Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[Kane McGoodwin]

It’s funny how a few people on here still hate on Kelly

He’s the type of role player that every team needs in their side - you simply can’t have 22 stars

Also, with Lever going, it's a great opportunity to take up some of the intercepting slack this year.

Kelly may be blue collar, but he rarely let's us down. Until we have someone better, he is clearly best 22.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don’t reckon Kelly’s responsibilities will change. It’ll be more up to those who replace Lever and Smith (whether it be Doedee and Milera or otherwise) to fill their predecessor’s shoes. Whether they do the job just as well is another question

I can't see why both Kelly & Doedee can't play the intercept role as needed. Imo, we should see more growth in Kelly.

 

[marty36]

Also, with Lever going, it's a great opportunity to take up some of the intercepting slack this year.

Kelly may be blue collar, but he rarely let's us down. Until we have someone better, he is clearly best 22.

You could say he took Cheney’s role from the previous year, your description matched a 2016 Cheney


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[Kane McGoodwin]

You could say he took Cheney’s role from the previous year, your description matched a 2016 Cheney


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Indeed, he would be in the mix... but Kelly is currently the incumbent.

 

[marty36]

Indeed, he would be in the mix... but Kelly is currently the incumbent.

For sure, Cheney will need to not only prove himself but hope either form or injury will get him an opportunity


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[Vader]

Disagree

He makes things happen and opens up the game

In process he may get caught sometimes doing this but when he doesn't it will end up in something productive and a scoring chain quite often

He tries to make things happen and open up the game. When it's congested, he fails more often than not, because he spends so long looking for the right option that his viable options dry up completely. The end result is that he's a turnover looking for somewhere to happen under those conditions.

When he has an opponent like Essendon, who play a fast, flowing, open game plan - he excels. He has the time to find those good options, which open up the game for us. When he's playing someone like Richmond or Sydney, who bottle things up, he's horrible.

His creativity and willingness to take the game on and look for an option that will open the game up is both a blessing and a curse, depending on how the opposition play.

 

[GreyCrow]

He tries to make things happen and open up the game. When it's congested, he fails more often than not, because he spends so long looking for the right option that his viable options dry up completely. The end result is that he's a turnover looking for somewhere to happen under those conditions.

When he has an opponent like Essendon, who play a fast, flowing, open game plan - he excels. He has the time to find those good options, which open up the game for us. When he's playing someone like Richmond or Sydney, who bottle things up, he's horrible.

His creativity and willingness to take the game on and look for an option that will open the game up is both a blessing and a curse, depending on how the opposition play.

I really like the first paragraph. This has been my observation at games.

 

[Golumless]

Beg to differ. He runs himself into trouble, looking for the perfect option until he gets caught or forced to turn it over. He's horrible when the game gets congested.

It's a weird thing because if there is no option, you are better copping the holding the ball then taking a poor kicking option seeing it gives another couple of seconds to the defensive side. Atkins goes to the extreme with this and ignores 50/50s.

That hopefully corrects itself in the next 20-40 games.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

He tries to make things happen and open up the game. When it's congested, he fails more often than not, because he spends so long looking for the right option that his viable options dry up completely. The end result is that he's a turnover looking for somewhere to happen under those conditions.

When he has an opponent like Essendon, who play a fast, flowing, open game plan - he excels. He has the time to find those good options, which open up the game for us. When he's playing someone like Richmond or Sydney, who bottle things up, he's horrible.

His creativity and willingness to take the game on and look for an option that will open the game up is both a blessing and a curse, depending on how the opposition play.

You need a guy like him , not 22 like him but you don't want 22 Matt Crouch's either

 

[marty36]

You need a guy like him , not 22 like him but you don't want 22 Matt Crouch's either

No one can afford 22 Matt crouches there is a salary cap which is why there are all abilities in a team

 

[marty36]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham
$9
Darcy & Raynor
$10
LDU
$14
Glass & Florent
$15
Brayshaw, Dow & Bolton
$17
Settlefied & Cerra
$21
Francis, Zurhaar, Larkey, Brown, Higgins, Stephenson, Daicos, Coffield, Partington, Mutimer, Hayes, Clark & Marshall.
$23
Naughton, McKay & Stengel.

 

[Vader]

You need a guy like him , not 22 like him but you don't want 22 Matt Crouch's either

He is what he is, and you have to take the good with the bad.

My issue is that finals are always hotly contested, and frequently congested. Those are the conditions where Atkins consistently fails. The implication of this is that he's ill-suited to playing finals footy. That's the way he plays at present...

He'd be a lot better player if he didn't try to do too much with the ball in those congested games. Sometimes the best option is the first or second option, not the 5th or 6th (by which time he's turned the ball over). Decision making is one of his strengths, so I'm hopeful that he'll learn to adjust, becoming more productive in those contested/congested games.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

He is what he is, and you have to take the good with the bad.

My issue is that finals are always hotly contested, and frequently congested. Those are the conditions where Atkins consistently fails. The implication of this is that he's ill-suited to playing finals footy. That's the way he plays at present...

He'd be a lot better player if he didn't try to do too much with the ball in those congested games. Sometimes the best option is the first or second option, not the 5th or 6th (by which time he's turned the ball over). Decision making is one of his strengths, so I'm hopeful that he'll learn to adjust, becoming more productive in those contested/congested games.

I agree with your thoughts on his output so far in Finals .....but IMO he is improving his contested work ......at 23 and just broken the 50 game mark, his best footy is ahead of him IMO

 

[Deaneus!]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham

Was looking at them Monday, both strike me as good value.

Graham, has a premiership medal and is still eligible for the Rising Star, bloody hell.

 

[azza77]

I'd personally get rid of Kelly's role altogether for a more attacking defender.

More versatile players are superior and having another creative player in the backlines would assist with our transition from defence. Kelly is very one-dimensional and I'm not sure we benefit greatly from his fourth-string lockdown role.

The coaches seem to agree that Kelly is a role player too, rating him the 24th best player in the B&F with the lowest vote average by far out of players that played more than 20 games. That puts him in prime "position vulnerable" status.

You replace Kelly with an attacking defender, then who takes the big midfielders resting forward? Who takes the Martins/Ziebells/Rockliffs/Greenwood type players when they go forward?

I wrote off Kelly as depth only at the start of last year, due to his poor decision making and kicking ability, however he’s improved that out of sight and is a crucial cog in our defence. Kelly is the perfect utility.

He’s fit and tall enough to take the hard running 3rd talls, but he can also play on the mediums and some smalls.

We need someone like him to allow Doedee to play a purely intercept and rebound role. You take Kelly out, then Doedee will have to play in his position and then who intercepts for us?

 

[Big Gazoongas]

You need a guy like him , not 22 like him but you don't want 22 Matt Crouch's either

Sure you don't want 22 MCrouch's but you also don't want a bloke that does everything possible to avoid body contact. This is my biggest criticism of rat and why he he struggles in the tight congested finals atmosphere type of games.

I also don't subscribe to the view by many on this board that he has an elite leg. I'll also add that his decision making and delivery in tight games has cost us dearly.....the Sydney game at home last year is a classic example.

 

[Scorpus]

You replace Kelly with an attacking defender, then who takes the big midfielders resting forward? Who takes the Martins/Ziebells/Rockliffs/Greenwood type players when they go forward?

I wrote off Kelly as depth only at the start of last year, due to his poor decision making and kicking ability, however he’s improved that out of sight and is a crucial cog in our defence. Kelly is the perfect utility.

He’s fit and tall enough to take the hard running 3rd talls, but he can also play on the mediums and some smalls.

We need someone like him to allow Doedee to play a purely intercept and rebound role. You take Kelly out, then Doedee will have to play in his position and then who intercepts for us?

Why do we need a pure intercept defender and a separate pure lockdown medium defender?

The ball can't be in two places at the same time. If a midfielder resting forward is getting off the chain, you put a bloke like Doedee or Hartigan on them. If that takes away from intercepting you roll out another half back flank.

Especially when you consider a lot of attacking play comes from fast breaks and most teams don't have four permanent deep forwards that require hard lockdown roles, I don't see why we need four lockdown defenders.

My ideal structure would have Talia, Hartigan and Brown as the lockdown players for talls and smalls. A hybrid intercepting defender (Doedee) plays a support role. Then you have Laird and Milera as rebounding half backs and a taller HBF utility like Seedsman in support. That should be sufficient for most forward lines while also providing plenty of creativity from defence.

I don't know how you can say Kelly is the perfect utility. He literally only plays one role; he's one of the least versatile players in the team which is the opposite of what utility should be

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham
$9
Darcy & Raynor
$10
LDU
$14
Glass & Florent
$15
Brayshaw, Dow & Bolton
$17
Settlefied & Cerra
$21
Francis, Zurhaar, Larkey, Brown, Higgins, Stephenson, Daicos, Coffield, Partington, Mutimer, Hayes, Clark & Marshall.
$23
Naughton, McKay & Stengel.

Doedee & Gallucci would be our best 2 chances, but gather someone will win from one of the lesser clubs as they will standout more.

 

[marty36]

Why do we need a pure intercept defender and a separate pure lockdown medium defender?

The ball can't be in two places at the same time. If a midfielder resting forward is getting off the chain, you put a bloke like Doedee or Hartigan on them. If that takes away from intercepting you roll out another half back flank.

Especially when you consider a lot of attacking play comes from fast breaks and most teams don't have four permanent deep forwards that require hard lockdown roles, I don't see why we need four lockdown defenders.

My ideal structure would have Talia, Hartigan and Brown as the lockdown players for talls and smalls. A hybrid intercepting defender (Doedee) plays a support role. Then you have Laird and Milera as rebounding half backs and a taller HBF utility like Seedsman in support. That should be sufficient for most forward lines while also providing plenty of creativity from defence.

I don't know how you can say Kelly is the perfect utility. He literally only plays one role; he's one of the least versatile players in the team which is the opposite of what utility should be

Lot of faith shown in someone that we dont know if he can play at AFL level or not when we know Kelly can

You are very optomistic

 

[marty36]

Was looking at them Monday, both strike me as good value.

Graham, has a premiership medal and is still eligible for the Rising Star, bloody hell.

Missed opportunity there and a SA lad at that

But dont worry we have Pohlkoke

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Missed opportunity there and a SA lad at that

But dont worry we have Pohlkoke

Is that being sarcastic ?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Sure you don't want 22 MCrouch's but you also don't want a bloke that does everything possible to avoid body contact. This is my biggest criticism of rat and why he he struggles in the tight congested finals atmosphere type of games.

I also don't subscribe to the view by many on this board that he has an elite leg. I'll also add that his decision making and delivery in tight games has cost us dearly.....the Sydney game at home last year is a classic example.

Immaturity ?

 

[azza77]

Why do we need a pure intercept defender and a separate pure lockdown medium defender?

The ball can't be in two places at the same time. If a midfielder resting forward is getting off the chain, you put a bloke like Doedee or Hartigan on them. If that takes away from intercepting you roll out another half back flank.

Especially when you consider a lot of attacking play comes from fast breaks and most teams don't have four permanent deep forwards that require hard lockdown roles, I don't see why we need four lockdown defenders.

I don't know how you can say Kelly is the perfect utility. He literally only plays one role; he's one of the least versatile players in the team which is the opposite of what utility should be

So why did we play Lever and Kelly all of last year if it’s not needed then?

Defenders can’t be one out all over the place. Forwards will lead into space and kill them every time. If it wasn’t for intercept defender josh kennedy would be kicking 100 goals a year off the lead.

So you need intercept defenders and someone that is damn good at it. You can’t just “roll another one back”. While the talls are manning the talls, Kelly takes the next in line, which is mostly a power midfielder these days and allows an intercept defender like Doedee to play his role. If not, Doedee gets stuck in a 1v1 battle.

Also, utility might be the wrong word for Kelly, he’s versatile I meant to say. He played on Fantasia and Elliot last year, he played on the likes of Petracca, Caddy and Dangerfield, then he also played on the likes of Trengove, Darling and Lobb from memory. He’s also even played loose at times.

His ability to do that, and do that well gives our backline great versatility regardless of what change ups the opposition makes, and it allows others to be given a more attacking license.

 

[MRB37]

Is that being sarcastic ?

He just likes sooking every time we don't draft an SAer.

 

[1970crow]

This doesn't contradict anything I said. He is precisely a role player and you should always look to upgrade role players if someone better comes along

Exactly, he can upgrade Mackay for a year.