List Mgmt. 2017 Trade/Draft/FA SuperMegaUltra Thread - Post Trade-Period Edition

[Eastern Rangers]

Agree he may be around later. I wouldn't want us using too early picks on him but I like his athleticism. Very agile and quick and a decent build. I think he naturally puts his head over the ball and plays with intensity/works hard and has decent skills. So that to me suggests he has the attributes to potentially develop as an inside mid at afl level. + WA boy bias

In summary elite athleticism coupled with effort is what I like about him. Just think he's been underrated because his production hasn't been too high but I'm hoping he could develop.

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Given he was an early bloomer and fell
away horribly through 2016 and most of 2017, I wouldn’t be too confident on that development.

Comparison is Hayden who was highly touted 15 year old has produced more at Colts level in a shorter period of time. He got a combine invite and broke NN running vertical leap record. But hasn’t produced an outstanding televised game.


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[Eastern Rangers]

Yep brander all the way .He is an eagles fan which is strange for a vic lad . good omen

Take kicking out of the equation and Naughton is the best KPP in the draft IMO and his kicking can be mediated through good decision making.

He’s also a genuine defender who is a solid chance to make the grade as anyone given his body work and effectiveness in the air. At the moment Brander is still floating between positions and might not ever settle effectively in one.


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[Eastern Rangers]

In those games I kept on eye on Christian ameduri as well because I like the way his older brother, Julian, plays at EP but he's a few cms too short for AFL. Christian has that extra height so if he shares his older brothers tenacity he might be worth a shot as a rookie as he performed just as well as Starcevich in the games I saw

Christian is quicker than Starcevich, doesn’t play quite as tall (185cm) but plays gets more of the ball. He plays inside and out and attacks the goal face. If he’s not rookies this year I’d be aggressive in picking up if he translates that Colts form into Ressies/ League.

Starcevich is very much in the same pool. Late/ rookie.

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[mattyc75]

Take kicking out of the equation and Naughton is the best KPP in the draft IMO and his kicking can be mediated through good decision making.

He’s also a genuine defender who is a solid chance to make the grade as anyone given his body work and effectiveness in the air. At the moment Brander is still floating between positions and might not ever settle effectively in one.


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I agree with this.i dont want a kpp who's ok at both ends i want one whos a gun at one end.

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[ROYAL EAGLE]

I've only seen highlights, however Starcevich looks like he'll be a player. Strong, quick and can mark. Would be an asset to our team.

With the way Richmond played this year with smaller very speedy players that provide great pressure.
That is something Starcevich can do and does at colts level, his pressure is first class has super speed,
loves to tackle can take a mark and is so very hard at it.
The question on him has been his production as a mid.
But he has other strings to his bow so i think he can have a good afl career.
I would use pick 32 on him and would be happy.
I also believe wce are very interested in him due to his speed.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

With the way Richmond played this year with smaller very speedy players that provide great pressure.
That is something Starcevich can do and does at colts level, his pressure is first class has super speed,
loves to tackle can take a mark and is so very hard at it.
The question on him has been his production as a mid.
But he has other strings to his bow so i think he can have a good afl career.
I would use pick 32 on him and would be happy.
I also believe wce are very interested in him due to his speed.

looks to take the game on as well. Sure enough we'd train it out of him.
Could his production be due to the fact he had to play PSA football over colts football?

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Christian is quicker than Starcevich, doesn’t play quite as tall (185cm) but plays gets more of the ball. He plays inside and out and attacks the goal face. If he’s not rookies this year I’d be aggressive in picking up if he translates that Colts form into Ressies/ League.

Starcevich is very much in the same pool. Late/ rookie.

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i love Christian as a player but has hardly had any clubs interested in him.
Very outside chance as a rookie.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Whether you think we could potentially develop a player at 26 to be better than Kelly, taking Kelly will help us improve next year. Get him at 26 and hit with quality at 13 and 21. Take the potentially good players after. We need Kelly for an immediate impact from next year onwards, not a player who could potentially do something in 3-5 years. With our second round drafting in the past, at least we know Kelly is a hit.

 

[Abed]

Whether you think we could potentially develop a player at 26 to be better than Kelly, taking Kelly will help us improve next year. Get him at 26 and hit with quality at 13 and 21. Take the potentially good players after. We need Kelly for an immediate impact from next year onwards, not a player who could potentially do something in 3-5 years. With our second round drafting in the past, at least we know Kelly is a hit.

Agree. We need at least a couple of players who can have an immediate impact, as Kennedy and co aren't getting any younger. Ah Chee is one, but we need more.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

With the way Richmond played this year with smaller very speedy players that provide great pressure.
That is something Starcevich can do and does at colts level, his pressure is first class has super speed,
loves to tackle can take a mark and is so very hard at it.
The question on him has been his production as a mid.
But he has other strings to his bow so i think he can have a good afl career.
I would use pick 32 on him and would be happy.
I also believe wce are very interested in him due to his speed.

At 32 would you rather Starcevich or Worpel? Starcevich or Spargo?

 

[avishka5]

At 32 would you rather Starcevich or Worpel? Starcevich or Spargo?

Worpol and sporgo are cooler sounding names.

 

[Eaglespur]

Worpol and sporgo are cooler sounding names.

Inventing names are we

 

[Monocle]

At 32 would you rather Starcevich or Worpel? Starcevich or Spargo?

I would rather both Worpel and Spargo than Starcevich as both have far higher production to their games.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

looks to take the game on as well. Sure enough we'd train it out of him.
Could his production be due to the fact he had to play PSA football over colts football?

Hasn't impacted others. My concern on production is that he plays in fits and starts. Not sure if it is in him mind that he only needs to turn it on occasionally. That is a really hard habit to break. I recall someone saying it was self belief. Difficult to see that as all he has been a top junior for a while and these guys normally have a pretty high level of self confidence and belief?

Again - not unhappy with the concept of taking Starcevich. I expect he will be a long way from best available at 37 so why would we reach? Very happy at getting him with a later pick and OK at pick 69.

 

[Obeanie1]

Whether you think we could potentially develop a player at 26 to be better than Kelly, taking Kelly will help us improve next year. Get him at 26 and hit with quality at 13 and 21. Take the potentially good players after. We need Kelly for an immediate impact from next year onwards, not a player who could potentially do something in 3-5 years. With our second round drafting in the past, at least we know Kelly is a hit.

How much better is Kelly compared to Grigg and Scloithe? Grigg the Magary medalist and Scloithe the Sandover medalist.

Grigg and Scloithe seem to be late picks even rookie picks where people on here seem overly keen to use a very good pick in 26 on Kelly.

26 could land a Bailey, Miers, Bolta, Fogarty, Worpel or another quality kid.

We also have two new mids who should be ready to go round 1 in Ah chee and Venables not to mention Duggan, Nelson, Cole, Partington and Mutimer who all can play inside / outside roles. Add Yeo as another rotation to spend more time in the middle.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

^^^

I think the fact the ilk of Nelson, Partington and Mutimer are in discussion as possible midfield options is reason enough to suggest Kelly is a must have.

Maybe a tad harsh on Parto, as I did want him in the side last year and he did earn it, but he seems a limited player on the whole.

 

[Obeanie1]

^^^

I think the fact the ilk of Nelson, Partington and Mutimer are in discussion as possible midfield options is reason enough to suggest Kelly is a must have.

Maybe a tad harsh on Parto, as I did want him in the side last year and he did earn it, but he seems a limited player on the whole.

Wasn't Partington and Mutimer racking up some pretty decent numbers in the WALF?

And how many years older is Kelly?

Is Kelly that much better than Ah chee? Ah chee cost us a 3rd to 4th round downgrade. We certainly wouldn't trade pick 26 for Ah chee so why use pick 26 on Kelly?

This is the point isn't it? Pick 26 IMO is reaching for Kelly when there are quality kids available around that pick.

 

[Wadsworth]

Wasn't Partington and Mutimer racking up some pretty decent numbers in the WALF?

And how many years older is Kelly?

Is Kelly that much better than Ah chee? Ah chee cost us a 3rd to 4th round downgrade. We certainly wouldn't trade pick 26 for Ah chee so why use pick 26 on Kelly?

This is the point isn't it? Pick 26 IMO is reaching for Kelly when there are quality kids available around that pick.

Good post. Good to see some discussion of the counter-points to the general consensus. I think the view of his value relative to Ah Chee is a great illustration. Most mocks and experts (I know, the term expert doesn't always really mean what it seems to imply, so I use it loosely) seem to rate Kelly somewhere around 3rd to 4th round. But equally, the impact Kelly could have in our midfield could be much greater than any of the kids rated around 25-30, at least in the short term. It only takes one other club to rate him at around 30 for us to need to use 26 to secure him - and we don't get to know that in advance.

Balance it all out and that's the complexity of the problems our recruiters face. I tend to think we target him at 32 or 37 and if we miss out, we move on. I think the consensus is that he'll contribute to our midfield immediately, but I don't think people expect he'll be a star at AFL level. Towards the back end of the second round is probably still seems a slight reach for a player of that calibre. But the 'fit' for us appears very good and potentially worth reaching.

 

[Obeanie1]

2018 Midfield rankings

1. Shuey
2. Gaff
3. Yeo - utility
4. Naitanui
5. Sheed
6. Venables
7. Duggan - mid / back
8. Redden
9. Jetta
10. Hutchings
11. Ah Chee
12. Kelly?
13. Nelson - mid / back
14. Partington - mid / forward
15. Cole - mid/ back
16. Karpany - mid / forward
17. Masten - wing / HFF

 

[new breed]

We need Kelly and can afford to use a second rounder on Kelly with all our picks ....this is as long as Kelly keeps up his great form in the past 18 months or so , would Kelly be such a standout playing at EP rather then SF who in the past few seasons have had a pretty good team .
Worth the risk would help out Shuey and Gaff so we need to give it a go but if Kelly gets comfortable and falls away we have egg on the face but as long as they are free range all okay .

Would Carlton pick Kelly in front of other youngsters at pick 30 they probably will .

 

[Dark Sharks]

2018 Midfield rankings

1. Shuey
2. Gaff
3. Yeo - utility
4. Naitanui
5. Sheed
6. Venables
7. Duggan - mid / back
8. Redden
9. Jetta
10. Hutchings
11. Ah Chee
12. Kelly?
13. Nelson - mid / back
14. Partington - mid / forward
15. Cole - mid/ back
16. Karpany - mid / forward
17. Masten - wing / HFF

Look i don't mind dabbling in the occasional joke at Marsdens expense..

But even in 2018 i'd say he's still ranked higher than Karpany, Cole and Nelson as far as being a midfielder goes.

 

[Obeanie1]

Good post. Good to see some discussion of the counter-points to the general consensus. I think the view of his value relative to Ah Chee is a great illustration. Most mocks and experts (I know, the term expert doesn't always really mean what it seems to imply, so I use it loosely) seem to rate Kelly somewhere around 3rd to 4th round. But equally, the impact Kelly could have in our midfield could be much greater than any of the kids rated around 25-30, at least in the short term. It only takes one other club to rate him at around 30 for us to need to use 26 to secure him - and we don't get to know that in advance.

Balance it all out and that's the complexity of the problems our recruiters face. I tend to think we target him at 32 or 37 and if we miss out, we move on. I think the consensus is that he'll contribute to our midfield immediately, but I don't think people expect he'll be a star at AFL level. Towards the back end of the second round is probably still seems a slight reach for a player of that calibre. But the 'fit' for us appears very good and potentially worth reaching.

Using pick 26 on Kelly is what I expect a recruiter to do if they were fearful of losing their jobs should the team slide next year. Given the 2018 first round pick swap we did is another reason those same recruiters won't want us to slide down the ladder. They will cop a fair bit of criticism.

I agree that 37 I could live with but 26 there may still some real quality players like Garner, Miers, Fogarty and Bailey available. These guys could develop into a top 5 player at the club. Kelly will provide handy depth. If we get him great, if we don't we move on.

 

[Doashuey]

From Zookata's phantom draft he has WCE picking:

13. Constable
21. Oscar Allen
26. Brayden Ainsworth
32. Dylan Moore
37. Andrew Mcpherson

No real surprise with the first 2 picks- fair-good chance of that being correct.

The last 3 are interesting though as they are all names I don't recall seeing mentioned yet on this thread (3000+ posts).

Those in the know- what do you make of these 3 kids and would WCE be looking at them?

 

[Obeanie1]

Look i don't mind dabbling in the occasional joke at Marsdens expense..

But even in 2018 i'd say he's still ranked higher than Karpany, Cole and Nelson as far as being a midfielder goes.

Fair enough but I think his papers are stamped.

But Cole, Nelson and Karpany all have pace, can tackle and play in multiple positions.

 

[Wadsworth]

Look i don't mind dabbling in the occasional joke at Marsdens expense..

But even in 2018 i'd say he's still ranked higher than Karpany, Cole and Nelson as far as being a midfielder goes.

Hey everyone, check out DSs love for Marsden.

"Dark Sharks and Marsden sittin in a tree..."