Player Watch Fischer McAsey - Steps Away from Football, Not Returning

[marty36]

I thought it was me that made the bet and that you accepted. But we are talking semantics . And I'm sorry but I won't wish you luck. Not so much for the $100, but for the club.

WE all want whats best don't we?

Like hoping David Mackay plays a string of blinders, and never gets dropped, but not sure i have read this or not

 

[John Who]

Yes, that happened - but Roo, Goodwin & Macca were regular AA selections. Dangerfield was the only regular AA selection we had in the era which followed.

I love Sloane. I love the way he goes about the game, and the way he bleeds blue, red & gold. But as a player he's nowhere near the class of the players he replaced.

Walker is clearly better than the players he replaced, but that's not saying much. Our nearly non-existent forward line is the reason why we failed to win a flag in the 1999-2008 decade. Walker is not, never has been, and never will be, a regular AA selection.

The reality is that Talia is the only player who comes close to matching the achievements of his predecessor (Rutten).

I don't know if our current crop of youngsters will be better than our team of the last decade, but I have my fingers crossed that they will. If not, then we're in for another decade of mediocrity.

I think we shouldn't get too caught up with how many AA players we have, but rather, how the team functions as a unit. In a Finals series/Grand Final, you want a champion team rather than a team of champions. Some examples:
1. 97 GF - Crows vs North
2. 98 GF - Crows vs Saints

In the above 2 examples, I remember clearly back then we were the heavy underdogs. Kangas and Saints were nearly unbeatable during the minor rounds, and were cruising along towards their respective Grand Finals. Crows on the main day, became a "champion team" and thrashed the "team of champions".

3. 2017 GF - Crows vs Tigers

It was basically the reverse of the first 2 GF's, we were the dominant team during the minor rounds, and arguably had more stars compared with Richmond. Unfortunately, they functioned as a "champion team" on the main day, and we sucked eggs with a "team of champions".

 

[Vader]

I think we shouldn't get too caught up with how many AA players we have, but rather, how the team functions as a unit. In a Finals series/Grand Final, you want a champion team rather than a team of champions. Some examples:
1. 97 GF - Crows vs North
2. 98 GF - Crows vs Saints

In the above 2 examples, I remember clearly back then we were the heavy underdogs. Kangas and Saints were nearly unbeatable during the minor rounds, and were cruising along towards their respective Grand Finals. Crows on the main day, became a "champion team" and thrashed the "team of champions".

3. 2017 GF - Crows vs Tigers

It was basically the reverse of the first 2 GF's, we were the dominant team during the minor rounds, and arguably had more stars compared with Richmond. Unfortunately, they functioned as a "champion team" on the main day, and we sucked eggs with a "team of champions".

While the old adage "a champion team will always beat a team of champions" is still true, it's very rare to have a "champion team" that doesn't actually contain a reasonable number of actual champion players. Our team of the last decade 2010-2019 was largely bereft of such players.

Here is the list of Adelaide's AA players (2010-2019):
2010: none
2011: none
2012: Patrick Dangerfield, Scott Thompson
2013: Patrick Dangerfield
2014: Daniel Talia, Brodie Smith
2015: Patrick Dangerfield, Eddie Betts
2016: Daniel Talia, Eddie Betts, Rory Sloane
2017: Rory Laird, Eddie Betts, Matt Crouch
2018: Rory Laird
2019: none

Dangerfield: 3 (+4 for Geelong)
Betts: 3
Talia: 2
Laird: 2
Sloane: 1
Mrouch: 1
Thompson: 1
Smith: 1

Notes:

• Our defence has been well served, with 3x AA players, and 5x AA selections between them.
• Betts was the only shining star, in an otherwise mediocre forward line (mediocre still being better than what we had from 2000-2009).
• Dangerfield the only multiple AA selection in our midfield.

We just lack out and out champions, particularly in the midfield where the game is won and lost.

 

[John Who]

While the old adage "a champion team will always beat a team of champions" is still true, it's very rare to have a "champion team" that doesn't actually contain a reasonable number of actual champion players. Our team of the last decade 2010-2019 was largely bereft of such players.

Here is the list of Adelaide's AA players (2010-2019):
2010: none
2011: none
2012: Patrick Dangerfield, Scott Thompson
2013: Patrick Dangerfield
2014: Daniel Talia, Brodie Smith
2015: Patrick Dangerfield, Eddie Betts
2016: Daniel Talia, Eddie Betts, Rory Sloane
2017: Rory Laird, Eddie Betts, Matt Crouch
2018: Rory Laird
2019: none

Dangerfield: 3 (+4 for Geelong)
Betts: 3
Talia: 2
Laird: 2
Sloane: 1
Mrouch: 1
Thompson: 1
Smith: 1

Notes:

• Our defence has been well served, with 3x AA players, and 5x AA selections between them.
• Betts was the only shining star, in an otherwise mediocre forward line (mediocre still being better than what we had from 2000-2009).
• Dangerfield the only multiple AA selection in our midfield.

We just lack out and out champions, particularly in the midfield where the game is won and lost.

Of course you need some champion players if you want to succeed as a premiership threat, the main point is that we might not have the star power in the last 15 years or so, but all you need is a functional, well-sync'd team, that competes. Crows in 2017 was nearly there, Melbourne in 2018 was nearly there also.

In 2019 we basically melted into a nearly unrecognisable team (particularly in the latter part of the season), not because we had a change of player personnel, but it was simply our structures crumbled and the players hearts/minds just weren't in it (for whatever reasons).

 

[Scorpus]

While the old adage "a champion team will always beat a team of champions" is still true, it's very rare to have a "champion team" that doesn't actually contain a reasonable number of actual champion players. Our team of the last decade 2010-2019 was largely bereft of such players.

Here is the list of Adelaide's AA players (2010-2019):
2010: none
2011: none
2012: Patrick Dangerfield, Scott Thompson
2013: Patrick Dangerfield
2014: Daniel Talia, Brodie Smith
2015: Patrick Dangerfield, Eddie Betts
2016: Daniel Talia, Eddie Betts, Rory Sloane
2017: Rory Laird, Eddie Betts, Matt Crouch
2018: Rory Laird
2019: none

Dangerfield: 3 (+4 for Geelong)
Betts: 3
Talia: 2
Laird: 2
Sloane: 1
Mrouch: 1
Thompson: 1
Smith: 1

Notes:

• Our defence has been well served, with 3x AA players, and 5x AA selections between them.
• Betts was the only shining star, in an otherwise mediocre forward line (mediocre still being better than what we had from 2000-2009).
• Dangerfield the only multiple AA selection in our midfield.

We just lack out and out champions, particularly in the midfield where the game is won and lost.

So in 10 years we had 14 All Australian awards.

West Coast have had 10 in the last 3 years alone and 22 in the same period, despite winning the wooden spoon once. That's what a champion team looks like.

 

[MarcusP2]

I think we shouldn't get too caught up with how many AA players we have, but rather, how the team functions as a unit. In a Finals series/Grand Final, you want a champion team rather than a team of champions. Some examples:
1. 97 GF - Crows vs North
2. 98 GF - Crows vs Saints

In the above 2 examples, I remember clearly back then we were the heavy underdogs. Kangas and Saints were nearly unbeatable during the minor rounds, and were cruising along towards their respective Grand Finals. Crows on the main day, became a "champion team" and thrashed the "team of champions".

3. 2017 GF - Crows vs Tigers

It was basically the reverse of the first 2 GF's, we were the dominant team during the minor rounds, and arguably had more stars compared with Richmond. Unfortunately, they functioned as a "champion team" on the main day, and we sucked eggs with a "team of champions".

What?

Who on our list in 2017 was comparable to any of Rance, Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt, who had 2x Brownlows, 1x AFL MVP, 2x Coaches Award, 9x All Australians and 2 Coleman Medals between them?

Jenkins/Lynch/etc were playing to the peak of their abilities, but I don't think any of them were rated as high as those players.

 

[Grenville]

1. 97 GF - Crows vs North
2. 98 GF - Crows vs Saints

I was at the MCG, drunk. But could have sworn we played the saint in 97....

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I was at the MCG, drunk. But could have sworn we played the saint in 97....

& North in 98.

 

[John Who]

I was at the MCG, drunk. But could have sworn we played the saint in 97....

No you’re wrong. Or maybe I was the drunk and you’re more sober than you thought you were!

 

[John Who]

What?

Who on our list in 2017 was comparable to any of Rance, Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt, who had 2x Brownlows, 1x AFL MVP, 2x Coaches Award, 9x All Australians and 2 Coleman Medals between them?

Jenkins/Lynch/etc were playing to the peak of their abilities, but I don't think any of them were rated as high as those players.

You’re comparing the Tigers 2019 team vs Crows 2017 team.
Back in 2017, we were clearly the more dominant team with better winning tally and percentages. You listed 4 of their stars, and at the time, we had stars in Talia, Laird, Crouches x2, Sloane, Tex and Betts.

This flows from the original point, we had more champs in the team back in 2017 (team of champions) but were bashed by a bunch of players who wanted it more (champion team).

 

[cleanhands]

You’re comparing the Tigers 2019 team vs Crows 2017 team.
Back in 2017, we were clearly the more dominant team with better winning tally and percentages. You listed 4 of their stars, and at the time, we had stars in Talia, Laird, Crouches x2, Sloane, Tex and Betts.

This flows from the original point, we had more champs in the team back in 2017 (team of champions) but were bashed by a bunch of players who wanted it more (champion team).

Champions rise to big occasions

 

[ad victoriam]

No you’re wrong. Or maybe I was the drunk and you’re more sober than you thought you were!

 

[Golumless]

I think someone disproved this, selwood still got a lot of the ball but we all remember him getting under his skin.

That's half of what tagging is. Tagging is either stopping people from getting the ball or making them ineffective when they get the ball. After all, there are certain players you cannot stop getting the ball by virtue of how they play ( i.e. Matt Crouch, Tom Mitchell, and whoever else you can think off who are very good on the inside). You can curtail their influence despite the amount of ball though and put pressure on their decision making, options available and lesser skills (which tends to be kicking for most players who excel on the inside).

Knight did the second very well in every match up against Selwood. A lot of disposals and Geelong were worse off for it.

 

[John Who]

I was using dry humour from an initial error. I gave him a “like” before I responded to Grenville.

 

[John Who]

Champions rise to big occasions

Champions can have off days too. Kangas in particular from 98 GF loss and made it up in the 99 season.

 

[Scorpus]

That's half of what tagging is. Tagging is either stopping people from getting the ball or making them ineffective when they get the ball. After all, there are certain players you cannot stop getting the ball by virtue of how they play ( i.e. Matt Crouch, Tom Mitchell, and whoever else you can think off who are very good on the inside). You can curtail their influence despite the amount of ball though and put pressure on their decision making, options available and lesser skills (which tends to be kicking for most players who excel on the inside).

Knight did the second very well in every match up against Selwood. A lot of disposals and Geelong were worse off for it.

Wasn't there a time Knight "tagged" Selwood and some people thought Knight did an awesome job but then Selwood ended up in the coaches votes?

 

[Golumless]

Wasn't there a time Knight "tagged" Selwood and some people thought Knight did an awesome job but then Selwood ended up in the coaches votes?

Edit2: Yeah that was the 2018 game, where Selwood got 31 disposals, 9 turnovers, 6 clangers, 400 m gained (which pairs well with the turnovers indicating a lot of rushed disposals), and just a tick above 60% DE (no goals, 4 SI, 3 clearances for the other stat lines)

A good example of a lot of possessions, and not much good coming from it. What was also amazing, and this I'm not crediting Knight for, was that his defensive work was abysmal that game. 0 tackles, 1 1%.

If I had to guess he got those votes because he got a lot of the ball. Everything outside of that screams a s**t game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Wasn't there a time Knight "tagged" Selwood and some people thought Knight did an awesome job but then Selwood ended up in the coaches votes?

Not sure but he is the the coaches pet.

There was a game I was at that Knight niggles Selwood the whole game & he was largely ineffective complaining to the umpires for frees.

 

[cleanhands]

Champions can have off days too. Kangas in particular from 98 GF loss and made it up in the 99 season.

Richmond champions rose above your champions

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Richmond champions rose above your champions

Which club do you follow?

 

[cleanhands]

Which club do you follow?

He named his champions

 

[Vader]

You’re comparing the Tigers 2019 team vs Crows 2017 team.
Back in 2017, we were clearly the more dominant team with better winning tally and percentages. You listed 4 of their stars, and at the time, we had stars in Talia, Laird, Crouches x2, Sloane, Tex and Betts.

This flows from the original point, we had more champs in the team back in 2017 (team of champions) but were bashed by a bunch of players who wanted it more (champion team).

Thank you for proving the point.

Martin & Cotchin > Sloane, Crouch x2
Rance > Talia
Riewoldt >>> Tex
Betts > ???

The only comparison where Adelaide comes out ahead is Eddie Betts, with Richmond not having a star small forward.

Much though we love them, our "stars" are just not that good - they are not champions of the game who are automatic & regular AA selections. If you think the likes of Crouch (x2) & Sloane are in the same league as Martin, then you've got rocks in your head. Martin has them covered by the length of the Flemington Straight.

 

[marty36]

While the old adage "a champion team will always beat a team of champions" is still true, it's very rare to have a "champion team" that doesn't actually contain a reasonable number of actual champion players. Our team of the last decade 2010-2019 was largely bereft of such players.

Here is the list of Adelaide's AA players (2010-2019):
2010: none
2011: none
2012: Patrick Dangerfield, Scott Thompson
2013: Patrick Dangerfield
2014: Daniel Talia, Brodie Smith
2015: Patrick Dangerfield, Eddie Betts
2016: Daniel Talia, Eddie Betts, Rory Sloane
2017: Rory Laird, Eddie Betts, Matt Crouch
2018: Rory Laird
2019: none

Dangerfield: 3 (+4 for Geelong)
Betts: 3
Talia: 2
Laird: 2
Sloane: 1
Mrouch: 1
Thompson: 1
Smith: 1

Notes:

• Our defence has been well served, with 3x AA players, and 5x AA selections between them.
• Betts was the only shining star, in an otherwise mediocre forward line (mediocre still being better than what we had from 2000-2009).
• Dangerfield the only multiple AA selection in our midfield.

We just lack out and out champions, particularly in the midfield where the game is won and lost.

I did like Hawthorne team of champions with buddy Hodge Mitchell burgoyne roughie

And I must say Brisbanes team of champions with Voss Aker black Lappin were quite effective

Then Geelong look good with their team of champions of Ablett battell Selwood Chapman Scarlett Corey Enright Kelly

When we had a team of champs we were pretty good with Roo Macca Hart Smart Rehn Goody Johnson Modra Jarman

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jack is Back]

Richmond champions rose above your champions

And that’s howTrolls are revealed.

 

[FR0GGY]

Not sure but he is the the coaches pet.

There was a game I was at that Knight niggles Selwood the whole game & he was largely ineffective complaining to the umpires for frees.

That’s every game.