in the back pocket?

 

[RJKTiger]

Lol fk me people want to trade Dusty now? Never change BF.

Have you all forgotten who won the premiership last year? And the year before? And 2 years before that?

Whos gone from our 2020 premiership squad?
-Astbury? Replaced by Tarrant.
-Houli? Replaced by Stack/Mansell.

Literally everyone else is playing next year. Yes, Astbury & Houli are losses and you could make an argument Riewoldt/Cotchin have regressed/declining, however in that same breath you could make the argument all of Balta, Baker, Bolton & Short have all improved immensely since that premiership, and we have young talent coming through who weren’t around then.

On the weekend the Dees were at their very best and looked unstoppable. You know who also looked unstoppable just 12 months ago? A Richmond side who were injury-free and playing at their best. But by all means - keep suggesting these ridiculous trades and show BF why Richmond fans are often regarded as the worst in the league (at jumping on their own when down).

Yep. Tarrant is a downgrade on 2020 Astbury.

Mansell/Stack are a downgrade on 2020 Houli

The other consideration is that almost every player that played in the 2020 GF except for Baker & Bolton has seemingly gone backwards. Most due to age and constant injury, others due to poor form or becoming stagnant from playing one dimensional roles for 5 years straight. No matter how you look at it, its incredibly difficult to see the 2022 Richmond being better than the 2020 Tigers.

 

[db26]

Yep. Tarrant is a downgrade on 2020 Astbury.

Mansell/Stack are a downgrade on 2020 Houli

The other consideration is that almost every player that played in the 2020 GF except for Baker & Bolton has seemingly gone backwards. Most due to age and constant injury, others due to poor form or becoming stagnant from playing one dimensional roles for 5 years straight. No matter how you look at it, its incredibly difficult to see the 2022 Richmond being better than the 2020 Tigers.

Mate you never backup your posts tho honestly .You know we won 3 flags in 5 years so blind Freddy knows you must rejuvenate and change personal or you expect the next Cotch and Jack in the vfl ready to go.The one dimension roles our players had you mentioned delivered 3 flags in 5 years so what's your point there makes no sense ?.

We got the picks this year hit the draft. So going of you one bad season most players went backwards how about we give them a full preseason then will talk.We need the next generation of players to step up now that's we're the improvement comes to Rcd , Stack ,Ross , Dow , Miller etc.

Tarrant is better defender then Dave and less injury prone.Stack and Mansell are still developing, but ceiling is how high Stack wants to go with his talent.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Yep. Tarrant is a downgrade on 2020 Astbury.

Mansell/Stack are a downgrade on 2020 Houli

The other consideration is that almost every player that played in the 2020 GF except for Baker & Bolton has seemingly gone backwards. Most due to age and constant injury, others due to poor form or becoming stagnant from playing one dimensional roles for 5 years straight. No matter how you look at it, its incredibly difficult to see the 2022 Richmond being better than the 2020 Tigers.

I’m a big fan of Astbury but only the most one eyed tiger fan would suggest that he’s a better defender than Tarrant. Tarrant is borderline AA quality if fit. If he settles into our backline well and releases Grimes then our backline starts looking very strong.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Agree, we could be the next Geelong!

just kidding … I agree with much of your post

did Boak really sign a 5yr deal as a 33 year old

H sure did












in 2011

 

[Bird Man]

Round 1 we lost Vlastuin
Round 3 we lost cotchin, Prestia and mcintosh
Round 6 we lost lambert and dusty
Round 8 we lost edwards and mid week we lost Bolton.

We got smashed by swans while being 3 down on the bench, unlucky not to beat port in round 4 in Adelaide, then smashed by Dees without our midfield and losing our best player and another midfielder Mid game.

We were unlucky not to be 5-2 heading into round 8 still (after destroying the dogs sans Dusty,

We also usually start poorly (2019 & 2020 being prime examples smashed by pies, GWS, hawks, Saints, dogs in both those years early).

We came off a shortened preseason had the most 6 day break games, we’re mentally exhausted after 4 years of finals football with the bonus of covid/lockdowns etc. We have plenty of valid reasons for a let down season and the players and coach deserve the benefit of the doubt, and another chance to prove themselves.

I don’t get the fear of being a Hawks or cats either. We can’t avoid it, that’s the point of the cap and draft. What can’t be guaranteed is flags (See lions, Freo, blues, bombers, port, Dees (first rebuild with Watts, Scully, Trengove etc..) Saints, gws, gc) who have all got high draft picks in last 15-20 years. So when the chance is there we have to go all in. And if we miss out, the AFL will reward us with top picks anyway.

And now we’re well setup off field we can be more like WCE and Swans who go down and take some top picks and rebuild quicker/stronger.

What you say makes sense and ill concede to that point.

 

[GoTigers2015]

In Tarrant
Out Astbury, Houli (ret), Naish, Garthwaite,(delisted) Chol (FA) and CCJ (trade)
DES - rookie (delisted)

Leaves 5 spots on the senior list.

Trade 28 + 40 +44 to WB for #17
CCJ + Chol compo for #20 + Tarrant

Go to the draft with 7,15,17, 20, 26

A good chance the club would do live trades on draft night

Gold Coast confident that Gibcus will be available at #7 when it is their pick.
Trade pick 7+15 for 3 + 22

If a club bid on Fahey, for example Sydney at #12 then pick 17 becomes pick 20
At pick 20 Saints might to jump in to fend off any chance anyone bid on Owens.

Trade pick 17 for Saints future 1st

3, 20, 22, 26 + Saints future 1st

Will leave one rookie spot after we elevate another rookie.