Analysis 2017 Non-Crows Discussion Thread - Part V for Vendetta

[Apsaalooke]

The fact that Port fans are happy with their strategy shows they accept mediocrity.

The fact that Crows fans are happy with their strategy confirms that view.

 

[subaru]

I could post a picture of the Iraqi communications Minister.

If I was a Port supporter I would hope we will be ok. The strategy is fine and could lead to a short term fix but the long term , which I think is your main focus , concerns me a lot. Its a philosophy thing so my way may not work either , but these DFAs could end up harming the development of your kids. I hear what people say that the kids can learn from these experienced players. Possibly, but they (kids) are the elite of their group. What they need is to test themselves against the elite of the next group. Not sit and stagnate at SANFL level waiting for a chance

Yes, you cant fit everyone in and it needs very good management but given a choice over a Lindsay Thomas in a forward pocket or a ( who have you got left? ) Sam Gray? give me Sam Gray every match. If thats the case then why get LT in the 1st place??

Bottom line is its up in the air and if the price v cost is equal then why not. And I shall stop rambling

I wouldn't even want Sam Gray '

 

[NikkiNoo]

Some college football games have bigger crowds than the NFL - we will never get to that unless they televise U18 games and that won’t happen as the production costs are too high.

By the way, age is a state of mind. Sometimes I act like a teenager other times my age (mid 50’s). The important thing is to make a person, be it family, work colleague or random stranger, on this earth happy each day - make someone laugh.

And one more thing, those people who piss you off and drain what I call your life force - get them out of your life. I no longer suffer idiots (which doesn’t full explain why I respond to Janus!)

Those college games are filled with currently attending students and alumni who are incredibly passionate about the school they went to. There is a lot of money in College Football because of the Alumni culture in the US. We don't have it. People don't have a link to the U18 teams like that so there isn't the interest now. Without a groundswell of interest, TV won't pay for something people don't go along and watch for free.

 

[GremioPower]

I could post a picture of the Iraqi communications Minister.

If I was a Port supporter I would hope we will be ok. The strategy is fine and could lead to a short term fix but the long term , which I think is your main focus , concerns me a lot. Its a philosophy thing so my way may not work either , but these DFAs could end up harming the development of your kids. I hear what people say that the kids can learn from these experienced players. Possibly, but they (kids) are the elite of their group. What they need is to test themselves against the elite of the next group. Not sit and stagnate at SANFL level waiting for a chance

Yes, you cant fit everyone in and it needs very good management but given a choice over a Lindsay Thomas in a forward pocket or a ( who have you got left? ) Sam Gray? give me Sam Gray every match. If thats the case then why get LT in the 1st place??

Bottom line is its up in the air and if the price v cost is equal then why not. And I shall stop rambling

Plan can backfire big time, but it fits Port's situation. Besides, I think you are underrating the value of mentorship.

 

[GremioPower]

My issue is those Port supporters that are are not just "OK with that" but are delusional enough to think this strategy was planned ( no way did you expect 5 to walk from your club) and that this untargeted recruitment fiesta guarantees you Top 4 and a flag!

Read your own board

Happy Thanksgiving, Subaru! (It's still Thursday around here)

 

[subaru]

Plan can backfire big time, but it fits Port's situation. Besides, I think you are underrating the value of mentorship.

Have yet to see a mentor make a shit footballer a great footballer. Mental issues maybe, but even then Krakouer comes to mind . Motlop has oodles of talent - how many mentors has he had? Watts - how many coaches - 5 ??? Still got dropped last year.

Happy Thanksgiving, Subaru! (It's still Thursday around here)

Tuck into that turkey my teal adversary !

 

[matty p]

Plan can backfire big time, but it fits Port's situation. Besides, I think you are underrating the value of mentorship.

Who exactly is providing this mentorship? Because Rockliff has proven to be a very poor mentor in the past, Motlop and Watts are headcases on the field, McKenzie was part of Charlie's squad up on the Gold Coast, Trengove needs to focus on his own body and game, and Thomas has had disciplinary issues.

If you were recruiting mentors, you couldn't have picked a much worse group of players to act in that role.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Plan can backfire big time, but it fits Port's situation. Besides, I think you are underrating the value of mentorship.

Rookie wages are probably lower than assistant coaching wages, to keep the football department spend lower...

 

[mistylake]

Have yet to see a mentor make a shit footballer a great footballer. Mental issues maybe, but even then Krakouer comes to mind . Motlop has oodles of talent - how many mentors has he had? Watts - how many coaches - 5 ??? Still got dropped last year.

Tuck into that turkey my teal adversary !

Teal anniversary = 119 years.

 

[Roovolution]

My god the sheer stupidity of Port and Melbourne posters on the Main Board thread about Why Can’t Adelaide Retain Players is something to behold.

 

[subaru]

My god the sheer stupidity of Port and Melbourne posters on the Main Board thread about Why Can’t Adelaide Retain Players is something to behold.

Then don't go near the Ryder threads on the Bay

Somehow an insult to me from a Mod during a shitfight 5 years ago is worse than the same Mod repeatedly pointing out blatant racism in Port supporters and Port posters. Go figure !



Got a Melbourne flog and a Geelong flog white knighting the puffers like there's no tomorrow

NTTAWWT

 

[fabs33]

Well, our disagreements are clear. We won't go much further in the conversation.

A common misconception is that all discussions need to end in an agreement, this isn't the case. A trade of opinions for its own sake is perfectly acceptable. As long as you don’t turn into an arrogant know-it-all crackpot with a penchant for trying to assert intellectual superiority with century old quotes in every second post, we’ll be fine. We already have one of those visiting regularly, and believe me, one is more than enough.

- picking 3 players is NOT "loading up;"

You can pick the words you like but there is no denying that three delisted free agent signings in one year is unusually high when compared to the rest of the league. In total this off season there have only been five of these signings, two of those belong to Port. Add Thomas to the list as your third and you will have picked up as many DFAs as the other seventeen clubs combined.

- the three DFA signings are better bets than any 18-year-old we could pick in the draft;

That’s just conjecture at this point in time.

- Picking Trengove and Thomas is not limited to what they can contribute on the field;

Then recruit them as coaches instead.

- depth is replacement level, which is below "First-XXII" level;

I never refuted this, I merely added that there is a limit to how much below they can go before they cease to have any worth as depth. If I'm wrong on this point then allow me to be the first to put my hand up to join Port's list.

- any draftee wouldn't be in your own definition of depth;

True, but if injury wise you’ve reached the point where you need them, what have you got left to lose by giving them some experience?

- our three FA signings, by taking places in our First-XXII, they have improved our depth; and

Two FA signings, Watts was traded. You gained some players via trade and FA but lost some as well, swings and roundabouts as far as your depth is concerned. Definite improvement on your best 22 though.

- Port couldn't have done anything different that would improve more the team now and for the future.

More conjecture. The question you should be asking yourself is why they were in this position to begin with. If you had more players in their early twenties pushing for a spot in the AFL team you'd have your depth without resorting to multiple DFAs.

What would you suggest that we could have done differently?

I’m not sure what’s to be gained by answering this question, a person doesn’t need to be a qualified expert in a field in order to have a modicum of appreciation for it. That said, I would have considered your club to be better off if it had looked in the lesser leagues for players aged between 19 and 21 in the hopes of finding at least one that might develop into a serviceable AFL player. A player like Hartigan for example, not a star but worth the chance we gave him.

Your issue seems to be on the fact that Port supporters are OK with that.

I don’t have any issue with some of them having that opinion, but I do think it shows a bit too much blind faith in an establishment that has recently under-delivered on the expectations it had in itself and those of its fans.

Anyway, that's enough about that. Enjoy the draft.

 

[Elite Crow]

My god the sheer stupidity of Port and Melbourne posters on the Main Board thread about Why Can’t Adelaide Retain Players is something to behold.

Let me guess, are these the same Port supporters who complained about Crows posting in the Port gone too far thread?

 

[Pea Nut]

At pick 47 Port Adelaide select Matthew Lobbe Mk2.

 

[GremioPower]

Have yet to see a mentor make a shit footballer a great footballer. Mental issues maybe, but even then Krakouer comes to mind . Motlop has oodles of talent - how many mentors has he had? Watts - how many coaches - 5 ??? Still got dropped last year.

Tuck into that turkey my teal adversary !

"Love. That is what makes a Subaru a Subaru."

Never change, Subaru! Please, never change...

 

[kirky]

Lets see how many they retain - each of their pickups are non-SA.

Interesting times.

Our squad I reckon is stronger for 2018 than it was in 2017.

 

[GremioPower]

Who exactly is providing this mentorship? Because Rockliff has proven to be a very poor mentor in the past, Motlop and Watts are headcases on the field, McKenzie was part of Charlie's squad up on the Gold Coast, Trengove needs to focus on his own body and game, and Thomas has had disciplinary issues.

If you were recruiting mentors, you couldn't have picked a much worse group of players to act in that role.

Trengove and Thomas, in different ways. Both are there to be paradigm of hard work and team-first mentality for the young players. Being players, not full-time coaches, allow them to play such a role.

Trengove comes to help Watts coping with the move to a new state, new city, new club; to show to the kids that injuries suck, but are not the end of all; to humble the kids down; to be a player-coach on the field; etc.

Thomas, as North barrackers can confirm, comes to help the kids being comfortable, feeling welcome, having the sense of being part of something bigger than theirs, learning to help each other on and off the field; etc.

 

[subaru]

"Love. That is what makes a Subaru a Subaru."

Never change, Subaru! Please, never change...

I don't plan to
But I've got no idea WTF you're on about

 

[subaru]

Trengove and Thomas, in different ways. Both are there to be paradigm of hard work and team-first mentality for the young players. Being players, not full-time coaches, allow them to play such a role.

Trengove comes to help Watts coping with the move to a new state, new city, new club; to show to the kids that injuries suck, but are not the end of all; to humble the kids down; to be a player-coach on the field; etc.

Thomas, as North barrackers can confirm, comes to help the kids being comfortable, feeling welcome, having the sense of being part of something bigger than theirs, learning to help each other on and off the field; etc.

I just vomited reading that rubbish.

You're not related to OneGreatClub are you ?

 

[subaru]

At pick 47 Port Adelaide select Matthew Lobbe Mk2.while still paying Lobbe version 1.0's salary

You left a bit out !

 

[Cap]

I just vomited reading that rubbish.

You're not related to OneGreatClub are you ?

Perhaps Port are branching out to romance novels and that guy is the editor?

 

[MRB37]

Looks like Roo, Tex and Sloane might be in for a windfall?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...l/news-story/44b9a17d97d5a2e2fac08f925ba2093b

A TURKISH soccer international is prepared to pay more than $6 million for a well-known eastern suburbs pub with a Crows AFL flavour.

Adelaide United’s Ersan Gulum confirmed he is negotiating to buy Norwood’s Alma Tavern.

The popular pub is part-owned by Crows legend Mark Ricciuto since 1999 along with principal owners the Hurley Hotel Group and its directors Peter and Jenny Hurley.

Crows skipper Taylor Walker and teammate Rory Sloane, and Geelong star Patrick Dangerfield, bought into the business in 2014. The group owns some of SA’s finest pubs including the Alma, Arkaba Hotel and Kensington Hotel. “Peter Hurley owns that (the Alma) with the AFL boys and I’m looking into it,’’ Gulum told The Advertiser. “I’m in negotiations for it — it’s a long process and it takes a while.

 

[King_Tredrea]

My issue is those Port supporters that are are not just "OK with that" but are delusional enough to think this strategy was planned ( no way did you expect 5 to walk from your club) and that this untargeted recruitment fiesta guarantees you Top 4 and a flag!

Read your own board

This is simply wonderful. Who “walked” that we weren’t more than happy to move on? I’d love to know.

 

[GremioPower]

A common misconception is that all discussions need to end in an agreement...

Conversations are not supposed to end at all! Conversation comes from "co-" (together) plus "versare" (to turn, to meditate). Conversation is an act of "thinking together," of "turning together to the same direction." Thus, conversations are not supposed to end because their goal is mutual understanding - which is impossible in full. Agreement and disagreement are only steps towards understanding. Conversations end when mutual understanding becomes impossible. I though that might be our case, that's why I made the comment the conversation was at risk.

, this isn't the case. A trade of opinions for its own sake is perfectly acceptable. As long as you don’t turn into an arrogant know-it-all crackpot with a penchant for trying to assert intellectual superiority with century old quotes in every second post, we’ll be fine. We already have one of those visiting regularly, and believe me, one is more than enough.

A "trade of opinions" that is not a conversation is merely simultaneous monologues by "arrogant know-it-all crackpot with a penchant for trying to assert intellectual superiority." Hence, any "trade of opinions for its own sake" is NOT "perfectly acceptable." It is something we must avoid at all costs.

You can pick the words you like but there is no denying that three delisted free agent signings in one year is unusually high when compared to the rest of the league. In total this off season there have only been five of these signings, two of those belong to Port. Add Thomas to the list as your third and you will have picked up as many DFAs as the other seventeen clubs combined.

Different perspectives here. It is certainly an odd approach, but we are still talking about 3 players in a 44-man squad. That's 6.8%.

That’s just conjecture at this point in time.

It is always, but we cannot pick what is usual for one part and throw it away in another. Usually, teams do not hire more than one DFA. True. However, usually, in their first season, draftees do not cause any positive impact in a team "First-XXII." Moreover, picks below #40 have not a huge chance of becoming great AFL players. All our picks this year were below #40. We just tried to use 6.81% of our squad and increase our odds of getting players that could have a positive impact right away - from minimal to right above minimal. Nothing more than that. It is not a big issue at all.

Then recruit them as coaches instead.

We did with Scott Thompson... ;-) Seriously, they will be player-coaches. Two for the price of one!

I never refuted this,

THEN, WHY ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT IT?! :-D

I merely added that there is a limit to how much below they can go before they cease to have any worth as depth. If I'm wrong on this point then allow me to be the first to put my hand up to join Port's list.

The point is that those replacing them would fall into exactly the same category. If both our option and its alternative would present the same issue, there can't be any controversy. Any choice would get us the same result. We are discussing a non-issue.

True, but if injury wise you’ve reached the point where you need them, what have you got left to lose by giving them some experience?

We are providing a different set of experiences. Besides, if they want to get into our team rotation, they will need to EARN it. If they can't work harder and be better than a cripple and an old guy, they doin´t deserve a chance in Power's XXII.

Two FA signings, Watts was traded.

True. I have written correctly somewhere else here.

You gained some players via trade and FA but lost some as well, swings and roundabouts as far as your depth is concerned. Definite improvement on your best 22 though.

It is always a trade-off. As depth is concerned, we got rid of a known quantity and are betting into an unknown quantity. Since our First-XXII has improved (we concur), we thought the bet was worth it. We have rolled the dice, but that is what all clubs have done. There is no other way.

More conjecture. The question you should be asking yourself is why they were in this position to begin with. If you had more players in their early twenties pushing for a spot in the AFL team you'd have your depth without resorting to multiple DFAs.

The key here is that we had not. We must deal with that we have. Out list management worked with what they had and what they could possibly do. One can only measure their work considering the actual circumstances. I can tottaly understand why people struggle with the choices, but, in our context, they make sense.

I’m not sure what’s to be gained by answering this question,

When we criticize, we use a standard for judgement. I just want to know yours, so we can improve our mutual understanding.

... a person doesn’t need to be a qualified expert in a field in order to have a modicum of appreciation for it. That said, I would have considered your club to be better off if it had looked in the lesser leagues for players aged between 19 and 21 in the hopes of finding at least one that might develop into a serviceable AFL player. A player like Hartigan for example, not a star but worth the chance we gave him.

We just brought in FIVE of those. It is more than the TWO that your club have picked, for instance. Still, again, our highest pick was #46.

I don’t have any issue with some of them having that opinion, but I do think it shows a bit too much blind faith in an establishment that has recently under-delivered on the expectations it had in itself and those of its fans.

We are aware of that, but this summer has been somewhat different. And it is not that the club was a total bust past season. We have improved a team that finished the H&A in 5th place, really close to the team that eventually won the Flag. We cut ties with players that we couldn't develop any further. That is not s small change. We have the right to be hopeful.

Anyway, that's enough about that. Enjoy the draft.

Thanks. I hope you have enjoyed too.

 

[Tas]

Thomas, as North barrackers can confirm, comes to help the kids being comfortable, feeling welcome, having the sense of being part of something bigger than theirs, learning to help each other on and off the field; etc.

Thomas doesn't have discipline issues, he was one of our hardest working players and always did everything that was asked of him. He has confidence issues and I don't think our club handled it the best with him. I think if our club had seen the writing on the wall and tweaked the way he played the game he would have avoided a lot of the issues which resulted in his loss of confidence.

I would have loved for LT to stay and play out his career with us, but with where our list is at and his age, it is probably the best thing for him to play for Port. If Hinkley approaches him the right way then I think it will be a good result for Port.