Who would you rather - The best player in the competition, the best coach, or the best recruiter?

[Freomaniac]

Big Footy and the fascination with list development.

Meanwhile coaches focus on winning flags.

A coach is useless if the recruiter or scout gets crap B grade or C grade or D grade kids

 

[Madas]

Good question
Interesting concept

I’ve gone with recruiter

Freo are a good case study for your analysis
Had Fyfe for 10 years , practically carried them on his back and it broke him

Then had Lyon - good coach but not great cattle to work with

Then they started recruiting well and all of a sudden there’s help around him and hope in the air

Galvanise that all with a Coach who might not be the best but can be trusted

So in summary ( my opinion)

1. Recruiter
2. Coach
3. Player

 

[emblurr]

Didn't Sam Edmund run with this question in his first segment on SEN on Friday morning from 9 am?

You are correct

 

[Freomaniac]

Good question
Interesting concept

I’ve gone with recruiter

Freo are a good case study for your analysis
Had Fyfe for 10 years , practically carried them on his back and it broke him

Then had Lyon - good coach but not great cattle to work with

Then they started recruiting well and all of a sudden there’s help around him and hope in the air

Galvanise that all with a Coach who might not be the best but can be trusted

So in summary ( my opinion)

1. Recruiter
2. Coach
3. Player

Agreed.

Ross Lyons freos finals side of 2012-15 wasnt a great side. It was limited, especially up forward.

Unlike the current playing group under Justin Longmuir. Solid cattle but some versatility, especially up forward.

Looking at freos season. I think Justin Longmuir is a B grade to B grade plus coach.

Again.... The overall playing squad is solid, but very versatile.

Our recruiting since our drop in 2016 has been solid. 1st round picks on Logue, Brayshaw, Cerra, Sturt, Serong, Young and Henry from 2016-19 has been solid.

Only Sturt is the bad one and that's because he has been injured.

Way better than our 1st round picks from 2007-14.....

 

[RUNVS]

You are correct

Does anyone have a podcast of that?

 

[NetworkNerd]

We already have all 3.

Best player? Cameron? Dangerfield?

Relying on a more even spread is working well for you guys this year.

 

[HairyO]

A coach is useless if the recruiter or scout gets crap B grade or C grade or D grade kids

A good coach (and more importantly a good club) wont let the list managers recruit a bunch of hacks.

They may screw up one year or even 2, but will be moved on.

Unless they are Essendon.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I have no doubt replacing the best player in the AFL with a B Grader would have much less impact than replacing the best coach or recruiter with a b grade version. So the player is relegated to 3rd in importance.

The coach and recruiter are sort of two sides of the same coin. Recruiters have to identify the talent and just as importantly the character of the players. The players need to have certain physical traits but also need to be able to learn, adapt, submit to the team plans and so on, plus not be disruptive for other players. I think this is likely what sets the best recruiters apart, this ability to judge players according to how coachable they will be. Anyone can look at say a 17yo Sydney Stack

44

Sydney Stack

Age

26

Ht

179cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

202.0

3star

D

9.8

2star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.8

4star

MG

133.0

2star

D

16.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

227.4

4star

and see he moves well enough to make it as an AFL player. But recruiters ruled him out of being drafted for reasons that have since been shown to be correct.

Richmond grabbed him after the draft of course. This is where they were backing their coaches to get him to the level required, knowing it would likely be a project. Some positive reports are filtering through now regarding him turning the corner professionally. If this is right and he becomes a consistent AFL player, it is probably a big tick for the coach. In many other cases, the player is easy to coach and it is the recruiter who has been the key.

I was once given the opportunity in the workplace to recruit and train a certain group of employees to form a section of about 12. I inherited 2 poor employees. I recruited the other 10 internally. Of 130 staff I could recruit from I had an agreement not to take any staff rated in the top 50% from any other section. I used two criteria. I wanted smart people or people who are easy to get along with, either of these traits I thought would be fine. I found my 10 people and trained them all. I was probably a competent trainer and manager, at least in that field. We were stunningly successful. The section was immensely successful long after I had departed, so they didn’t need my management. I always thought the key to our success was the recruitment of the right staff. They were manageable and trainable, and ultimately able to lead themselves.

I think if any of your recruiting or coaching is not great you are going nowhere. But imo brilliant recruiting + competent coaching will beat brilliant coaching + competent recruiting. So for me:

1. Recruiter

2. Coach

3. Player

 

[iameviljez]

Best player? Cameron? Dangerfield?

Relying on a more even spread is working well for you guys this year.

Dangerfield in 2016

Possibly Cameron now. IMO there's no one clear standout for best player in the league atm.

 

[Vatreni]

Damien Hardwick. This is one that 90% of the BigFooty population will agree with me on!

What is it that 90% of the people say here about Richmond, 1 gun player (is he the greatest in the history of the game?), 21 role players (that's what they said, some would say that is supported by the Tigers lack of AA representation during this glorious run), and 3 premierships. Yep, the answer is Damien Hardwick!

 

[Pistol Night]

Geelong in 2011 and Hawthorn in 2014 lost arguably one of the best players in the comp the previous year and won flags. Recruiting is clearly number 1

 

[Donakebab]

I'd be happy with any of the three atm.

 

[Engimal v3]

No brainer

Recruiter easy

Hasn't helped Essendon

 

[Vatreni]

Geelong in 2011 and Hawthorn in 2014 lost arguably one of the best players in the comp the previous year and won flags. Recruiting is clearly number 1

The Hawks were too Buddy concious and that was something Clarko wanted to change.

Normally losing a player like Gary jnr would be a massive blow, but you got to remember that Geelong was stacked with father sons and early draft picks, so much so that the father son rule was changed because of it's unfairness. Gone are the days when recruiters can get a gun with their first round pick and a projected no1 pick at pick 40 or whatever it was.

 

[Pistol Night]

I'd be happy with any of the three atm.

Youve got Dodoro. 1 down

 

[M Malice]

I would rather the best umpire be on our side.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Best player? Cameron? Dangerfield?

Relying on a more even spread is working well for you guys this year.

I was thinking Cameron.

 

[Pistol Night]

I was thinking Cameron.

Theres no one in the comp like Danger when hes on. Bull

 

[Kirkswan]

I would rather the best umpire be on our side.

It's not the best umpires you need to worry about... they make little difference to the game.

It's the worst you want on your side...

 

[Kirkswan]

Good thread!

If you're not in Melbourne, I think it's the coach. Having a good culture can negate the go home factor.

Victoria: Recruiter, Coach Player

Interstate: Coach, Recruiter, Player

No matter how you look at it, the player is last on the list imo...

 

[Golumless]

Best coach and it isn't even close.

A poorly ran club will ruin a great recruiter and waste a great player. A great coach changes the entire complexion of a club and of the three, the only one that offers a genuine pathway to success.

 

[t_94]

Big Footy and the fascination with list development.

Meanwhile coaches focus on winning flags.

Coaches are plus minus 10 percent. People who overrate coaches tend to think football is as complicated as splitting the atom. It really isn’t. Have a team of good players and you’re most of the way there.

 

[HairyO]

Coaches are plus minus 10 percent. People who overrate coaches tend to think football is as complicated as splitting the atom. It really isn’t. Have a team of good players and you’re most of the way there.

So Noble would have got Collingwood to 5th?

 

[endure]

Very good question. I keep coming back to coach or recruiter. Would the high quality players the recruiter gets stay around without a great coach?

I'll still say recruiter.

 

[Sttew]

This is a question I have wondered over the last few days and I am quite curious about what other people think.

Having the best player has obvious benefits, not only on the field in terms of performance but also off the field in terms of marketing and also possibly convincing other players to come to your club to play with that player.

Having the best coach also makes sense as well as a great coach can make a team that maybe is not the best on paper into a great and very successful team, coming up with strategies to pick apart the opposition and able to change game plans on the fly. It also means potentially having a really happy culture at the club as a great coach usually creates a great culture, where players want to stay and other players want to come and join the team.

A recruiter though is pretty obvious too, and personally the one I would go for as a recruiter who is very good with selections can create such an advantage in bringing in talented young players, and a constant stream of talented young players as well, taking the picks they are given and not only nailing the top picks but also doing well with the lower down picks as well. I feel like an average coach can be made to look amazing if they have a really good recruiter in their team.

So what would you pick?

Best Player
Player A+
Coach B
Recruiter B

Best Coach
Player B
Coach A+
Recruiter B

Best Recruiter
Player B
Coach B
Recruiter A+

I feel there needs to be a fourth option - Best CEO.

Everything filters down from a good CEO. And you simply cannot appreciate the value of the CEO until you see what's happening at clubs that shall remain nameless where the CEO was erratic.