List Mgmt. 2013 Trading & Free Agency

[Mattrox]

PS you are making up lies about the size of Smac's contract.

 

[Mattrox]

Oh, we have retained Danger, Sloane and Tex, got Crouch and Talia on a Contract extension this year. Your argument is circular because we lost Kurt. That's it in the last 2 years and with all the huffing and puffing about losing players we have retained our solid spine. 2014 will be about getting it working better that 2012.

You really need to check who we signed up in 2012 and then include them for your argument to hold water.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

I heard that Jesse O'Brien has been training with us

 

[Mattrox]

I heard that Jesse O'Brien has been training with us

Quite a few positive postings about him on the Bris board. Let's hope he stays injury free.

Rookie him is a major win over Edwards who would be on senior list, both playing few or no games this year. Unless O'Brien can bulk up a bit.

 

[Jack is Back]

Oh, we have retained Danger, Sloane and Tex, got Crouch and Talia on a Contract extension this year. Your argument is circular because we lost Kurt. That's it in the last 2 years and with all the huffing and puffing about losing players we have retained our solid spine. 2014 will be about getting it working better that 2012.

You really need to check who we signed up in 2012 and then include them for your argument to hold water.

$kirt wasn't part of our solid spine? Well why the hell were we paying him a fortune? Why was he by far our highest paid player?

So Collingwood is a rabble and have been lucky to retain 7 players who were All Australian in the last 5 years. One key difference, Mattrox, they have won a premiership in the last 5 years. Our incredibly good squad has made the finals once in the last 4 years.

So let's compare the top end (All Australians) of our squad to other more successful clubs.

Hawthorn - Hodge, Roughead, Mitchell, Gibson, Burgoyne, Birchall and Lake (and then there's Rioli....)

Geelong - Bartel, Mackie, Taylor, Kelly, Selwood, Stevie J, Hawkins and Enright

Sydney - Assuming that $kirt is being paid by their COLA they still have to fit the following All Australians into the salary cap - Hannebury, O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Richards, Goodes and Franklin.

Do you seriously believe our top end talent is better than these, Mattrox?

If everyone other than Sydney and GWS have the same amount of money to spend then some teams are getting Euros and we are getting Pesetas.

 

[cmndstab]

It's the height of arrogance to suggest that Adelaide held all the cards. Smith was our only card.

Money is a pretty dramatic card. It might not have been enough on its own, but it's pretty crazy to claim it was a non-factor.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

And Collingwood have has such great success since Mick left. How about we compare what we are doing to best practice and leave Collingwood to do what Collingwood does. The last 2 years have seen instability at Collingwood which is impacting their performances........ bad example.

How much do the Pies players get through endorsements.

Since Mick left, there has been an exodus, including Daisey seeking more $'s.

Our top end talent is the equal of the Pies IMO.

 

[Vader]

Money is a pretty dramatic card. It might not have been enough on its own, but it's pretty crazy to claim it was a non-factor.

Money comes into the equation when you're talking about a top end player and the ability of one club to out bid another.

I doubt Polec is on more than $150k - and if it's more than $200k then Port should be firing their list manager. At this end of the pay scale any club should be able to price match, thus its a non issues.

 

[Vader]

Money is a pretty dramatic card. It might not have been enough on its own, but it's pretty crazy to claim it was a non-factor.

Money comes into the equation when you're talking about a top end player and the ability of one club to out bid another.

I doubt Polec is on more than $150k - and if it's more than $200k then Port should be firing their list manager. At this end of the pay scale any club should be able to price match, thus its a non issues.

 

[Mattrox]

How much do the Pies players get through endorsements.

Since Mick left, there has been an exodus, including Daisey seeking more $'s.

Our top end talent is the equal of the Pies IMO.

Agreed.

I was being sarcastic in my 1st line.

 

[Sanders]

Hahahahaha Brisbane took draft picks in the 30s for other players, but Port gave them 14...... Don't tell us that they wouldn't be more than happy with 14.

I really hope you're not serious

 

[Sanders]

Money comes into the equation when you're talking about a top end player and the ability of one club to out bid another.

I doubt Polec is on more than $150k - and if it's more than $200k then Port should be firing their list manager. At this end of the pay scale any club should be able to price match, thus its a non issues.

Apparently offered 300k

 

[Mattrox]

$kirt wasn't part of our solid spine? Well why the hell were we paying him a fortune? Why was he by far our highest paid player?

So Collingwood is a rabble and have been lucky to retain 7 players who were All Australian in the last 5 years. One key difference, Mattrox, they have won a premiership in the last 5 years. Our incredibly good squad has made the finals once in the last 4 years.

So let's compare the top end (All Australians) of our squad to other more successful clubs.

Hawthorn - Hodge, Roughead, Mitchell, Gibson, Burgoyne, Birchall and Lake (and then there's Rioli....)

Geelong - Bartel, Mackie, Taylor, Kelly, Selwood, Stevie J, Hawkins and Enright

Sydney - Assuming that $kirt is being paid by their COLA they still have to fit the following All Australians into the salary cap - Hannebury, O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Richards, Goodes and Franklin.

Do you seriously believe our top end talent is better than these, Mattrox?

If everyone other than Sydney and GWS have the same amount of money to spend then some teams are getting Euros and we are getting Pesetas.

I didn't say Kurt wasn't part of our spine. I said we have retained a strong spine despite exaggerations otherwise.

I'd rate Danger, Sloane, Douglas (v2013), Thommo (uninjured), Crouch right up there. Grigg showing great promise. Laird showing he's well capable and Brown starting to add rebound. These factors alone should see a leap in progress as a team this year.

You point to one area of Collingwood's perceived strengths but miss out on all the team disharmony that occurred.

On top of that your goal posts keep shifting. 1st we are s**t bevause we didn't throw all our cap at "someone". Then we are s**t because we keep losing players to a mass exodus, then when this is pointed out to be a furfy we are s**t because we are not like Collingwood.

This is well worn territory. And no matter how much axe you grind it doesn't prove you right.


Let's see who we rookie. If rumours of O'Brien are true then we are on the right track. Way better than Edwards on the senior list.

The thing with you purveyor of gloom and doom act is that anything less than spectacular success and you can jump up with spin and say "told you so".

 

[Vader]

Apparently offered 300k

Yet another good reason for Adelaide to have bowed gracefully out of the race when they did. 300k is ridiculous for a player in Polec's position.

 

[crowsup]

Yet another good reason for Adelaide to have bowed gracefully out of the race when they did. 300k is ridiculous for a player in Polec's position.

But.. But.. We targeted him!!! We should have gone to $500k at the minimum. And another 500-600k for Edwards and Aylett.

Yea. OK. I am being a bit facetious .

 

[adelaidecrows]

But.. But.. We targeted him!!! We should have gone to $500k at the minimum. And another 500-600k for Edwards and Aylett.

Yea. OK. I am being a bit facetious .

I couldn't agree more. A target is a target and if we are serious we should have gone all out. Hell perhaps we should have traded pick 23 for Edwards and Aylett while we were at it.

bahahaha Are you David Noble?

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yet another good reason for Adelaide to have bowed gracefully out of the race when they did. 300k is ridiculous for a player in Polec's position.

Well according to David Noble we didn't bow out at all. We were frozen out. I have a feeling we matched the $300k. I don't have a problem with that figure. Its not overs IMO but it certainly is a punt he will earn that money. It is a blessing he isn't at Adelaide. Heaven help this page if he did sweet FA and was injured all the time. Im glad we have taken the pick in the end.

 

[dylan123]

Let's see who we rookie. If rumours of O'Brien are true then we are on the right track. Way better than Edwards on the senior list.

Not sure how you can say that, O'Brien was delisted from a club that was losing players left right and centre whereas Edwards was sort after by both Adelaide and Essendon with GWS even managing to offload a contract they didn't want and Essendon accepting it due to their interest in Edwards. Now I haven't seen either of them play so I can't make a judgement over their footballing abilities, but looking at the signs, I can't see how you can honestly say by getting O'Brien we're way better off then what we would have been had we actually got Edwards.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You're thinking too narrowly. Think of it like depreciation and how that can impact future decisions. It's not necessarily straight line. Our list might be better in 2014 if we turn those unspent dollars into a player, but the salary cap in 2014 is not independent of the one in 2015. Polec demands cap as long as he's on our list. It might be that the price to change his mind about preferred club negates our ability to improve our list later, at lesser risk, with net value over a longer period greater if we pass on him. It may be that 2014 is better for having secured Polec, but 2015 and 2016 we lose net ground on the competition because of this decision, and reduce our overall probability of a premiership between now and then.

Like, clearly Carl, you're thinking about this fine based on the information you have. All available info is telling you that we've made a bad decision. But we don't know how they model their decisions. We don't know who they're talking to, or how Polec's acquisition shapes our list, how our probabilities for a premiership over a period might be impacted by committing dollars to him, now. We don't look at our club like that. We're thinking about the 2013/14 pre season, and how Brad Crouch might look after a couple of years in the gym, but we're not managing the machinations of the list. We don't have that foresight, or at least, access to the information that could give us that.

You use upcoming FAs supporting other clubs as a reason to condemn what the club has done with Polec here, and that the presence of unspent money is a failure. Lose Polec, "get someone else". So you're using an uneducated guess, demand for a faceless player, and unused dollars to tell us we've cocked up. Without knowing any of the movement of our list (movement being an all-encompassing term - internal, external, probability, whatever model(s) we are using to shape our list over periods longer than a season). This is an incredibly rudimentary analysis of our situation. It's baseless, really.

So we're making all the right moves?

Great!

I've become enchanted and illusioned with the AFC.

 

[Mattrox]

Not sure how you can say that, O'Brien was delisted from a club that was losing players left right and centre whereas Edwards was sort after by both Adelaide and Essendon with GWS even managing to offload a contract they didn't want and Essendon accepting it due to their interest in Edwards. Now I haven't seen either of them play so I can't make a judgement over their footballing abilities, but looking at the signs, I can't see how you can honestly say by getting O'Brien we're way better off then what we would have been had we actually got Edwards.

Only that both are unproven players that can provide outside run. Edwards would have come with Aylett, both on the senior list. O'Brien would be on the rookie list. Neither Edwards nor O'Brien would be likely to get more than a handful of games at the most this year.

I am talking purely from a structural position. The rookie list is the ideal place to try out unproven talent. In the case of Edwards we woupd have to have 2 unproven players on the main list.

In terms of talent, the Brisbane board seem to think he deserved another chance as he has been hindered by injury. They see him as a casualty of having to use all the 1st and 2nd round picks.

 

[amer]

So we're making all the right moves?

Great!

I've become enchanted and illusioned with the AFC.

Because we're for sure not getting 100% of our decisions right, we have justification for saying the Polec decision or these unused dollars = self-evident mistake. Or that we have grounds for a definite rule.

You're a black and white thinker, and that you didn't engage the message - because it's me - is that insecurity coming out again.

Look, who cares about your reputation. You're popular on here and it won't matter if you don't do well with this. People will still blanket me as the idiot. That power-distance between us is not going anywhere. Have a go.

 

[Bacon8]

North Melbourne have committed to take Robin Nahas in the ND.

How upsetting for the "black cloud band" who thought we'd end up with him (despite us never officially showing any interest whatsoever)

 

[Niximus]

North Melbourne have committed to take Robin Nahas in the ND.

How upsetting for the "black cloud band" who thought we'd end up with him (despite us never officially showing any interest whatsoever)

Nah, clearly NM were more proactive and willing to take a risk and we just sat on our hands and let them do it. I bet we didn't even bother speaking with him, typical

/sarcasm

 

[adelaidecrows]

Nah, clearly NM were more proactive and willing to take a risk and we just sat on our hands and let them do it. I bet we didn't even bother speaking with him, typical

/sarcasm

What are you talking about man the club stuffed up again. Nahas was clearly the answer to all our problems. They wanted him so badly but thought minimum wage was too much. If the club really wants him we should have offered him 500k a season and pick 23 I would have thought was a given, probably pick 46 as well. For the record hasn't Nahas proved more at AFL level then a certain individual who hasn't done a thing and is living on potential alone, yet the club was supposed to throw the kitchen sink at him and anything less was a world ending failure.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Nah, clearly NM were more proactive and willing to take a risk and we just sat on our hands and let them do it. I bet we didn't even bother speaking with him, typical

/sarcasm

What are you talking about man the club stuffed up again. Nahas was clearly the answer to all our problems. They wanted him so badly but thought minimum wage was too much. If the club really wants him we should have offered him 500k a season and pick 23 I would have thought was a given, probably pick 46 as well. For the record hasn't Nahas proved more at AFL level then a certain individual who hasn't done a thing and is living on potential alone, yet the club was supposed to throw the kitchen sink at him and anything less was a world ending failure.