Autopsy 2016 AFL Grand Final - Western Bulldogs 13.11.89 d Sydney Swans 10.7.67

[NathanMX]

It's not about Franklin and Tippet, but the guys on rookie salary.
https://cityfutures.be.unsw.edu.au/cityviz/affordability-index/

And Perth is even more expensive. Yet they get nothing.

Tell me how do minimum wage workers survive in Sydney but footballers cannot?

A rookie gets around 50k a year, not exactly in the poor house. And even if they were how would an extra 9.8% or roughly $5,000 get them out of it? Makes zero sense.

 

[mikey_san]

The woefully inadewuate concessions we were given...

Oh no, he didn't!?? Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

It's an argument for another day. But.....
The GWS NEAFL team prob would have been close to the 8 this year, all thanks to the absolutely crazy draft picks they were gifted over years.
In the US as a comparison expansion teams get no draft concessions other than one pick the year they start. They have a veteran draft in the NFL for example where all other teams have to leave 4 or 8 players unprotected and available to be selected by the expansion team. Invariable that is the bottom/oldest ones, or the ones with "issues".
In any case I understand the AFL needed a successful team, as the actual demand for an AFL team in western Sydney is close to zero. But they went overboard with the picks. They are getting rid of Steele for gawds sake! ANY other team and he is their biggest star. A Bont. I'd pretty much give anyone on our list bar Kennedy, Hanners, Rampe to have that guy.

 

[mikey_san]

And Perth is even more expensive. Yet they get nothing.

Tell me how do minimum wage workers survive in Sydney but footballers cannot?

A rookie gets around 50k a year, not exactly in the poor house. And even if they were how would an extra 9.8% or roughly $5,000 get them out of it? Makes zero sense.

Like I said. I agree it was a way for the AFL to manipulate the ladder. I'm not sure we disagree. But I don't think its made a big difference. You think Tippet stays in Adelaide if we offered him 9.8% less than we did? The guy's a surfer from the Goldy. Born to live in Sydney.
For the rookies the difference absolutely put them in the share house market in a place they'd actually want to stay.
Anyway weren't you calling me crazy for saying the AFL interfered in outcomes? Now you are arguing they do.

 

[Bokonon]

Oh no, he didn't!?? Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

It's an argument for another day. But.....
The GWS NEAFL team prob would have been close to the 8 this year, all thanks to the absolutely crazy draft picks they were gifted over years.
In the US as a comparison expansion teams get no draft concessions other than one pick the year they start. They have a veteran draft in the NFL for example where all other teams have to leave 4 or 8 players unprotected and available to be selected by the expansion team. Invariable that is the bottom/oldest ones, or the ones with "issues".
In any case I understand the AFL needed a successful team, as the actual demand for an AFL team in western Sydney is close to zero. But they went overboard with the picks. They are getting rid of Steele for gawds sake! ANY other team and he is their biggest star. A Bont. I'd pretty much give anyone on our list bar Kennedy, Hanners, Rampe to have that guy.

We traded well. You have a point though, Steele is from our academy and a local junior from our Canberra zone. Sad in that respect.
It's a cruel business, and Hopper and Kennedy were oreferred this year. Think comparisons with Bontempelli a bit over the top, but I hope he can cement a spot in the Saints best 22. Without the pressure of knowing a slip puts him back in the reserves I do think, and hope, he'll be a really good player for a long time.

 

[Werewolf]

A penalty count of 2:1 is what you might expect when one team is badly beaten as we were in 2014. Which was not the case last week.
Anyway it's done now. We have a corrupt game, like Rugby league - gamblers, like Soccer - administrators, like boxing - everything.
It's sad to behold.

FWIW free kicks were even in the 2014 GF, but the timing and location of free kicks is more important. The 20-8 count last week included 5-1 advantage calls which had no effect on the game, so the actual figure was 15-7. Which helped the Bulldogs, but not enough to guarantee a win.

Sydney got two goals directly from frees/50's and another from a missed free against Parker, while a possible goal from Johannisen was overturned. All while the game was on the line. I wasn't too upset by those calls (only noticed Parker's infringement on the replay) since the Bulldogs got lucky a few times too, but the disparity wasn't enough to suggest corruption to me. The Bulldogs then got their last 2 free kicks when the game was over.

Considering Sydney averaged 35 possessions per goal, how much extra possession do they need to make up 3-4 goals? At 70% efficiency, each free kick produces an average of 3-4 more disposals, so 10 more frees might be worth 1-2 goals. Not enough to change the result

 

[NathanMX]

Like I said. I agree it was a way for the AFL to manipulate the ladder. I'm not sure we disagree. But I don't think its made a big difference. You think Tippet stays in Adelaide if we offered him 9.8% less than we did? The guy's a surfer from the Goldy. Born to live in Sydney.
For the rookies the difference absolutely put them in the share house market in a place they'd actually want to stay.
Anyway weren't you calling me crazy for saying the AFL interfered in outcomes? Now you are arguing they do.

At the end though you have to still win the grand final, it is not gifted to any team. If you were still in South Melbourne you would have gotten nothing, but it is common knowledge how COLA can be manipulated.

 

[mikey_san]

I wasn't too upset by those calls

Crikey you'd be a hard man to please if you were upset by the umpires in that game.

We could go back and forth all day on missed frees and those given in error. The stats don't lie imho.

 

[SCRAY72]

Right. But the point is the game wasnt won or lost on the lopsided free kick count.

Fair enough then.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A minor way? Seriously?

Tell me again why Franklin and Tippett need an extra 9.8% income when minimum wage workers can afford to live in Sydney.

You might care to read the MB posting rules before you go much further.

 

[NathanMX]

You might care to read the MB posting rules before you go much further.

Hard to argue with a conspiracy theorist logically

 

[Werewolf]

Crikey you'd be a hard man to please if you were upset by the umpires in that game.

We could go back and forth all day on missed frees and those given in error. The stats don't lie imho.

Umpires were definitely nice to us overall - 100action was joking before if anyone hasn't realised

I went to Port-Bulldogs in r12, we lost the free kick count 23-10 and I only recall one awful decision that went against us. s**t happens. I think generally the Bulldogs play to not concede free kicks and a couple of guys duck (McLean), but if you can't rely on free kicks to win at footy

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Hard to argue with a conspiracy theorist logically

I think too misrepresent me. I have not advanced any conspiracy theories. I have not made any comment about the umpiring in the GF. I was simply attempting a more nuanced perspective of your conspiracy theory that the AFL gifts advantage to the Swans.

 

[NathanMX]

I think too misrepresent me. I have not advanced any conspiracy theories. I have not made any comment about the umpiring in the GF. I was simply attempting a more nuanced perspective of your conspiracy theory that the AFL gifts advantage to the Swans.

Haha was not referencing you, moreso a fellow Swans fan

Do you think the competition is rigged?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Haha was not referencing you, moreso a fellow Swans fan

Do you think the competition is rigged?

Cheers, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I don't think it's rigged, no.

Certainly think there are any number of inequities within the comp as it currently stands.

 

[HairyO]

Such a Sting

If we keep this up, people will get Angry.

 

[Shane Hird]

Sad; to be reduced to sniping from the sidelines on other team's games as your own team finishes near bottom; which is were they are ethically.

Yeah well that's how I roll my little sensitive buttercup.

You'll just have to deal with it won't cha.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Being at the game, I can tell you most Dogs supporters near me knew full well they were getting a golden ride from the umps. The Swans got 1 FREE KICK IN AN ENTIRE HALF OF FOOTBALL (Q2 and 3). That is simply unprecedented in football. This game was rigged pure and simple. There is NO other explanation. Sure enjoy the premiership, but the reality is it was gifted. The players know it.

LOL, I watched the game again on the weekend and there was no gifting, just admit we were the better team. Or attentively have a look at the replay and tell me where they were wrong other than a handful of bad decisions for both sides as is normal.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Didn't get many frees!!? They got one in an entire half of football? Can you ever remember a game in which that has happened?
And this was a game which was VERY even (in all respects except the umpiring), so it's plain wrong to argue the Dogs just got to the ball first.

This game was very clearly rigged to come out one way. While it's not impossible the umps were paid by gamblers; I think it very likely the AFL wanted a Victorian premiership and great story. They are now an "entertainment" company more than a sporting body.

LOL and the moon landing happened in a Holywood studio!!

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Agreed. Missed calls can and often do go both ways. Some were missed on both sides.

But I repeat. Show me a game where a team gets one free for an entire half. I doubt you can.
Can you even recall a game where the free count was 17 to 4 as it was in the 3rd/4th? That's more than 4 to 1 against. In am even contested game. Pure math shows everyone what happened. The rest is rhetoric.

Wathc the replay again as the numbers make sense when you see the game not just look at the stats

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

A penalty count of 2:1 is what you might expect when one team is badly beaten as we were in 2014. Which was not the case last week.
Anyway it's done now. We have a corrupt game, like Rugby league - gamblers, like Soccer - administrators, like boxing - everything.
It's sad to behold.

Penalty count ?? LOL last time I looked they were called free kicks!!

 

[Randomizor]

Didn't get many frees!!? They got one in an entire half of football? Can you ever remember a game in which that has happened?
And this was a game which was VERY even (in all respects except the umpiring), so it's plain wrong to argue the Dogs just got to the ball first.

This game was very clearly rigged to come out one way. While it's not impossible the umps were paid by gamblers; I think it very likely the AFL wanted a Victorian premiership and great story. They are now an "entertainment" company more than a sporting body.

Freo vs Dogs last year. It took until 13:24 in the 3rd quarter for us to get our second free kick.

In 2014 against the Dogs we only received 4 frees for an entire match.

We still won both games though...

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

If some of the nutter conspiracy theorists would bother to watch the game again there were at least three incidents where the Dogs were paid free kicks downfield\advantage and we already had the ball so the free kick had no impact on the play. Add to that the number of times the Swans were caught with the ball (eg Callam Mills 1st Qtr, Ramke last Qtr) it is clear that there was no bias its just that the Dogs game is built on hard tackling and quick handball disposal.
When you watch the last quarter you can see the Swans were totlally shot and did well to hang on as long as they did, another ten minutes or so and it would have been 10 goals.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

No. I had no idea! Tell me, how do you know so much about me?

Not only did the Dogs win the flag, their supporters have supernatural powers.

Is there nothing the mighty Dogs can't do?

No theres not!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No theres not!

Gee I've enjoyed you guys' contributions since the Dogs won the flag.

 

[Werewolf]

If some of the nutter conspiracy theorists would bother to watch the game again there were at least three incidents where the Dogs were paid free kicks downfield\advantage and we already had the ball so the free kick had no impact on the play. Add to that the number of times the Swans were caught with the ball (eg Callum Mills 1st Qtr, Rampe last Qtr) it is clear that there was no bias its just that the Dogs game is built on hard tackling and quick handball disposal.
When you watch the last quarter you can see the Swans were totally shot and did well to hang on as long as they did, another ten minutes or so and it would have been 10 goals.

Actually five for us (three in Q1, two in Q4) and only one to the Swans (Q1)