Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[WilloTree]

View attachment 1940469

For reference, this was our Grand Final team.

The real question is who are you replacing with who in THAT line up? Some obvious ones are Dawson with Cox, Sutcliffe with Clark, Serong with Barlow (and that pains me to say as Barlow is probably Top 3 of my all time favourite heart and soul players of all time), Amiss and Mayne, Jackson into D. Pearce with Walters and Ballantyne rotating HF. And that's before you get to the bench spots and the real debatable ones like Crowley with Brayshaw.

Interesting fan exercise for sure, but it does suggest that at the very least the line-ups from each generation are at least comparable which means comparisons between coaches and results is somewhat fair

I always have a bit of a chuckle at the team sheet. Danny Peace literally never played as a forward, And, what on earth is Mundy doing on a wing?

Was Jack Hannath really that close to playing in a GF? Boy. Our depth must have been fingernail deep.

 

[Joao]

Different player I reckon. Pav's strength was versatility rather than being a pure key forward. He was there obviously because we didn't have anyone else. Amiss would be our first pure key forward since Modra. Overall, the bottom 5-10 of our best 22 is far better, imo.

Pav was versatile and was AA everywhere yet still managed to kick 700 goals. Imagine if he didn't spend those seasons in defense or the midfield!

That said, I do think Amiss is going on our Mt Rushmore.

Agree on the bottom 10 part. We're just waiting for all of the top 10 to peak.

 

[Dockeroo]

Serious question - to all those that thought JL wasn't the guy and should be replaced, what is your current thinking?

Do you still have concerns or are you wavering? Or have you done a complete 180 and jumped on board?

This is not a "told you so" post...I'm genuinely interested to hear people's thoughts.

I’ve been a JL critic over the summer I guess, but I desperately do want him to succeed. Felt that he was fully deserving of the chance to prove he can deliver for us in 2024 though, and my bigger frustration was some of his supporters in here talking down expectation for JL this year and suggesting that another non- finals campaign would suffice because we are so young.
I didn’t buy that theory for one second and I reckon the results so far have validated that opinion. I feel with the talent we have that we should be well and truly in the finals mix and missing out again this year is failure. Plain and simple.
Particularly this theory that we don’t have enough 100 game players.
Two of the TOP TEN players in the entire game right now, are in Fremantle jumpers. Two out and out, grade A superstars in Luke Jackson and Caleb Serong.
Games played? 77 and 81.
Neither yet at the mythical 100 game barrier that you somehow need to be at to be considered a true flag contender.

Also - I don’t think too many of us felt that we should be winning the flag in 2024. That’s a stretch too far for most reasonable people. But the likes of Fat Nyfe and The Feeder Club and other have said that we should be playing finals with this list in 2024, given the depth of talent we have. You don’t need a 120 game average on the team to finish 5th or 6th and win a final.
That’s the expectation and benchmark for JL with this level of talent and good on him so far - we are playing decent stuff and competing hard.
Exactly as you’d expect from a well run, high performance outfit.

 

[oldgoat]

He's had one good (probably for many unexpected) win and one expected win. Sorry but two games is not going to shift many people that have built up doubts after four seasons
My position hasn't changed

So Feeder not quite holy rollin yet?
Wonder what it will take?
Its not just two wins but everything coming together, dont you guys get it?
What a miserable approach to fandom, always waiting for everything to go to chit.
Very sad.

 

[The Feeder Club]

So Feeder not quite holy rollin yet?
Wonder what it will take?
Its not just two wins but everything coming together, dont you guys get it?
What a miserable approach to fandom, always waiting for everything to go to chit.
Very sad.

You do you mate, and I'll do me
I just like analysing and posting what I see - the good and the not so good. I'm not waiting/hoping for things to go to s**t, I'm making my own honest predictions/assessments and reflecting them in my posts. I might be right, I might be wrong. For so long as it's a discussion forum, I will post. When it becomes restricted to fanbois like you and all you can do is be a cheerleader, I'll stop posting.
Lobby the mods for the change you want and I'll go away, is my advice

 

[E Shed]

Out of the slightly generation mashed line up you posted...

Forwards: JL with Amiss, Crowley with Walters, one of Farmer or Medhurst with Jackson
Midfield: J Carr with Serong, Bell with Fyfe, M Carr with Brayshaw
Backs: Hadrill with Cox (and I was a BIG Hadrill fan and genuinely think we make finals in 04 and 05 had he not been depleted by injuries), Parker with Ryan (also a big Parker fan but, well, he was limited. He was just really good at punching above his weight due to injuries to guys like Hadrill, Grover and McPharlin...or that year McPharlin played forward)
Interchange: Polak with Young, Thornton with Walker, Ibbotson with Clark.

So that's about half the starting line up, and that's not even factoring in potential for players like Johnson, Erasmus, Young and Clark.

Yeah I know it’s a mashup but people were saying we have our best list ever so I just used the list we had in 2006 by comparison. I thought it would generate some interesting discussions & it did.

I agree on replacing Crowley with Walters but I find it hard to leave Farmer or Medhurst out. Both such pure forwards. Exactly the type we need now.

Also not sure Amiss is ready to replace JL. Maybe Jackson for JL, he’s got to come in somewhere. Agree Ryan, Cox, Clark have to come in but at this stage I’d back Parker or Thornton over Walker in a big game. Parker was so hard to beat.

Hard to leave out premiership players & hard nuts like J Carr & Bell but yeah Fyfe & Serong.

It’s a good debate.

 

[E Shed]

Different player I reckon. Pav's strength was versatility rather than being a pure key forward. He was there obviously because we didn't have anyone else. Amiss would be our first pure key forward since Modra. Overall, the bottom 5-10 of our best 22 is far better, imo.

Pav is a 700 goal hall of famer. Not sure how you can say he’s not a pure key forward. Not many better.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Pav is a 700 goal hall of famer. Not sure how you can say he’s not a pure key forward. Not many better.

He's a CHF that played his best footy rotating through the middle. It's amazing that he kicked 700 of course but he's not that deep, pure full forward. I wouldn't call Nick Reiwoldt a pure key foward for those reasons either, unlike say... Tom Hawkins or Tom Lynch for example. Just my opinion. If Pav was still running around now, him and Amiss would be the perfect pairing.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

I think the current situation will have Longmuir at least coaching at his best. Media in particular were scathing in the clubs 1 year extension for Longmuir but the bottom line is we want our coach in the best climate for coaching.

He’s still coaching for his career but has enough security that that pressure is not hanging over his head. Why would the club give any longer after Lyons extension & the fact they don’t have to pay out the full contract if sacked in any case.

This is the ultimate situation to get the best out of our coach to see if he is up for it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Really, the one year thing was backing him to start the year well. The media and social media had their shots, it got played out quickly, they won and had nothing more to talk about.

It has played out perfectly so far. JL has security, the club has flexibility and the extension is not a distraction to be asked at every presser

 

[WilloTree]

Then there are the blokes who (IMO) just weren't that good and certainly not better than numerous 2024 players.

Haddrill
Thornton
Polak

gasp! Not dancing-legs Thornton. I won't have it.

 

[Wray27]

Geez, I thought this was a thread about the coach.

 

[Purple Jesus]

gasp! Not dancing-legs Thornton. I won't have it.

Hahaha - used to be called Skinny Legs in our house.

 

[blue shark]

Yeah I know it’s a mashup but people were saying we have our best list ever so I just used the list we had in 2006 by comparison. I thought it would generate some interesting discussions & it did.

I agree on replacing Crowley with Walters but I find it hard to leave Farmer or Medhurst out. Both such pure forwards. Exactly the type we need now.

Also not sure Amiss is ready to replace JL. Maybe Jackson for JL, he’s got to come in somewhere. Agree Ryan, Cox, Clark have to come in but at this stage I’d back Parker or Thornton over Walker in a big game. Parker was so hard to beat.

Hard to leave out premiership players & hard nuts like J Carr & Bell but yeah Fyfe & Serong.

It’s a good debate.

I think we can all agree that we can see similarities with the Connolly, Harvey, Lyon’s best years.
The quality is there, albeit some are still very young, but the talent on these
lists is comparable.
Jlo doesn’t have a bottom 8 list. The rebuild has been on the go since 2017.
The only area we truly lack is in the small forwards quality.
Fix that and you can see we should be pushing top 4. End of story.

 

[Mags98]

I’ve been a JL critic over the summer I guess, but I desperately do want him to succeed. Felt that he was fully deserving of the chance to prove he can deliver for us in 2024 though, and my bigger frustration was some of his supporters in here talking down expectation for JL this year and suggesting that another non- finals campaign would suffice because we are so young.
I didn’t buy that theory for one second and I reckon the results so far have validated that opinion. I feel with the talent we have that we should be well and truly in the finals mix and missing out again this year is failure. Plain and simple.
Particularly this theory that we don’t have enough 100 game players.
Two of the TOP TEN players in the entire game right now, are in Fremantle jumpers. Two out and out, grade A superstars in Luke Jackson and Caleb Serong.
Games played? 77 and 81.
Neither yet at the mythical 100 game barrier that you somehow need to be at to be considered a true flag contender.

Also - I don’t think too many of us felt that we should be winning the flag in 2024. That’s a stretch too far for most reasonable people. But the likes of Fat Nyfe and The Feeder Club and other have said that we should be playing finals with this list in 2024, given the depth of talent we have. You don’t need a 120 game average on the team to finish 5th or 6th and win a final.
That’s the expectation and benchmark for JL with this level of talent and good on him so far - we are playing decent stuff and competing hard.
Exactly as you’d expect from a well run, high performance outfit.

you think hes sacked if we miss the finals? clearly the club disagreed hence the 1 year extension prior to a game played

 

[Joao]

I think we can all agree that we can see similarities with the Connolly, Harvey, Lyon’s best years.
The quality is there, albeit some are still very young, but the talent on these
lists is comparable.
Jlo doesn’t have a bottom 8 list. The rebuild has been on the go since 2017.
The only area we truly lack is in the small forwards quality.
Fix that and you can see we should be pushing top 4. End of story.

I don't think "a bottom 8 list" is particularly meaningful these days given how close most of the teams are.

There are a couple of outliers at the top and the bottom in any given season and the difference in the middle is small. Injuries, timing (when you play teams) etc I think make a massive difference.

It's clearly not a bottom 4 list, but where above that it sits is really subjective because all of those other teams would rate their team similarly.

 

[BStaff17]

View attachment 1940469

For reference, this was our Grand Final team.

The real question is who are you replacing with who in THAT line up? Some obvious ones are Dawson with Cox, Sutcliffe with Clark, Serong with Barlow (and that pains me to say as Barlow is probably Top 3 of my all time favourite heart and soul players of all time), Amiss and Mayne, Jackson into D. Pearce with Walters and Ballantyne rotating HF. And that's before you get to the bench spots and the real debatable ones like Crowley with Brayshaw.

Interesting fan exercise for sure, but it does suggest that at the very least the line-ups from each generation are at least comparable which means comparisons between coaches and results is somewhat fair

I would start with not having Neale as the Sub.

Look at his form leading into the finals then the Geelong final where he had 21 touches and top 5 ball winners

We bench him to the Sub for the Prelim and GF.

One decision i hated that Ross did in that finals series. It may cost us a flag.

 

[mattis117]

I don't see this list as good as 2012-15 or even the one Connelly had with:

F - Farmer, Pav Medhurst
HF - Headland JL Crowley
C - Heath Black, Haselby, M Carr
HB - Hayden, McPharlin, Duff
B - Parker Haddrill Grover

Ruck - Sandy, J Carr, Bell
Int - Ibbo, MJ, Polak, Mundy, Thornton

Plus Cook, Schammer, Warnock, Murphy, Peake, McManus, Walker, Dodd.

That side would spank what we've got now. We're currently putting our first gamers, a skinny 19yo full forward, Makeshift wings and journeymen like Ethan Hughes & Banners. There is practically no one in our current team that would get a game in that 2006 list.

What a crock. You're comparing all of these players at their peak to a this team in a single moment of time. Revisionist bullshit.
Absolutely laughable to suggest no one from this team would make that team.
Sounds like you're living in a past that never existed in the way you remember it. If that list was as good as you're suggesting it would have won multiple premierships regardless of the coach.

 

[freo1997]

I don't see this list as good as 2012-15 or even the one Connelly had with:

F - Farmer, Pav Medhurst
HF - Headland JL Crowley
C - Heath Black, Haselby, M Carr
HB - Hayden, McPharlin, Duff
B - Parker Haddrill Grover

Ruck - Sandy, J Carr, Bell
Int - Ibbo, MJ, Polak, Mundy, Thornton

Plus Cook, Schammer, Warnock, Murphy, Peake, McManus, Walker, Dodd.

That side would spank what we've got now. We're currently putting our first gamers, a skinny 19yo full forward, Makeshift wings and journeymen like Ethan Hughes & Banners. There is practically no one in our current team that would get a game in that 2006 list.

Problem with that team was the midfield.

Best Fwd line and Backline for mine but that midfield was average.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

Problem with that team was the midfield.

Best Fwd line and Backline for mine but that midfield was average.

midfield was tiny and slow in the cuddles era.

Do feel he massively underperformed. Also recruiting didnt address that, they were a of big bodied mid or 2 away from a flag.

 

[Bender571]

I always have a bit of a chuckle at the team sheet. Danny Peace literally never played as a forward, And, what on earth is Mundy doing on a wing?

Was Jack Hannath really that close to playing in a GF? Boy. Our depth must have been fingernail deep.

It was common for us to name a ruck as an emergency just in case. Unfortunately that year Griffin and Kepler both did their ACL. Hannath wasn't too bad for a 5th choice ruck.

 

[E Shed]

What a crock. You're comparing all of these players at their peak to a this team in a single moment of time. Revisionist bullshit.
Absolutely laughable to suggest no one from this team would make that team.
Sounds like you're living in a past that never existed in the way you remember it. If that list was as good as you're suggesting it would have won multiple premierships regardless of the coach.

Sigh . . . I guess you missed the follow up discussion where I admitted I’d made my post deliberately to create some discussion & agreed with posters who suggested who would come in from our current team.

It’s a discussion board. Lively discussion is good. I enjoyed the conversation with people who engaged in a constructive way.

I’ve been here since 2006, I am capable of nuanced discussion without being told I’m some kind of one eyed idiot. Why the aggressive edge in your comment?

 

[BStaff17]

I always have a bit of a chuckle at the team sheet. Danny Peace literally never played as a forward, And, what on earth is Mundy doing on a wing?

Was Jack Hannath really that close to playing in a GF? Boy. Our depth must have been fingernail deep.

Out of the 165 Fremantle that have played 20 games or more.

Jack Hannath has the 2nd best win% of those 165. 67.50% winning record

NOD currently is the only one that has him covered currently by 0.68% as he has played 22 games and reached the 20 game threshold.

 

[freo1997]

Sigh . . . I guess you missed the follow up discussion where I admitted I’d made my post deliberately to create some discussion & agreed with posters who suggested who would come in from our current team.

It’s a discussion board. Lively discussion is good. I enjoyed the conversation with people who engaged in a constructive way.

I’ve been here since 2006, I am capable of nuanced discussion without being told I’m some kind of one eyed idiot. Why the aggressive edge in your comment?

That poster is constantly angry or triggered. While I don’t agree with your assessment, yourself and everyone else are entitled to an opinion..don’t understand why there’s a few who blow a gasket over opinions on a game.

 

[mattis117]

Sigh . . . I guess you missed the follow up discussion where I admitted I’d made my post deliberately to create some discussion & agreed with posters who suggested who would come in from our current team.

It’s a discussion board. Lively discussion is good. I enjoyed the conversation with people who engaged in a constructive way.

I’ve been here since 2006, I am capable of nuanced discussion without being told I’m some kind of one eyed idiot. Why the aggressive edge in your comment?

Unfortunately we have to read these posts in the order they are presented - I did see it, but after I'd already responded.