Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[Kane McGoodwin]

I remember reading it somewhere, think it was in the lead up to the game that shall not be named about the impact of Smith's loss but can't find it, but Smith took something like 80% of our kick outs last year

We need to spread the load with kickins this year, with whoever replaces Smith - Milera/Seed/Dougie, a long with others.

Hopefully they are all practicing more than the kick it to Sauce option & mix things up.

 

[marty36]

So your bias allows you to post whatever rubbish you want then?

And no you haven't been justified, it doesn't matter how many times you've met Burton, it has nothing to do with how he's going to turn out in the long run. Rhys Palmer won the rising star award and he turned out well didn't he?



That's funny, it seems wages only matter when it's in defense of your favourites, but when it's a rookie (you don't like) on a low wage all of a sudden you don't care what he's earning.

There's a simple fact in this situation that you can't seem to wrap your head around and it's that Jenkins and Mackay have both played over a hundred AFL games whereas Doedee has zero. You have no business telling others to be as critical of Doedee as they are of the other two, you only do so because you don't like him. The only reason you say your criticism is directed at Ogilvie instead of Doedee is because you don't want people to think your opinion isn't reasonable, but you wouldn't be looking to blame someone for his selection if you hadn't already written him off, and that's hardly reasonable at this early stage.

He could be real lucky and get to a doughty status but the tripe that’s written that he’s a certain starter

FFS he hasn’t played a game

Comparing him to Lever we know what Lever was like in his third year

Go get a nuetral supporters opinion if you like we all know what it will be


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[marty36]

Excellent example of Trumpism in MartyWorld.

You stated loud and long that Greenwood and Keath were not ready for AFL last year. After being selected mid-season, TMT retained his place in the team including all three finals. “He now looks like making the grade”. You went on and on and on and on about how ridiculous it was for some of us to suggest Keath would be a better tall defender than Otten. Eventually Keath was selected and guess what, he was preferred to Otten as a defender prior to Hartigan’s return. “Keath showed a bit”.

Prior to playing their first game, Doedee and Poholke are 50/50.

Fair dinkum, you’re like Nostradamus. No doubt when Doedee and Poholke get a game and show some promise you will claim this justifies your opinion that they struggled early in their AFL career .

Greenwood held his own Keath showed a bit

Were either influenced in the season, no they had no bearing second year in for greenwood and he may or may not show more time will tell Keath will improve

And that shows 99% of players in their first year of AFL do t contribute any fantastic amount

I suppose Doedee could be that 1% and I could win power ball tonight aswell


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[fabs33]

He could be real lucky and get to a doughty status but the tripe that’s written that he’s a certain starter

FFS he hasn’t played a game

Comparing him to Lever we know what Lever was like in his third year

Yes, let's all defer to your infinite wisdom as the be all and end all in talent identification.

Go get a nuetral supporters opinion if you like we all know what it will be

I'm sure all neutral supporters will agree with your stance that we should be as critical of players with more than a hundred AFL games under their belts as we are of players yet to debut.

 

[matty p]

Greenwood held his own Keath showed a bit

Were either influenced in the season, no they had no bearing second year in for greenwood and he may or may not show more time will tell Keath will improve

And that shows 99% of players in their first year of AFL do t contribute any fantastic amount

I suppose Doedee could be that 1% and I could win power ball tonight aswell


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You think Greenwood only just "held his own" and didn't influence our team last season? Wow.

 

[marty36]

You think Greenwood only just "held his own" and didn't influence our team last season? Wow.

Who would you start Gibbs Crouch Crouch Sloane or greenwood

And remember we got smashed in the mid on GF day

Still saying that I would go Gibbs Sloane Crouch followed by Crouch




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[marty36]

Yes, let's all defer to your infinite wisdom as the be all and end all in talent identification.


I'm sure all neutral supporters will agree with your stance that we should be as critical of players with more than a hundred AFL games under their belts as we are of players yet to debut.

Not about 100 game players Adelaide posters are delusional they think he’s a chance at the rising star

Go have a look at the betting odds Money talks BS walks

Most nuetral supporters say we failed not Port supporters who are biased or Adelaide supporters who are biased the other way


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[1970crow]

Disagree, turning it over coming out of defence regularly results in a goal to the opposition. It's one of the places you want your elite kicks. Smith, Laird for example

You don't have to be an elite kick to not turn it over coming out of the backline. You just need to be a good decision maker and understand your limitations. Hitting targets in confined spaces in the forward line requires a much better kick than simply not turning it over coming out of the backline.

 

[1970crow]

Bullshit. You have deep confirmation bias. Shocking.

Doedee was second in our B&F and Best intercept mark in the SANFL at 19. That's fantastic.

But you've bet big on him being a failure because you were so foolishly outspoken when he was drafted. Instead of saying "well, we have a great history in player identification", you carried on like an idiot for months when he was drafted. And instead of just dropping it when he started to show good form, you kept doubling down on him failing. You've painted yourself into a corner. You would rather be right on the internet that want what is best for the club - which is a successful Doedee.

Will you disappear like NT Rabbit did, when Crouch came good?

Marty isn't as bad as Rabbit. Doedee is tracking extremely well and there's good reason to be excited about him going forward. But he still has to take the step up to the big league. Whereas Matt Crouch was always comfortably ahead of the curve at the highest level.

 

[matty p]

Who would you start Gibbs Crouch Crouch Sloane or greenwood

And remember we got smashed in the mid on GF day

Still saying that I would go Gibbs Sloane Crouch followed by Crouch




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Well you were talking about last season, so Gibbs isn't really relevant. Greenwood was the 4th most important midfielder in a team that finished top and made the GF. I'd say he had an impact. Unfortunately he was carrying an injury at the end of the season so his input was down on GF day, but so were many of our others.

If you're trying to suggest that Greenwood shouldn't be in our best 22 this season with Gibbs in the side, I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[Thetrader15]

Nope. He only missed 2 games from round 1 to 19 (dropped in round 20), which were to do with a calf injury.

We gave him a massive block of games, and that's despite a real second year blues thing occurring for Wayne.

I don't know, these people who bring out facts to refute my argument just aren't playing fair!

Ok, I revoke my position

 

[marty36]

Well you were talking about last season, so Gibbs isn't really relevant. Greenwood was the 4th most important midfielder in a team that finished top and made the GF. I'd say he had an impact. Unfortunately he was carrying an injury at the end of the season so his input was down on GF day, but so were many of our others.

If you're trying to suggest that Greenwood shouldn't be in our best 22 this season with Gibbs in the side, I wholeheartedly disagree.

Didn’t say that at all he is in the 22

I said greenwood may go to the next level he may not I said he wasn’t a superstar in his 1 st year of afl football as 99% of players aren’t, he’s not alone

Some think he is as good as Gibbs Sloane crouch Crouch even Douglas was better last year

He may overtake Douglas he may not it may only be because of douglas’s age remember he won a b and F, will greenwood ?


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[azza77]

Laird is certainly not an elite kick, but does work around his limits well.

He’s not an elite kick because he can’t bang it 60m long and look cool while doing so like Smith etc?

He consistently hits those 20-30m passes, which might I add are the hardest to execute in footy, WHILE under a lot of pressure normally. It’s one of his best traits.

Time after time I’ve seen him up shit creek without a paddle and he pulls off this neat little pass to a team mate out in space.

I won’t sit here and argue the semantics of an ‘elite kick’ but I think he’s seriously underrated. Don’t underestimate how vital it is to pull off those passes and keep possession under high pressure situations.

 

[1970crow]

Who would you start Gibbs Crouch Crouch Sloane or greenwood

And remember we got smashed in the mid on GF day

Still saying that I would go Gibbs Sloane Crouch followed by Crouch




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Their defence absolutely embarrassed our forward line. They launched from there without pressure. It was our trademark method of losing. Get the ball forward under pressure, concede possession in our forward 50, apply zero pressure to defender, roll out the red carpet between the arcs and give our defenders almost no hope. I've seen this movie a number of times over the last few years. Our top 3 mids gathered about 10 more touches than Richmonds and we conceded only 9 more inside 50's. We were done for quality which was more about our ability to rotate numbers through the midfield. That's why we were under pressure and our delivery forward faltered. Our structure down there is only good if we're sending them pressureless ball.

 

[fabs33]

Not about 100 game players Adelaide posters are delusional they think he’s a chance at the rising star

Go have a look at the betting odds Money talks BS walks

Most nuetral supporters say we failed not Port supporters who are biased or Adelaide supporters who are biased the other way


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You really struggle to maintain focus in a discussion, don't you? Two or three posts into a discussion and you've already forgotten what the original point was.

This isn't about Doedee versus Burton, it's not about supporters having high expectations of him, and it's not about Ogilvie. It's about you expecting people to be as critical of Doedee as they are of Jenkins and Mackay. It's just not going to happen until he's reached a similar amount of games as they have and shown what he's got. Time and time again when someone points out your incessant criticism of Doedee you compare it the criticism of those two coming from a multitude of people. It's in no way comparable, people judge those two on their AFL performances. You might not like what they say, they may be wrong, but at least they gave those two players a chance to step onto an AFL field.

That's as much time as I'm willing to spend addressing your anti-Doedee drivel.

 

[GameofSloanes]

You don't have to be an elite kick to not turn it over coming out of the backline. You just need to be a good decision maker and understand your limitations. Hitting targets in confined spaces in the forward line requires a much better kick than simply not turning it over coming out of the backline.

Imo the goal coming out of defence is more than not turning it over though. It is finding a target that is in a position to continue moving the ball and set up an attack. Decision making definitely important. If you get that kick right the forward line often won't be congested as you've been able to move the ball quickly

 

[GameofSloanes]

Their defence absolutely embarrassed our forward line. They launched from there without pressure. It was our trademark method of losing. Get the ball forward under pressure, concede possession in our forward 50, apply zero pressure to defender, roll out the red carpet between the arcs and give our defenders almost no hope. I've seen this movie a number of times over the last few years. Our top 3 mids gathered about 10 more touches than Richmonds and we conceded only 9 more inside 50's. We were done for quality which was more about our ability to rotate numbers through the midfield. That's why we were under pressure and our delivery forward faltered. Our structure down there is only good if we're sending them pressureless ball.

And is why mcgovern is important

 

[marty36]

You really struggle to maintain focus in a discussion, don't you? Two or three posts into a discussion and you've already forgotten what the original point was.

This isn't about Doedee versus Burton, it's not about supporters having high expectations of him, and it's not about Ogilvie. It's about you expecting people to be as critical of Doedee as they are of Jenkins and Mackay. It's just not going to happen until he's reached a similar amount of games as they have and shown what he's got. Time and time again when someone points out your incessant criticism of Doedee you compare it the criticism of those two coming from a multitude of people. It's in no way comparable, people judge those two on their AFL performances. You might not like what they say, they may be wrong, but at least they gave those two players a chance to step onto an AFL field.

That's as much time as I'm willing to spend addressing your anti-Doedee drivel.

My anti Doedee stance is because we failed to nab an SA lad who is going to be sensational

And why do I have to list the list Victorian talent


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[Coopers]

Oh yeah...

That final means that we're 1-4 without him over the last three seasons. Not enough games to draw a strong conclusion (hopefully).

Without checking though it feels like when he plays badly we often are poor.

Pretty sure Sanders can draw a conclusion from that set.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm not going to complain if this happens, but I'd prefer Milera's precision hitting targets inside the forward 50. You don't need to be as much of an elite leg coming out of the back half. It's much harder hitting targets inside the forward 50.

..What was Smith doing last year then? ......IIRC Smith was having a lot of forward entries AND kicking goals

 

[1970crow]

..What was Smith doing last year then? ......IIRC Smith was having a lot of forward entries AND kicking goals

Smith has a 60-65m cannon, Milera is more a caresser by foot and he certainly doesn't have that range.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Smith has a 60-65m cannon, Milera is more a caresser by foot and he certainly doesn't have that range.

Yes i agree .....but still believe Milera will be able to run, carry, & deliver to the forwards .....even if he's a caresser, he's an 80 mtr player, if he runs 40 mtrs and delivers a 40mtr pass

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Their defence absolutely embarrassed our forward line. They launched from there without pressure. It was our trademark method of losing. Get the ball forward under pressure, concede possession in our forward 50, apply zero pressure to defender, roll out the red carpet between the arcs and give our defenders almost no hope. I've seen this movie a number of times over the last few years. Our top 3 mids gathered about 10 more touches than Richmonds and we conceded only 9 more inside 50's. We were done for quality which was more about our ability to rotate numbers through the midfield. That's why we were under pressure and our delivery forward faltered. Our structure down there is only good if we're sending them pressureless ball.

I see it as our major issue coming into this year too
Our forward line looks awesome when game played on our terms and we get quick 'transition' from half back

With smith out and Cameron out we need our key forwards to compete better especially in the air and we need Galluci or similar to come in and be manic with their pressure

It wouldn't surprise me if we need to rejig our forward line as it may be too tall especially if the forwards aren't getting it done in the air as those same forwards don't apply enough pressure to struggle in the air

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I see it as our major issue coming into this year too
Our forward line looks awesome when game played on our terms and we get quick 'transition' from half back

With smith out and Cameron out we need our key forwards to compete better especially in the air and we need Galluci or similar to come in and be manic with their pressure

It wouldn't surprise me if we need to rejig our forward line as it may be too tall especially if the forwards aren't getting it done in the air as those same forwards don't apply enough pressure to struggle in the air

How do you see the side's pace overall, compared to last year ?

 

[1970crow]

Yes i agree .....but still believe Milera will be able to run, carry, & deliver to the forwards .....even if he's a caresser, he's an 80 mtr player, if he runs 40 mtrs and delivers a 40mtr pass

Smith carried as well. Running 40m is at least 2 bounces though and that's pretty rare. There's also the issue of tank, Milera only now would be starting to get to what's required to be a hard runner. I'm not sure he'd yet be confident in being responsible for a player and running hard off him. But, as I said, I won't be complaining, I'd just prefer him on a wing where more of his kicks will be hitting up the 50m mark and closer.