Training 2021 Pre Season training watch

[hawkdork83]

Just like your username it might be worth ‘being calm’ with young Finn. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him take a similar timeframe to the way Sicily did which by memory was a couple of seasons at Box Hill. It’s also important to remember that the kid was robbed of his first year BH last year.

It's important to remember Sicily was drafted during our dynasty, so it was tough to break in. He also slid due to needing to mature. Neither apply to Finn. I'm curious also, as I note little from pre-season reports and Sam Mitchell left him off our under 22 talent in a recent interview.

This is not saying he is a bust, obviously, but I share the curiosity given that many posters had him as ready made last year. What's holding him back? What does he need to work on?

 

[Bugs1977]

It's important to remember Sicily was drafted during our dynasty, so it was tough to break in. He also slid due to needing to mature. Neither apply to Finn. I'm curious also, as I note little from pre-season reports and Sam Mitchell left him off our under 22 talent in a recent interview.

This is not saying he is a bust, obviously, but I share the curiosity given that many posters had him as ready made last year. What's holding him back? What does he need to work on?

The point I was trying to make is that things click a different times for young players. Last season most definitely didn’t help Finn as he never really got the chance to prove / improve himself at BH. The knock on him was he needed to learn the running patterns but that’s pretty hard to do when your only training with 7-8 or guys. Not saying he’s going to be a superstar but it’s also important to be patient as well.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Cousins is a likely type, liked the look of him late last year but the problem for us is that most sides have a third/fourth rung mid who is as capable or better than him, so it's a huge weight to be carried by Worpel, Chad,Jom and Shiels to outplay and outwork the more talented Oppo starting mids. That's where we've struggled the most post 2016!

 

[The Chad and I]

Cousins is a likely type, liked the look of him late last year but the problem for us is that most sides have a third/fourth rung mid who is as capable or better than him, so it's a huge weight to be carried by Worpel, Chad,Jom and Shiels to outplay and outwork the more talented Oppo starting mids. That's where we've struggled the most post 2016!

Cousins' development is great to see - solid player of excellent character, but his limitations aren't offset by any of his strengths - we have players who do those things better. I still think he should be traded at the end of the season.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Any news on Tim O this pre-season?

Been placed in the older developing player group!

 

[moginie]

Cousins' development is great to see - solid player of excellent character, but his limitations aren't offset by any of his strengths - we have players who do those things better. I still think he should be traded at the end of the season.

Interesting observation.

Who do you believe trains harder or puts in a more disciplined effort?

Because reading training reports over the past four years, that's what stands out in my mind. Here's a young man who doesn't want to be dropped and goes as hard as he can.

He may not be our most gifted, but he works harder than others to put himself in the frame for selection.

 

[Howe Amazing]

Cousins was great towards the end of last season but to me seemed to fade in 2nd half, hopefully he is fitter and will be even better

 

[Judd2Sewell]

There hasn't been much reported about Finn Magginess in the pre-season. When he was recruited there were high hopes for him. His only game last year he didn't impress by all reports. I was just wondering where he was at at the moment. Is he going to be part of the team which hopefully takes us back up the ladder?

He didn't get a chance to impress with there being no VFL.

 

[WWSD]

Cousins was great towards the end of last season but to me seemed to fade in 2nd half, hopefully he is fitter and will be even better

Cousins only spent 77.5% Time On Ground. (Ranked 21st among the Hawthorn players)

 

[Howe Amazing]

Cousins only spent 77.5% Time On Ground. (Ranked 21st among the Hawthorn players)

That might explain it no doubt should be a regular this year

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Each to their own but I had more excitement heading into the 2014 and 2015 seasons than I do now. sh*t football side, key players hurt, dickhead state politicians will lead to fixture chaos and who knows if we'll even be able to attend many games.

I see what you mean but 14 and 15 I knew we were the best team it was whether we could get it done and I struggle with expectations.
100% agree regarding politicians.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Cousins' development is great to see - solid player of excellent character, but his limitations aren't offset by any of his strengths - we have players who do those things better. I still think he should be traded at the end of the season.

Simply using Champion Datas points system, here is an example of his natural progression. (2018 a tougher one since we were a top 4 side).




Would love to see that games tally get to 18+ in 2021 and see where that yearly average sits come seasons end. I'm all on board a player who has clearly demonstrated an ability to improve every year.

 

[kirbatron]

I dont mind Cousins but he needs to sharpen up his disposal, particularly delivery inside 50.

 

[CobberRodgers]

Just on the midfielders topic over the last couple of pages:

I think the main issue isn't the individuals and their form (though there are certainly slumps etc at times due to various reasons, especially last year) it's more the cohesion and roles.

The guys in there atm just don't have that. Mitchell/Worpel/JOM etc jut don't have it sorted yet. Blokes fighting for the same ball, blokes both blocking instead of going the ball, blokes set up in the same area etc.

We want to get better, it'll start in there, and we've got some work to do.

 

[burner1]

Cousins' development is great to see - solid player of excellent character, but his limitations aren't offset by any of his strengths - we have players who do those things better. I still think he should be traded at the end of the season.

I don’t think there’s really that much of a gap between JOM, worpel and cousins. Especially as cousins seems to improve every year, although he struggles for opportunities (how did he only get 6 games when our midfield got flogged most weeks?). He’s better offensively than those two and quicker. Interesting to see where he’d get to with a solid 15-20 games in a season.

His issue is that all the mids he’s competing with are in the leadership group (ie Clarko won’t drop) and similar types. He’s more than up to being the 4/5th mid - the issue is the performance of the 4 ahead of him.

 

[KermitJagger]

The guys in there atm just don't have that. Mitchell/Worpel/JOM etc jut don't have it sorted yet. Blokes fighting for the same ball, blokes both blocking instead of going the ball, blokes set up in the same area etc.

This was my main frustration and I think Brishawk or TheFourPillars put together analysis into how our midfielders get drawn into the ball too much which allows clean and easy clearances if we don't get possession.

Watch Richmond who have a great understanding in their midfield, allowing Dusty to play a high level attacking brand. When they look at their best, Dusty will read the play, trust Cotchin and Prestia to get the clearance and make way for him to get forward of the ball to either link up with the forwards or kick the goal himself.

When you watch the Hawks, Worpel and Titch will both scramble for the ground ball and lose it before being lost by their man because they're on the ground. Cohesion will be important this year.

 

[CobberRodgers]

This was my main frustration and I think Brishawk or TheFourPillars put together analysis into how our midfielders get drawn into the ball too much which allows clean and easy clearances if we don't get possession.

Watch Richmond who have a great understanding in their midfield, allowing Dusty to play a high level attacking brand. When they look at their best, Dusty will read the play, trust Cotchin and Prestia to get the clearance and make way for him to get forward of the ball to either link up with the forwards or kick the goal themselves.

When you watch the Hawks, Worpel and Titch will both scramble for the ground ball and lose it before being lost by their man because they're on the ground. Cohesion will be important this year.

Spot on mate.

We just don't have that yet. The good thing is we have the time now to get it sorted. No expectations this year.

I just want to see individuals grow and improve, but more than anything I want to see the TEAM improve it's cohesion. Going nowhere without it.

 

[KermitJagger]

I don’t think there’s really that much of a gap between JOM, worpel and cousins. Especially as cousins seems to improve every year, although he struggles for opportunities (how did he only get 6 games when our midfield got flogged most weeks?). He’s better offensively than those two and quicker. Interesting to see where he’d get to with a solid 15-20 games in a season.

His issue is that all the mids he’s competing with are in the leadership group (ie Clarko won’t drop) and similar types. He’s more than up to being the 4/5th mid - the issue is the performance of the 4 ahead of him.

He's not quicker. He was playing a far more outside game than those two guys and got the ball in space far more often, you look quicker when you're not getting tackled.

 

[TylerDurden]

Just on the midfielders topic over the last couple of pages:

I think the main issue isn't the individuals and their form (though there are certainly slumps etc at times due to various reasons, especially last year) it's more the cohesion and roles.

The guys in there atm just don't have that. Mitchell/Worpel/JOM etc jut don't have it sorted yet. Blokes fighting for the same ball, blokes both blocking instead of going the ball, blokes set up in the same area etc.

We want to get better, it'll start in there, and we've got some work to do.

Which is a joke. They've been playing together for some time. Mitchell leg break did impact the cohesion somewhat.

 

[Slysh]

I don’t think there’s really that much of a gap between JOM, worpel and cousins. Especially as cousins seems to improve every year, although he struggles for opportunities (how did he only get 6 games when our midfield got flogged most weeks?). He’s better offensively than those two and quicker. Interesting to see where he’d get to with a solid 15-20 games in a season.

His issue is that all the mids he’s competing with are in the leadership group (ie Clarko won’t drop) and similar types. He’s more than up to being the 4/5th mid - the issue is the performance of the 4 ahead of him.

I think this is a little bit of a hot take, i like Cousins but i think it is a fair gap between him and those other 2. He also wasn't getting games because it is so hard to play all of Mitchell, O'meara, Worpel, Shiels, Cousins. The balance is not great and he is clearly behind the other 3 and i would say behind Shiels as well.

I am almost certain he is not quicker than Jaeger and i don't think he is better offensively. He had a more outside role and has the benefit of being the 4th or 5th best mid in the team. Teams put a lot more time in to those other two players. Fingers crossed he ends up better but i am not putting all my stock in that 6 game sample size.

 

[hawkdork83]

Some really good posts about our midfield mix. They didn't work as a collective last year. I think that neither Mitchell or Worpel was willing to sacrifice their game if honest.

The biggest issue for our midfield mix in my opinion is that none of Mitchell, O'Meara, Worpel, Shiels and Cousins have shown an ability to impact the game in another role. Outside of O'Meara in theory, none of these guys would really excel on the outside.

If you look at the grand finalists last year, Richmond have Cotchin and Prestia playing only midfield. They roll Edwards, Dusty and Bolton through there for significant minutes. All three are equally damaging forward. They also have the best high half forward in the game in Lambert (hopefully Moore for us).

The cats had Selwood (now can play wing) and Guthrie (can play half-back) who played only midfield, Danger obviously goes forward and same with Parfitt.

If we don't see Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel in other areas of the ground, I can't see how we play both Shiels and Cousins. I can't see Wingard getting the minutes most in here are calling out for. Perhaps we just need to roll the dice with an O'Meara to the wing and hope that he can have the impact of a Menegola who had to adapt to the role.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

All great teams have plenty in common. One of those things is trust. They (coaches and players)trust each other on field. To win a contest, play to team rules/game plan etc.

I don’t think we have that.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

i don't necessarily want JOM on a wing but i think i would like him playing as the link-up man instead of the ball-getter

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Some really good posts about our midfield mix. They didn't work as a collective last year. I think that neither Mitchell or Worpel was willing to sacrifice their game if honest.

The biggest issue for our midfield mix in my opinion is that none of Mitchell, O'Meara, Worpel, Shiels and Cousins have shown an ability to impact the game in another role. Outside of O'Meara in theory, none of these guys would really excel on the outside.

If you look at the grand finalists last year, Richmond have Cotchin and Prestia playing only midfield. They roll Edwards, Dusty and Bolton through there for significant minutes. All three are equally damaging forward. They also have the best high half forward in the game in Lambert (hopefully Moore for us).

The cats had Selwood (now can play wing) and Guthrie (can play half-back) who played only midfield, Danger obviously goes forward and same with Parfitt.

If we don't see Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel in other areas of the ground, I can't see how we play both Shiels and Cousins. I can't see Wingard getting the minutes most in here are calling out for. Perhaps we just need to roll the dice with an O'Meara to the wing and hope that he can have the impact of a Menegola who had to adapt to the role.

Mitchell & Worpel can rest forward, Mitchell did that at Sydney, Worps, did it for his first year

 

[hawkdork83]

Mitchell & Worpel can rest forward, Mitchell did that at Sydney, Worps, did it for his first year

Yuck. Sorry mate. Neither have shown they are capable as a forward pocket. The players I mentioned, Dusty, Bolton, Edwards, Danger and Parfitt are all damaging goal kickers when forward. Mitchell and Worpel aren't that.

Besides, resting forward isn't really a thing these days given the amount of work you need to do trying to lock the ball in. If you aren't kicking goals, or chasing down players, what's the point playing forward?

It's why we didn't see this at all last year with the two. O'Meara could possibly be capable.