Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread

[Schulzycrow]

Will be nice to have a head coach who can put into practice what he has learnt over the past season. Don't judge Pyke to harshly yet, if halfway through the season Mackay and Thommo are still regular player in the side then a)We've had a horror run with injuries, b)Players who we have expected to take the next step haven't or c)It is how BF fears and it's gold passes and boys club as far as the eye can see.
Just can't see how Thommo can play HBF, Douglas maybe but small half forwards would run rings around Thommo. He's either in the guts or maybe resting in a pocket or on the bench.
Questions would need to be harshly asked if c was the case.
Hoping Thommo plays about 6-8 games and Mackay about 4 or less.
Hoping Menzel comes on and takes CC's spot in the forward line and CC moves to the wing. Hoping the Seed and Hampton can come on strong and finally allow Smithers free to play wing. Greenwood or CEY to take Lyon's spot in the middle. Think CEY will get first crack, but Greenwood will have his spot by the end of the season.

Merry Christmas to all you scallywags.

 

[skoobydoo]

Lol. Dont think I have heard as much talked about any one player than Mackay. Mackay was actually quite good in the early part of last season. The fact is that, as much as we do need a better player to come in and take his spot, nobody really stood up. Seeds came in with great expectations, but was he really much better than Mackay? I didnt think so. On his best day yes. But he had far more off days than Mackay did. Hampton didnt dominate the SANFL like those kids in my day that used to rock up with full beards and P-plates to play U/14s. I preferred Mackay over Hendo.

He is not worth $400k and I dont think we win a flag if he is best 22, but still somebody has to come in and take his spot. Same goes for Thommo.

Treading water and waiting for Godot.

 

[marty36]

Will be nice to have a head coach who can put into practice what he has learnt over the past season. Don't judge Pyke to harshly yet, if halfway through the season Mackay and Thommo are still regular player in the side then a)We've had a horror run with injuries, b)Players who we have expected to take the next step haven't or c)It is how BF fears and it's gold passes and boys club as far as the eye can see.
Just can't see how Thommo can play HBF, Douglas maybe but small half forwards would run rings around Thommo. He's either in the guts or maybe resting in a pocket or on the bench.
Questions would need to be harshly asked if c was the case.
Hoping Thommo plays about 6-8 games and Mackay about 4 or less.
Hoping Menzel comes on and takes CC's spot in the forward line and CC moves to the wing. Hoping the Seed and Hampton can come on strong and finally allow Smithers free to play wing. Greenwood or CEY to take Lyon's spot in the middle. Think CEY will get first crack, but Greenwood will have his spot by the end of the season.

Merry Christmas to all you scallywags.

What if the coach gets on his tablet, reads BF and follows the Posters thoughts and brings in Wigg, CEY, Galluci, Doedee, Milera and drops Thommo, Mackay, douglass, Cheney

What if the new lads fail miserably and can't cut it in the big time although they showed lots of potential when thrown into the real thing they might go missing

Our expectations were to finish top 4 and we finish 12th when he gets sacked he to could join us a BF poster

 

[crowsup]

I'd wager a guess that a few of our guys train better than they play

Why do we ignore AFL form then? Surely playing like shit at the top level tells you more than training form ever will.

Surely you see that SANFL form Is a better gauge of what players will do in the AFL than track work???

In every sport there are trainers and then there are players.

So you've never played with a training champ, can't find the ball in a game player?

Training form is important if there's a correlation between good training and good football or vice versa. But having a good week on the track shouldn't outweigh a run if shit games, especially when you're always great on the track.

Thanks for the lessons guys.
As I said, I'm no coach. It's funny though that so many coaches put so much trust in the training part.
I take it from most of your answers that training is only to keep up with the aerobic capacity but selection for the AFL should only be by the showing in the SANFL?
Does position one plays in have any weight in the decision. I.E. Did anyone in the SANFL playing DMack's position, show enough to dislodge Dmack?
Last season, for the first time in my life, I went and watched about 4 SANFL games the crows were involved in. To be honest, there was not one player that I thought would be able to play better than DMack except Henderson on one or two occasions.
Maybe I'm biased and, as I said, I know SFA about footy.

 

[1970crow]

There is no evidence of any kind to suggest the coaches get more right than us posters. There's also no evidence saying the posters get more right than coaches. Either of these opinions are based on absolutely nothing of any substance

It's odd that it's even brought up. "Oh, but I agree with the coaches, they're always right, so I must be right and you must be wrong. Yes, Wright is playing a non-statistical role and is marvellous at it, a vital cog in our perfect system, his spot is clearly safe unless you're an idiot who knows nothing about football."

 

[1970crow]

Great stuff from the boys. Hartigan is looking enormous.

 

[marty36]

It's odd that it's even brought up. "Oh, but I agree with the coaches, they're always right, so I must be right and you must be wrong. Yes, Wright is playing a non-statistical role and is marvellous at it, a vital cog in our perfect system, his spot is clearly safe unless you're an idiot who knows nothing about football."

I don't think anyone says the coaches are always right but they live by the sword die by the sword

Ask Sando

They will make the final decision and suffer the consequences if they are wrong we just make another comment

 

[marty36]

Thanks for the lessons guys.
As I said, I'm no coach. It's funny though that so many coaches put so much trust in the training part.
I take it from most of your answers that training is only to keep up with the aerobic capacity but selection for the AFL should only be by the showing in the SANFL?
Does position one plays in have any weight in the decision. I.E. Did anyone in the SANFL playing DMack's position, show enough to dislodge Dmack?
Last season, for the first time in my life, I went and watched about 4 SANFL games the crows were involved in. To be honest, there was not one player that I thought would be able to play better than DMack except Henderson on one or two occasions.
Maybe I'm biased and, as I said, I know SFA about footy.

I agree form is the best indicator

But it can't be discounted that if you are performing on the track the chances of that being converted to on the field are high. So it needs to be taken into consideration

There are exceptions as we here with players like Stevie J and the like but they are in the minority

 

[Vader]

Thanks for the lessons guys.
As I said, I'm no coach. It's funny though that so many coaches put so much trust in the training part.
I take it from most of your answers that training is only to keep up with the aerobic capacity but selection for the AFL should only be by the showing in the SANFL?
Does position one plays in have any weight in the decision. I.E. Did anyone in the SANFL playing DMack's position, show enough to dislodge Dmack?
Last season, for the first time in my life, I went and watched about 4 SANFL games the crows were involved in. To be honest, there was not one player that I thought would be able to play better than DMack except Henderson on one or two occasions.
Maybe I'm biased and, as I said, I know SFA about footy.

Training generally has a higher weighting than SANFL performances, because it's measured against AFL standard opponents. AFL games have the highest weighting.

 

[marty36]

Training generally has a higher weighing than SANFL performances, because it's measured against AFL standard opponents. AFL games have the highest weighting.

But as we see in a game when you have a competitor whether it be SANFL or not it's a lot harder when the pressure is on. we see it when goal kicking before a game they hardly ever miss but 20 out on from a mark or a free, pressure is on and it is sprayed.

Im not discounting training as generally speaking if you are training well chances are you will play well, but more should be taken out of when am opponent is deadset against you not a half baked effort from a training drill where no one wants to get hurt

 

[GreyCrow]

Training generally has a higher weighting than SANFL performances, because it's measured against AFL standard opponents. AFL games have the highest weighting.

Training always has some weighting but not to the extent you think. Match day performance balanced by need and training form will all be used to determine readiness.

You can train the house down every day for 3 months, but if someone is in your position and they are performing in the higher league then don't expect a call up

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

There's rarely competitive stuff at training once the preseason games have started. Becomes as much about recovery and maintenance than anything else.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I don't think anyone says the coaches are always right but they live by the sword die by the sword

Ask Sando

They will make the final decision and suffer the consequences if they are wrong we just make another comment

AFL Coach gets $400K - $800k per year to get success ......of course it's natural to select players that you're close too, or train well, but play poorly in matches ......just goes to reason that the coach is aiming to be sacked

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Training always has some weighting but not to the extent you think. Match day performance balanced by need and training form will all be used to determine readiness.

You can train the house down every day for 3 months, but if someone is in your position and they are performing in the higher league then don't expect a call up

IMO he it has a high rating, but not because of skills, or execution alone ......IMO the coach is also accessing the players motivation / external situations / maturity / ability to implement the gameplan for a potential role ....i think these aspects are undervalued, when we look at a player in the SANFL and we see the great goal, great pass, and soaring mark ? .....what is that really telling us ?

 

[Scorpus]

when we look at a player in the SANFL and we see the great goal, great pass, and soaring mark ? .....what is that really telling us ?

It's telling us these players have the skills and ability that will translate well to AFL.

And that's what really matters

 

[BRL121]

Treading water and waiting for Godot.

Gary Ablett retired some years ago.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It's telling us these players have the skills and ability that will translate well to AFL.

And that's what really matters

Not really .....it can, but often the step up in pace catches players out, for speed of thought, speed of getting to the right spots, speed of decision making

I guess the most famous player that couldn't step up was Sturts Brodie Atkinson ......winner Reserves Magarey Medal, winner League Magarey Medal, winner AFL Rising Star .....total AFL games (7) across 2 clubs

Other notable SANFL stars that could not make the transition, despite doing everything you highlighted as a good player:
Fergus Watts (5 games)
Justin Cicolella (5 games)
Tim Cook (8 games)
Mathew Shir (11 games)
Luke Thompson 20 games) .....and this boards favorite bump up player

 

[Scorpus]

I honestly believe that training should only be used for reinforcing skills, learning game plans, fitness and recovery.

If you can't even manage these things to a good standard at training you should be delisted. Simple as that.

Player quality should be judged on game day performances alone. Because at the end of the day, you can train as hard as you like, but if you suck on game day you're no hope.

 

[Scorpus]

Not really .....it can, but often the step up in pace catches players out, for speed of thought, speed of getting to the right spots, speed of decision making

I guess the most famous player that couldn't step up was Sturts Brodie Atkinson ......winner Reserves Magarey Medal, winner League Magarey Medal, winner AFL Rising Star .....total AFL games (7) across 2 clubs

Other notable SANFL stars that could not make the transition, despite doing everything you highlighted as a good player:
Fergus Watts (5 games)
Justin Cicolella (5 games)
Tim Cook (8 games)
Mathew Shir (11 games)
Luke Thompson 20 games) .....and this boards favorite bump up player

Being a solid SANFL player doesn't mean you have AFL qualities. You need to show specific things at SANFL level to show you have what it takes in the AFL

 

[Bicks]

Not really .....it can, but often the step up in pace catches players out, for speed of thought, speed of getting to the right spots, speed of decision making

I guess the most famous player that couldn't step up was North Adelaide Roosters & Sturt's Brodie Atkinson ......winner Reserves Magarey Medal, winner League Magarey Medal, winner AFL Rising Star .....total AFL games (7) across 2 clubs

Other notable SANFL stars that could not make the transition, despite doing everything you highlighted as a good player:
Fergus Watts (5 games)
Justin Cicolella (5 games)
Tim Cook (8 games)
Mathew Shir (11 games)
Luke Thompson 20 games) .....and this boards favorite bump up player

EFA

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Being a solid SANFL player doesn't mean you have AFL qualities. You need to show specific things at SANFL level to show you have what it takes in the AFL

And all the above did ! .....so why didn't they make it? ......mostly because at the next level they were too slow of thought and movement

 

[Scorpus]

And all the above did ! .....so why didn't they make it? ......mostly because at the next level they were too slow of thought and movement

Did they though?

A guy like Brodie Martin is a great case study. Did really well at SANFL level but didn't show anything particularly spectacular. Stepped up to AFL and was repeatedly found out.

You need guys not just to do really well at league level. You need to have standout elite traits, which is why a guy like Grigg never made it. Great kick but was too slow to defend at AFL level, something that is less obvious at SANFL level.

On the other hand, a player like Milera looks amazing at state level and comfortably pushes up to AFL. It's these players you look for, not the Martins and Luke Thompsons.

And in any case, you can't tell if a player is AFL or SANFL level from their training. Everyone trains well. They're on an AFL list, it's the bare minimum

 

[Crowstar]

Did they though?

A guy like Brodie Martin is a great case study. Did really well at SANFL level but didn't show anything particularly spectacular. Stepped up to AFL and was repeatedly found out.

You need guys not just to do really well at league level. You need to have standout elite traits, which is why a guy like Grigg never made it. Great kick but was too slow to defend at AFL level, something that is less obvious at SANFL level.

On the other hand, a player like Milera looks amazing at state level and comfortably pushes up to AFL. It's these players you look for, not the Martins and Luke Thompsons.

And in any case, you can't tell if a player is AFL or SANFL level from their training. Everyone trains well. They're on an AFL list, it's the bare minimum

Stephen Schwerdt. Too good for SANFL, horrible at AFL

 

[crowsup]

Training generally has a higher weighting than SANFL performances, because it's measured against AFL standard opponents. AFL games have the highest weighting.

That was exactly what I was trying to highlight in my original post. But, as you could see by the answers I got, it appears I didn't know what I was talking about.
To me, even if it is in interclub competition, a player is tried against another AFL player. Even if they do not go at it full bore, it should still be evident enough which player is better suited.
I do understand that sometimes things can be miss judged. But it would be only occasionally. Surely it cannot be as often as some of the posters here imply.
As an example, when Beech played a couple of good games and Tex was not at his best, if the selectors had moved Beech in to replace Tex, I'm sure the same people here that believe form in the SANFL should be judged equal to the AFL, would have gone out of their mind. And rightly so. But, because it was DMack, they feel justified in their view, even when it is shown that, if played in the SANFL, Dmack would have outperformed their "Anyone but DMack".

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That was exactly what I was trying to highlight in my original post. But, as you could see by the answers I got, it appears I didn't know what I was talking about.
To me, even if it is in interclub competition, a player is tried against another AFL player. Even if they do not go at it full bore, it should still be evident enough which player is better suited.
I do understand that sometimes things can be miss judged. But it would be only occasionally. Surely it cannot be as often as some of the posters here imply.
As an example, when Beech played a couple of good games and Tex was not at his best, if the selectors had moved Beech in to replace Tex, I'm sure the same people here that believe form in the SANFL should be judged equal to the AFL, would have gone out of their mind. And rightly so. But, because it was DMack, they feel justified in their view, even when it is shown that, if played in the SANFL, Dmack would have outperformed their "Anyone but DMack".

It's the coaches and selectors who rate Mackay's AFL performances extremely lowly - it's not just a few posters on here.

What baffles most of us is that Mackay's B&F results are those of a fringe player who gets dropped repeatedly whereas the attitude towards him regarding selection is as though he's a multiple Brownlow medal winning champion.

There is something askew at the club regarding our senior players.