2013 Fixture Discussion

[Loyal Lion]

Perhaps the best thing that can happen is the merger agreement be officially thrown out, and a new one done up. Of course, this raises all kinds of issues, in that who knows who the hell would draw it up, and god knows what they would or more likely wouldn't put in it this time around. An agreement like this should be the thing that bonds everything together, not be the thing that everyone is always fighting about.

Good luck in getting the Fitzroy Football Club to be a party to this. Why would they want to enter into a new merger agreement, when the existing one is in breach!

Maybe a new merger between the Brisbane Lions & Broadbeach may make more sense...

Let Fitzroy FC have their own identity back then.

 

[Dicky Fitzwell]

P*ss Poor Brisbane Lions. I'll be voting with my $.

 

[alscotoz]

Opening 2 games in Melbourne will struggle to pull a crowd !!

As per this year the last game time & date unknown

Easter Saturday, March 30 - Western Bulldogs (Etihad Stadium 1.40pm) - most folk go away for Easter

Sunday, April 21 - North Melbourne (Etihad Stadium) 4.40pm Sunday twilight game
Big ask to get familys & country folk along to this one- 3 hrs each way from the home town of our captain.

Saturday, May 18 - Essendon (Etihad Stadium 1.45pm)

Saturday, August 10 - Richmond (MCG 1.45pm)

Round 23 TBC - Geelong Cats Simonds Stadium (Venue TBC)

looks like only 3 games for me and my sons next year...sunday twilight and geelong are out. i'm not that bothered because i'm not wasting energy on something i can't control ( I have become accustomed to Vic supporters getting the shitty end of the stick) but my young sons are not impressed and i can't really explain to them why we could get 6 melbourne games last year but couldn't in 2013.

 

[chopperduck]

chopperduck All good mate

I've really enjoyed this discussion today, has really given me some food for thought and i love hearing from other people, their wants, expectations and views. I know i ruffled a few feathers (mostly unintentionally though), but overall i'm happy with the views of all the posters on here. We gotta have you passionate Fitzroy boys around to keep things like this kicking along, because the fight is never going to come from the Brisbane crowd. I would love to see some figures on our members of how many know that we are a merged club, and who that club is (ie Fitzroy). I really have doubts as to whether some people would even know of it's existence or significance, or that they still are a part of the club (arguable, but you catch my drift).

It's all happening as baby steps, but i'm hoping progress can be made each year with the Fitzroy faithful, even if we have to force a few of those steps.

 

[chopperduck]

looks like only 3 games for me and my sons next year...sunday twilight and geelong are out. i'm not that bothered but my young sons are not impressed and i can't really explain to them why we could get 6 melbourne games last year but couldn't in 2013.

I'm split on the twilight games. I don't mind them, yet i hate them at the same time. We have a lot more day games next year, hopefully the day games means more people coming to watch us.

Of our 4 Melb games, i'm disappointed that only 1 of them is at the MCG.

 

[chopperduck]

Good luck in getting the Fitzroy Football Club to be a party to this. Why would they want to enter into a new merger agreement, when the existing one is in breach!

Maybe a new merger between the Brisbane Lions & Broadbeach may make more sense...

Let Fitzroy FC have their own identity back then.

Well that's up to the AFL and if they want to have them back. As i said, it's a fairly major thought, but if the merger agreement doesn't mean bugger all now, what difference does it make ?

They argue that the agreement makes references to grounds that aren't even used anymore, so get the thing updated and make it more official, get it signed off on that it has to be followed, especially for things like fixtures. It's something that is never going to happen, but surely there is some merit in updating something like this.

 

[Football Pope]

looks like only 3 games for me and my sons next year...sunday twilight and geelong are out. i'm not that bothered but my young sons are not impressed and i can't really explain to them why we could get 6 melbourne games last year but couldn't in 2013.

Banking the Bombers game will be a fully ticketed event...

 

[Bucking Beads]

Apart from the lack of games in Melbourne our draw is pretty good. One trip to WA is a bonus.

 

[alscotoz]

I'm split on the twilight games. I don't mind them, yet i hate them at the same time. We have a lot more day games next year, hopefully the day games means more people coming to watch us.

Of our 4 Melb games, i'm disappointed that only 1 of them is at the MCG.

would have went to a saturday twilight and stayed the night in melbourne but coming from the country 2 hours each way, school and work next day makes it a non starter

 

[Monkey Daniel]

We'll switch our family membership to Lions cubs for my sons.
The twilight game is a no goer, especially with school the next day. ( have 90 mins travel time ) and even though I live in Geelong, the game at KP is also out of the equation ( not lining up for 2 hours just to get standing room in the GP area, not paying the extra costs for a seat either )
Boys play junior footy and if their game day is the same as a Lions game in Melbourne, then the earlier afternoon start makes it hard to get to.
So we'll still have some financial commitment to the club but will have to depend on Foxtel to see the games.

 

[Roylion]

Well that's up to the AFL and if they want to have them back.

Fitzroy won't be back in the AFL, even if the merger agreement is torn up tomorrow. Any termination of the Deed opens up a can of worms though for Brisbane. Who claims the history? All the Fitzroy memorabilia that was seized by Brisbane in 1996, under the terms of the agreement? Who would legally own that?

If that were to happen in terms of supporting the Brisbane Lions though, I'll be gone. I'll be solely supporting Fitzroy Football Club in the amateurs and maybe attending the occasional AFL match of a Melbourne based club.

They argue that the agreement makes references to grounds that aren't even used anymore, so get the thing updated and make it more official, get it signed off on that it has to be followed, especially for things like fixtures. It's something that is never going to happen, but surely there is some merit in updating something like this.

It won't be updated. Whatever Brisbane publicly say, they privately regard the terms of merger agreement as a millstone around their neck. The agreement is now expendable. It's served its purpose for the Lions and they don't really need it anymore. Sure they want to retain some sort of Melbourne support base and will make the occasional effort to cater for that supporter base by holding events such as the Hall of Fame and establishing a Museum, but I doubt it will go much beyond that.

 

[alscotoz]

When people ask me who I barrack for, (as is usually Question No.3 when meeting someone for the first time for a chat here in Victoria), I respond as follows;

"I barracked for Fitzroy all my life so now I'm a Brisbane supporter" - I have said it so many times that it's an automatic response.

I have three kids, my first was born in 2001 a few weeks after that glorious day. When looking for a name "Michael Jonathon" was considered strongly (by me) but ultimately passed. He is now 11 but as I have written in other posts he converted to the Cats when he commenced school despite being showered in maroon and blue jumpers and the like.

My two youngest are Lions and I'm proud of that fact, but I am starting to wonder if it's right to brainwash them to support a club that they realistically will hardly ever get to watch play live - because in essence that's what its all about. I can vividly recall Fitzroy v South Melbourne at the Junction Oval in 1979 - my first game live.

As the father of a Cats supporter and an MCC member, my eldest lad has seen more games live of his side in one year than No.2 has of the Lions in his life, it's a trend that is set to continue.

I will always be a Lion, but if you burn the younger Vic Lions supporters then there is no future and it will be just as many had predicted way back in 1996.

The club needs to show it has a spine and not a lap dog - regardless of what assistance the AFL is providing us.

I'm in a similar position. I half hoped my 2 sons would have done what your Geelong lad did but they didn't. One of them would rather play real football than attend an AFL game. my automatic response when asked who i barrack for is " I follow the Lions because i used to follow Fitzroy".

 

[doddgey]

Fitzroy won't be back in the AFL, even if the merger agreement is torn up tomorrow. Any termination of the Deed opens up a can of worms though for Brisbane. Who claims the history? All the Fitzroy memorabilia that was seized by Brisbane in 1996, under the terms of the agreement? Who would legally own that?

Roylion, I do not have any knowledge of 1996 and the so called merger, apart from what I have read. At that stage I had been a Rugby boy for 25 odd year's.
The way the above reads is almost like it was stolen, or appropriated at the very least. Is that how you see it ?

 

[Skoob]

Self fulfilling prophecy right there chopper. If the club does not get more pro-active with respect to the AFL stepping on a clear clause in one of the club's foundation documents, then yep, soon enough it won't be a problem anymore.

For those getting antsy about those complaining - does the lack of games in Melbourne impact on you? You might make the effort to travel to games from Mars once a year. Great, good for you and even better for the club. But are there too many other Martians the club has a written commitment to or a merged history with? Does your commitment and practical capacity to travel from Mars mean those complaining are out of line? Not in my view.

It also makes no sense to me to say "look at the bigger picture" and "the club needs to focus on SEQ" and in the next breath say "but it's all the AFL's fault". Is this a club matter or an AFL matter?

Also, for those getting antsy - at what point is it ok by you for Vic fans to be outraged - bearing in mind 4 games is the least ever, post merger. 3 games? 2 games? No games?

I appreciate the ultimate decision is out of the clubs hands, but am disappointed by the club's response. Sympathy is fine - but going in to bat is where my expectation was. Not legal action, but something a little firmer than "we're disappointed, we'll organise a NAB cup game". Do you believe for a second that Eddie McGuire, for all his faults, would adopt the same attitude? Or would he rabbit on about it like a 2 bob watch to at least make his point?

It's more disturbing to me to have that statement released 2 weeks ago as to club concessions out of the blue, when that issue was flavour of the month - why go in hard on that (and out of nowhere), but then limp on another issue likely to cost the club members.

100%
I think it fair that folk are disapointed in their club. Maybe the club can't do anything about it, but when their limp response follows the disapointment of the recent rehash of the jumper issue, one could be forgiven for thinking the club is blind to what matters to its supporters. They can quote commercial interests and on field success blahblah all they like but they soon need to realise the "bigger picture" of fighting for the members and fans. Show us they ****ing care about us. That is the bigger picture. Make your fans feel like they are being listened to and getting the best deal.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I'm in a similar position. I half hoped my 2 sons would have done what your Geelong lad did but they didn't. One of them would rather play real football than attend an AFL game. my automatic response when asked who i barrack for is " I follow the Lions because i used to follow Fitzroy".

"I follow the Lions because I used to follow Fitzroy"

Looking back on it as a kid it would have been just as easy to say "I follow Essendon but I used to follow Fitzroy".

I didn't have a choice since we decided as a family to follow the Brisbane Lions and whilst I would never support another club now - If I was older back then I can say that the decision would be really difficult since I live 5 minutes from Essendon and would be able to watch them train and go to all the games in Melbourne.

Though foxtel has certainly helped, watched every single game this year and went to all the Melbourne games.

 

[Ceebee]

"I follow the Lions because I used to follow Fitzroy"

Looking back on it as a kid it would have been just as easy to say "I follow Essendon but I used to follow Fitzroy".

I didn't have a choice since we decided as a family to follow the Brisbane Lions and whilst I would never support another club now - If I was older back then I can say that the decision would be really difficult since I live 5 minutes from Essendon and would be able to watch them train and go to all the games in Melbourne.

Though foxtel has certainly helped, watched every single game this year and went to all the Melbourne games.

You have grown to love them now I hope.

You have seen some amazing highs and think we are building up for more.

Hang in there,some people never get to any live games.

Cheers.

 

[Roylion]

Roylion, I do not have any knowledge of 1996 and the so called merger, apart from what I have read. At that stage I had been a Rugby boy for 25 odd year's.
The way the above reads is almost like it was stolen, or appropriated at the very least. Is that how you see it ?

Fitzroy were forced by the AFL and the other clubs to 'merge' with the Bears against their will.

Clause 7.1 b of the 'merger agreement', that Fitzroy were forced to sign (a merger agreement incidentally written solely by the Bears, now called the Lions, and with NO input from the Fitzroy Football Club) read:

"on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia)"

Much of that said memorabilia disappeared around that time, appropriated by Fitzroy supporters, determined not to let it fall into Brisbane's possession. Some still regard the memorabilia that Brisbane now own (and display at Etihad Stadium) as essentially stolen goods.

However I leave it to you to decide.

 

[Toffee Lion]

You have grown to love them now I hope.

You have seen some amazing highs and think we are building up for more.

Hang in there,some people never get to any live games.

Cheers.

Oh by all means I love my Lions and wouldn't even think about changing clubs.

I was more talking about during the 'decision' period.

 

[alscotoz]

"I follow the Lions because I used to follow Fitzroy"

Looking back on it as a kid it would have been just as easy to say "I follow Essendon but I used to follow Fitzroy".

I didn't have a choice since we decided as a family to follow the Brisbane Lions and whilst I would never support another club now - If I was older back then I can say that the decision would be really difficult since I live 5 minutes from Essendon and would be able to watch them train and go to all the games in Melbourne.

Though foxtel has certainly helped, watched every single game this year and went to all the Melbourne games.

althought p'd off at the time i thought the brisbane people did enough to retain some of the Fitzroy heritage and the agreement wasn't bad...hence my support. having realised over the years. and it's been reinforced by the 2013 fixture, it appears the 'agreement' is little more than a sham...which is saddening but hey, ho, AFL has never meant the same to me since Fitzroy got screwed.

 

[Loyal Lion]

Fitzroy were forced by the AFL and the other clubs to 'merge' with the Bears against their will.

Clause 7.1 b of the 'merger agreement', that Fitzroy were forced to sign (a merger agreement incidentally written solely by the Bears, now called the Lions, and with NO input from the Fitzroy Football Club) read:

"on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia)"

I leave it to you to decide.

As I understand Roy, a lot of the FFC's more valuable items eg 1916 Premiership medals & a player's cap & other items from that era, "disappeared" for want of a better word. The FFC apparently knew who had some of this stuff & tried unsuccessfully to get it back. The person in possession of the items, kept saying that he "found" the items at Fitzroy's former ground, the Junction Oval. That was a few years back. Have you heard anything about that Roy ? Apologies for taking the thread on a different tangent!

 

[Football Pope]

As I understand Roy, a lot of the FFC's more valuable items eg 1916 Premiership medals & a player's cap & other items from that era, "disappeared" for want of a better word. The FFC apparently knew who had some of this stuff & tried unsuccessfully to get it back. The person in possession of the items, kept saying that he "found" the items at Fitzroy's former ground, the Junction Oval. That was a few years back. Have you heard anything about that Roy ? Apologies for taking the thread on a different tangent!

Yep.. surprised the constabulary haven't since been called in on that.... or they that borrowed them haven't given them to the Fitzroy museum for a lot of folk to enjoy....Instead of sitting in garages as so called private collections....giving silverfish a food source.... Shocking how some folk view things.

 

[Loyal Lion]

Yep.. surprised the constabulary haven't since been called in on that.... or they that borrowed them haven't given them to the Fitzroy museum for a lot of folk to enjoy....Instead of sitting in garages as so called private collections....giving silverfish a food source.... Shocking how some folk view things.

That's the issue though FP. Don't think it is a police matter. The person apparently claims that the items were "left" like rubbish in the surrounds of the oval, maybe even the car park. So he has claimed them now as his belongings. It is a ridiculous situation how the club's heirlooms can be lost like that. Possession is 9/10ths of the law they say! Look they may have been returned in the meantime, but I doubt it. Roylion may know about this, seeing that he is close to the club.

 

[royboy2]

Ok. Let's talk a compensation package to the Fitzroy Football Club. The whole point of the merger agreement was to keep some vestige of Fitzroy in the competition it helped found.

So bearing in mind the above aims a compensation package for Fitzroy might consist of the following:

• Lions Family Day at the Brunswick Street Oval after Round 1 on Sunday morning.
• A FFC jumper (an actual FFC jumper) to be worn by the Lions for at least one game in Melbourne.
• Fitzroy Football Club senior team to play the curtain raiser before the North Melbourne game and/or the Richmond game, in their red 1975-1996 Fitzroy jumpers (Not impossible...the Fitzroy Reds played a curtain raiser before a Brisbane - Collingwood game at the MCG in 2003). Perhaps Brisbane could wear the same 1975-1996 Fitzroy jumper on the same day to emphasise unity.
• For the other games in Melbourne, an FFC logo is to be worn on the breast of the regular Lions jumper.
• A cup between the various clubs to be struck, commemorating a Fitzroy player who also played for the opposing club. e.g Brisbane and the Bulldogs to play for say the Bernie Quinlan Cup (177 games for the Bulldogs / 189 games for Fitzroy.) North Melbourne and Brisbane could play for the John Blakey Cup (135 games for Fitzroy and 224 for North) and Brisbane and maybe Richmond could play for the Paul Broderick Cup (93 games for Fitzroy and 169 games for Richmond).
• sponsorship of an extra player at the Fitzroy Football Club.

That's just off the top of my head. There may be other ideas as well


Some of these could end up being part of the general initiative by the Lions to re-connect with their Melbourne supporter base.

From discussions with Jeremy Guard, I'm pretty sure the 1st idea will be done after the NAB cup game vs Collingwood.

I really like all of these ideas, the idea of "compensation" does not have to be financial, in a perfect world one or both of the TAS/NT games would be re-scheduled but thats not going to happen.

The above ideas are a perfect way to do this, as was done with the wearing of the Fitzroy jumper in the past.

 

[Football Pope]

That's the issue though FP. Don't think it is a police matter. The person apparently claims that the items were "left" like rubbish in the surrounds of the oval, maybe even the car park. So he has claimed them now as his belongings. It is a ridiculous situation how the club's heirlooms can be lost like that. Possession is 9/10ths of the law they say! Look they may have been returned in the meantime, but I doubt it. Roylion may know about this, seeing that he is close to the club.

My info is more than just one person....and some folk helped them get to the surrounds....Things just disappeared from the Club when the administrator was appointed.(prior to being able to audit them) disappointing..

 

[Loyal Lion]

My info is more than just one person....and some folk helped them get to the surrounds....Things just disappeared from the Club when the administrator was appointed.(prior to being able to audit them) disappointing..

Yep that sounds right, especially with the timing of the Administrator appointment. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the items turned up on auction sites. How much would a 1913 player's cap or 1916 premiership trophy be worth ???