Game Day 2017 National Draft

[didaksrightfoot]

So one minute a player could be off to his preferred Club and then in the blink off to Queensland or somewhere less favourable, MindF@rk!,,

Since when do players get to decide which club drafts them? This is no different. They havent even signed a contract yet and the draft is still in play.

 

[DraftBalta]

We could go with best available at 6 (Stephenson Coffield etc) and then go lucky dip on key positions sans Tyler Brown

6: Coffield
38: McCartin/Petty/Clavarino
56: Miller/Taylor
61: McLean/Butts
70: T Brown

Try and get lucky

 

[Knightmare]

as far as pure kpp go he would be my favourite. Fogarty will be a really good 3rd tall fwd. Where do you see Balta playing his best footy fwd or back?

Balta is a genuine 18 position player.

I most like him forward, but most say he's best as a key defender and question his capabilities as a forward.

I just hold him in higher regard, it feels like. Not only is he a freak athlete, but gets to front position, strong overhead, but then freakish at ground level - taking it cleanly on the move. Big kick. Takes on the game with his run. Could improve his leading patterns - but then again he hasn't played so much up forward being used mostly as a ruck by necessity in TAC Cup level leaving him untapped and potentially anything.

 

[Soups]

I would almost guarantee the Pies select a KPP. There is no way they would have delisted Schade and Keeffe if they didn’t intend to replace them in the draft.

It’s think it’s hard to tell. They could be really confident on getting Lynch or someone else next year. If that’s true I can see them backing the talls we have now because a mid is going to come along quicker than a KPP. They can develop a tall picked up with our 3rd rounder along with McLarty.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I would almost guarantee the Pies select a KPP. There is no way they would have delisted Schade and Keeffe if they didn’t intend to replace them in the draft.

Has to be with pick 6 for one of them.

We can't just pick KPP with rookie picks and expect they are going to make it. We are just going to churn them out every 3-4 years, and it would result in some hacks like Corey Gault spent far too long on our list (5 years!) when he did nothing, just because there are no other options.

 

[soreplums]

I would almost guarantee the Pies select a KPP. There is no way they would have delisted Schade and Keeffe if they didn’t intend to replace them in the draft.

Unless they bring one in via DFA

 

[Hardas]

I'm jealous of the Saints with picks 7 and 8. That was some deal they did with the Hawks last year

Does put them in a great spot, although we still get to pick before them.

Fogarty or Cerra would be beauties, I reckon.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Balta is a genuine 18 position player.

I most like him forward, but most say he's best as a key defender and question his capabilities as a forward.

I just hold him in higher regard, it feels like. Not only is he a freak athlete, but gets to front position, strong overhead, but then freakish at ground level - taking it cleanly on the move. Big kick. Takes on the game with his run. Could improve his leading patterns - but then again he hasn't played so much up forward being used mostly as a ruck by necessity in TAC Cup level leaving him untapped and potentially anything.

Yeah I saw your earlier take on Balta vs Brander as well and sounds like Balta is more suited to being a quality footballer, whilst Brander may just be the more attractive athlete that clubs get excited about but not necessarily a good prospect.

Only question - any idea where clubs rate them? (If you're allowed to say). Just seemed like in all the mock drafts I saw, Brander was around 6, whilst Balta was in the teens.
If that's the case, do you think if we wanted Balta we would've been more active in trading down 6 to get 2 lower 1st round picks? Just seems like a waste to take Balta at 6 if there was a good chance he wouldve slipped down otherwise?

 

[Ricky90]

Live trading of picks will be fantastic. Real opportunities for bargains here.

Take the 2013 draft for example.

We went in with pick 6 and 10. Hopes were to get Bont at 6, not expecting him to go earlier and Aish at 10 knowing that Lions were the only risk but prefered Scharenberg at 7.

Dogs swooped on Bont, so we took Scharenberg hoping the Lions would take a lesser flight risk and we could still have Aish at 10. That didn't happen either.

Disaster. We got Freeman at 10 and we were only ever lukewarm on him, if I recall correctly.

You redo that with live trading and we might have been able to trade pick 10 for the Saints 18 and 19. Or, depending on how its implemented, we might have been able to opt out from there and trade for a clubs first round selection in the next year's draft.

 

[Hardas]

Unless they bring one in via DFA

Almost feels like they might bring in two DFA's.
Most likely one DFA, like Collins or Talia, then one or two in the draft.
Doesn't mean it has to happen with pick 6, of course.

 

[BPikkers]

Unless they bring one in via DFA

Is a ‘DFA’ a delisted free agent? If it is, they are only stop gaps. You need to draft one to be a 10 year player. Unless one of the top 4 or 5 midfielders slide, I’d be just drafting KPP with the first 2 picks. Who is the best genuine KPP? If it’s Bander then I expect the Pies drafting him in the absence of the above. That’s why they probably didn’t entertain swapping out of pick 6. And to be honest, they didn’t seem too concerned about upgrading the 3rd round into something higher, so that must be confident that they next pick will land them another tall.

 

[Knightmare]

Warning incoming melt/pre-draft rant.

There really should be no debate on who we select with pick 6. It should be key position and nothing else.

We don't need another midfielder. We have midfielders coming out of our assholes. So much so that Jordan De Goey can't even get a regular rotation. And if we want to give Brayden Maynard more midfield opportunity then that another one competing for 5 starting sports and 2-3 off the bench.

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar, Adams, Wells, Hoskin-Elliott, Greenwood, Phillips, Crisp, Aish, Maynard, Broomhead, Wills, Thomas, Smith, Sier, Brown.

All played midfield as juniors, enough depth to bat 3 midfield units deep. Pendles and Wells got injured last season and we were fine.

We don't need another one for at least a couple of years. I don't care how talented the current 2017 draft crop are. We spent 3 first round picks on Treloar and De Goey. 3 second round picks on Hoskin-Elliott and Aish. It's time to own up to our drafting/trading decisions of the past and play these guys in the position they are meant to play. Instead of playing them on a flank. And for that reason too, we don't need to draft any flankers. Our flank positions are full by midfielders who can't get a midfield position!

Also how the hell our we going to improve our key position stocks if we continually ignore picking them in the top 30. Nowdays anything in the the draft that is Pick 30 and beyond is a speculative pick. We are not going unearth a 100 gamer key position player with a player selected later than pick 30.

Our key position draft history for past 6 years confirms this theory:
2016 McLarty 30 - Too early to tell.
2016 McCarthy Rookie - Delisted.
2016 Schade Rookie - Delisted.
2015 Keeffe Rookie - Delisted.
2014 Moore 9 - The only decent young key position player on our list. And guess what, he was a top 30 pick.
2013 Marsh 77 - Delisted.
2013 Gault Rookie - Delisted.
2012 Frost Rookie - Traded but pretty much would of been delisted.
2011 Paine 50 - Ditto.

To have only Moore and maybe McLarty to show for is disgusting list management. And that's if McLarty pans out.

The majority of the draft experts in the press have Jarrod Brander as the best key position prospect in the draft and from what I have read he should be available at Pick 6 as there is a clear top 4 or 5 players that are midfield or flankers. I just don't get why you would not pick him. It's seems a no brainer to me. Last time we had a no brainer pick, it was Brodie Grundy and that turned out fantastic. We desperately needed a ruckman at the time and the best one fell into our laps at Pick 18.
Well, we desperately need a key position forward and we are perfect position to get the best one in the draft.
Please don't **** it up. Don't over think it. Fogarty isn't big enough. Hayes is a ruckman. And we don't have a 2nd round pick for this draft and the next draft so if we don't go key position in the first round, it will be another speculative pick in the 30s or 50s or 60s which have a very low chance of making it.

Picking Brander or Balta or Naughton is not going to mean that we can't go after Tom Lynch next year. Far from it. It will give us a tall that we can take our time in developing in the VFL and perhaps allow us to trial Darcy Moore at centre half back and not so be reliant on Ben Reid whose quads are held together by sticky tape or a 5 foot 10 Jamie Elliott with a bad back to kick our goals.

Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position.

To play devil's advocate.

What if a Judd/Dangerfield/Pendlebury/D.Martin come from LDU, Dow, Cerra, Rayner respectively? And Brander becomes Dawes, Naughton becomes Michael Talia, Balta becomes S.Frost and Fogarty becomes Jackson Paine?

Rayner, LDU, Cerra and Dow are the four clear standout talents on another level with the scope to be stars and probability to be at least very high level performers. While the talls on the other hand really are coin flips.

Pick 38 I'm down for a key defender. If any of Petty/Taylor/Clavarino are there, and I'm expecting at least one of the three to be there, that's an easy decision as a long term piece that fits the lists needs and also represents solid value.

At pick 6 though, if it's me, I'm going with one of my four stars if they get through. If it's Cerra who is the more likely of the three. I'd more than happily play him forward as even up forward while it was only a small glimpse, kicking 3 goals and 5 behinds in a half is ridiculous stuff.
If none of those preferred four of mine are there, I'm completely with you. Go tall. Take the chance. And my personal choice is Balta - though Naughton/Fogarty are probably the direction I'm more so expecting Collingwood to look.
I just can't deny going for value, when you're talking about a probably star v someone who may not make it.

Smart teams fill their list needs through free agency and the trade period and put themselves in positions where they can just go into the draft and take the best player. Collingwood aren't yet one of those smart teams, but perhaps next year if they take a shot at and succeed in signing Tom Lynch from Gold Coast, maybe it's stepping towards that.

 

[Hardas]

Balta is a genuine 18 position player.

I most like him forward, but most say he's best as a key defender and question his capabilities as a forward.

I just hold him in higher regard, it feels like. Not only is he a freak athlete, but gets to front position, strong overhead, but then freakish at ground level - taking it cleanly on the move. Big kick. Takes on the game with his run. Could improve his leading patterns - but then again he hasn't played so much up forward being used mostly as a ruck by necessity in TAC Cup level leaving him untapped and potentially anything.

What would say is the biggest knock on him, KM, and what's your response to that?
Cheers.

 

[Knightmare]

Yeah I saw your earlier take on Balta vs Brander as well and sounds like Balta is more suited to being a quality footballer, whilst Brander may just be the more attractive athlete that clubs get excited about but not necessarily a good prospect.

Only question - any idea where clubs rate them? (If you're allowed to say). Just seemed like in all the mock drafts I saw, Brander was around 6, whilst Balta was in the teens.
If that's the case, do you think if we wanted Balta we would've been more active in trading down 6 to get 2 lower 1st round picks? Just seems like a waste to take Balta at 6 if there was a good chance he wouldve slipped down otherwise?

Brander was a potential number one coming into the season and has mostly been viewed as a top 10 choice, but he appears likely to just slip outside the top 10, but still probably goes top 15, for a rough feel.

Balta by contrast probably features 15-25 and is someone who divides opinion more so with some really high on him, and others not.

 

[3rdMan]

I would almost guarantee the Pies select a KPP. There is no way they would have delisted Schade and Keeffe if they didn’t intend to replace them in the draft.

This doesn't make sense to me. I strongly doubt we're going to take a KPP at 6. We will likely draft one at 38 though.

I just don't think we have 4 years to wait for a KPP to finish our list build. We only need one more major KPP (unless we really love Cox, then we don't need any). This KPP needs to be ready to impact heavily in 2019. Otherwise I don't see the point, he'd not fit in with our age profile.

Our quiet off season and no interest in Schache suggests to me we will be after a major KPP signing next off season. That pretty much completes our spine, depending how much you like Cox or McLarty. No need for pick 6 to be a KPP. And definitely no need to risk our future by passing up on a better player at 6 just because we are panicked by our lack of KPP.

 

[Knightmare]

What would say is the biggest knock on him, KM, and what's your response to that?
Cheers.

A lot of people say footy smarts, though I debate that.

My main knocks are: a lack of a clear best position and inconsistent production (in my view based on being thrown around everywhere and not having any real continuity in his footy plays a big part in this, beyond being simply young).

 

[peter moore]

Warning incoming melt/pre-draft rant.

There really should be no debate on who we select with pick 6. It should be key position and nothing else.

We don't need another midfielder. We have midfielders coming out of our assholes. So much so that Jordan De Goey can't even get a regular rotation. And if we want to give Brayden Maynard more midfield opportunity then that another one competing for 5 starting sports and 2-3 off the bench.

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar, Adams, Wells, Hoskin-Elliott, Greenwood, Phillips, Crisp, Aish, Maynard, Broomhead, Wills, Thomas, Smith, Sier, Brown.

All played midfield as juniors, enough depth to bat 3 midfield units deep. Pendles and Wells got injured last season and we were fine.

We don't need another one for at least a couple of years. I don't care how talented the current 2017 draft crop are. We spent 3 first round picks on Treloar and De Goey. 3 second round picks on Hoskin-Elliott and Aish. It's time to own up to our drafting/trading decisions of the past and play these guys in the position they are meant to play. Instead of playing them on a flank. And for that reason too, we don't need to draft any flankers. Our flank positions are full by midfielders who can't get a midfield position!

Also how the hell our we going to improve our key position stocks if we continually ignore picking them in the top 30. Nowdays anything in the the draft that is Pick 30 and beyond is a speculative pick. We are not going unearth a 100 gamer key position player with a player selected later than pick 30.

Our key position draft history for past 6 years confirms this theory:
2016 McLarty 30 - Too early to tell.
2016 McCarthy Rookie - Delisted.
2016 Schade Rookie - Delisted.
2015 Keeffe Rookie - Delisted.
2014 Moore 9 - The only decent young key position player on our list. And guess what, he was a top 30 pick.
2013 Marsh 77 - Delisted.
2013 Gault Rookie - Delisted.
2012 Frost Rookie - Traded but pretty much would of been delisted.
2011 Paine 50 - Ditto.

To have only Moore and maybe McLarty to show for is disgusting list management. And that's if McLarty pans out.

The majority of the draft experts in the press have Jarrod Brander as the best key position prospect in the draft and from what I have read he should be available at Pick 6 as there is a clear top 4 or 5 players that are midfield or flankers. I just don't get why you would not pick him. It's seems a no brainer to me. Last time we had a no brainer pick, it was Brodie Grundy and that turned out fantastic. We desperately needed a ruckman at the time and the best one fell into our laps at Pick 18.
Well, we desperately need a key position forward and we are perfect position to get the best one in the draft.
Please don't **** it up. Don't over think it. Fogarty isn't big enough. Hayes is a ruckman. And we don't have a 2nd round pick for this draft and the next draft so if we don't go key position in the first round, it will be another speculative pick in the 30s or 50s or 60s which have a very low chance of making it.

Picking Brander or Balta or Naughton is not going to mean that we can't go after Tom Lynch next year. Far from it. It will give us a tall that we can take our time in developing in the VFL and perhaps allow us to trial Darcy Moore at centre half back and not so be reliant on Ben Reid whose quads are held together by sticky tape or a 5 foot 10 Jamie Elliott with a bad back to kick our goals.

Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position,
Pick 6 must be key position.

I believe Balta is the best Kpp in the draft. Just do it!

 

[Ricky90]

A lot of people say footy smarts, though I debate that.

My main knocks are: a lack of a clear best position and inconsistent production (in my view based on being thrown around everywhere and not having any real continuity in his footy plays a big part in this, beyond being simply young).

What would your response be to the word that he's "like a dear in a headlight" at times?

Terry Wallet coined that one and a lot of people have said it's accurate.

No lateral vision and from the backline his modus operandi seems to be either (from a mark) run and carry with a long kick or stop and short side ways kicks.

Does he ever take the 45 kicks? Is he ever trusted to take kick ins? Does he ever lower the eyes and spot a target in front that's not 60m away and is he capable of hitting that target by hand and foot?

I like him, just seems a risk at 6.

Also, a poster in this very thread a week or so ago mentioned he played up a bit at a party and word got around, likely to slip, do you know anything? Might be there at 38 if it's legit.

 

[Apex36]

Balta is a genuine 18 position player.

I most like him forward, but most say he's best as a key defender and question his capabilities as a forward.

I just hold him in higher regard, it feels like. Not only is he a freak athlete, but gets to front position, strong overhead, but then freakish at ground level - taking it cleanly on the move. Big kick. Takes on the game with his run. Could improve his leading patterns - but then again he hasn't played so much up forward being used mostly as a ruck by necessity in TAC Cup level leaving him untapped and potentially anything.

I keep resigning myself to the fact that we’ll overlook Balta, but then you describe him and it makes me want him even more.

Really want Hine to do a signature reach with this kid.

 

[Knightmare]

What would your response be to the word that he's "like a dear in a headlight" at times?

Terry Wallet coined that one and a lot of people have said it's accurate.

No lateral vision and from the backline his modus operandi seems to be either (from a mark) run and carry with a long kick or stop and short side ways kicks.

Does he ever take the 45 kicks? Is he ever trusted to take kick ins? Does he ever lower the eyes and spot a target in front that's not 60m away and is he capable of hitting that target by hand and foot?

I like him, just seems a risk at 6.

Also, a poster in this very thread a week or so ago mentioned he played up a bit at a party and word got around, likely to slip, do you know anything? Might be there at 38 if it's legit.

I find 95% of the time, Balta is completely confident. Just takes on the game, runs around guys, accelerates in straight lines, bursts away from packs, winning the ball in the contest and just goes.

He is still a developing player, as a lateish starter. And he won't make the right football play as a result each time. But he's got the confidence and swagger where he'll still make something happen more often than not in the form of doing something that either drags the ball forward or influences the contest in some way.

He is more your long kicker, but he does use his vision and lower his eyes at times. So I have to give him partial marks there. It's an area I've seen growth in, and more and more he did it later in the season.

Don't know what his lifestyle choices are or whether he's a party boy or not. He strikes me as a confident sort, but beyond that I'm not in a position to give greater insight beyond the way he carries himself on the field and interacts with teammates on field/during warmups and the like. My focus is the on field stuff, and I let the clubs interview the kids, their families, teachers etc. So that's for them to make calls on.

 

[Knightmare]

I keep resigning myself to the fact that we’ll overlook Balta, but then you describe him and it makes me want him even more.

Really want Hine to do a signature reach with this kid.

I'm resigned to Collingwood overlooking Balta also. He's a 15-25 type pick. Collingwood didn't move down, so they can't be interested? He wouldn't make sense with Collingwood holding firm.

But he's the one I'm looking at and seeing impact from when he plays. Kicking 70m goals from the centre square, bursting away from contests, picking it up at full speed one handed with perfect ball control and working to front position 1v1 and taking marks strongly overhead. He has the attributes. And his production is pretty solid and matches up with most of the other talls this year. I'm just not feeling the interest from Collingwood. It feels like Naughton or maybe Fogarty is the most likely outcome. Or so I'm guessing at the moment without hearing any word.

 

[Apex36]

I'm resigned to Collingwood overlooking Balta also. He's a 15-25 type pick. Collingwood didn't move down, so they can't be interested? He wouldn't make sense with Collingwood holding firm.

But he's the one I'm looking at and seeing impact from when he plays. Kicking 70m goals from the centre square, bursting away from contests, picking it up at full speed one handed with perfect ball control and working to front position 1v1 and taking marks strongly overhead. He has the attributes. And his production is pretty solid and matches up with most of the other talls this year. I'm just not feeling the interest from Collingwood. It feels like Naughton or maybe Fogarty is the most likely outcome. Or so I'm guessing at the moment without hearing any word.

I’ll be gutted if we go for Naughton. Every time I see him kick I want to claw my eyes out.

 

[Unknown Identity]

AFL Draft show on Fox Footy had us taking Cerra at 6, most damaging going inside 50 in the draft according to their expert.

 

[CarnMags]

I would be very happy to take Bolter, Coffield, Stephenson or any drifters such as Dow, Cerra et al.

I'm not sold on a KPP kid at 6 - I'm holding onto hope that we land Lynch next year, and can move Moore to CHB with support from Shaz, Langdon, Howe.

Lynch would be perfect as a single tall option with Elliot, Fasolo and DeGoey around him.

And a midfield with Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Sidey and Cerra would be very nice.

Night all

 

[The Royal Sampler]

AFL Draft show on Fox Footy had us taking Cerra at 6, most damaging going inside 50 in the draft according to their expert.

That is indeed, indeed a need.