2019 Non-Crows AFL Chat Part 2

[Scorpus]

I agree there were probably different reasons, but I'll refute some of these:

1. He was booed because of his on-field actions including diving, sliding, staging and getting off at the Tribunal
Many players do these actions, and aren't booed (Selwood, Kornes, Richardson, Cotchin, etc)
2. He was also booed because the AFL told the public not to boo him. People don't like being told what to do, so the boos increased
The AFL sat on their hands for about 6 weeks hoping this would go away before saying anything - it was a problem before they said anything aboutit
3. He was also booed because he became Australian of the Year, which some people perceived was undeserved
Conversely, Steve Waugh wasn't booed, in fact, quite the opposite in similar circumstances.
4. He was also booed because he identified someone who made racist comments in the crowd, which some people perceived as wrong due to the age of the person, public humiliation and other factors
Yet those same people (I know, generalising) would demand we name and shame kids of a similar age who graffiti
5. He was also booed because he was outspoken on indigenous issues, which some people (often subconscious racists) don't like and felt he was pretentious, annoying, etc.
Correct - and I say to those people, are you booing Dangerfield, Rosie Batty or players such as Jack Steven who speak up about mental health issues which makes some people feel uncomfortable?
6. He was also booed directly because he was indigenous, by racists
Correct - plus the uneducated
7. He was also booed because he was indigenous, by racists, who used the other issues including #1 and #2 as cover to hide their racism and 'get away with it'
Correct - plus those who can't actually say why they 'don't like him' or answer why they don't boo other players 'they don't like'

My comment - I'm not hearing Eddie Macguire being booed in his daily role - now he has said some terrible things on multiple occasions and his apologies carry as much weight as the network enforced apologies of Sam Newman for making degrading comments about {insert multiple options here}

I'd suggest that many people who booed Goodes for "non-racist" reasons but don't boo similar white players either did it under the crowd cover of racist boos, or are themselves racist whether overtly or subconsciously

Not sure anyone should be proud of either

 

[subaru]

And I’ve replied to your post about what “the face of racism” actually means

And the answer is Yes. My post must be above somewhere

And it’s only an “almost healed wound” to those of us who aren’t affected by racism on a daily basis

This isn’t just one little incident that we’ve all forgotten about and surely it’s over by now and can’t we just go back to talking about footy and why is he raising it now ? oh I see he wants money from it by a movie or lawsuit because that must be the only reason

This is his daily life. Affected by systemic racism everyday. He’s dedicated himself to combatting it. It’s not a healed wound to him or the many indigenous people affected by it

He’s not ripping the scab off for money. It’s a wound that hasn’t healed at all. He’s trying to stop it happening again

Apologies
Yes

I find this para interesting :

“But this was the point Goodes was trying to make. That the face of racism is people who don’t look like racists. Who don’t do it deliberately and consciously. Who don’t know they’re doing it.”


Not sure I can agree. I don’t believe he would have called an elderly woman or a middle aged man as “face of racism “.

I believe she has meant “ape” because he was hairy and had no intention of making a racially motivated comment.

In other words - accidental racist !
- but you are an amiable chap and a good poster , and like I said - I got heaps of other reasons to dislike him.



Edit
As for money , we’ll wait and see

 

[Thetrader15]

And I’ve replied to your post about what “the face of racism” actually means

And the answer is Yes. My post must be above somewhere

And it’s only an “almost healed wound” to those of us who aren’t affected by racism on a daily basis

This isn’t just one little incident that we’ve all forgotten about and surely it’s over by now and can’t we just go back to talking about footy and why is he raising it now ? oh I see he wants money from it by a movie or lawsuit because that must be the only reason

This is his daily life. Affected by systemic racism everyday. He’s dedicated himself to combatting it. It’s not a healed wound to him or the many indigenous people affected by it

He’s not ripping the scab off for money. It’s a wound that hasn’t healed at all. He’s trying to stop it happening again

Just because you have stopped looking at the wound, it doesn't mean it's healed

 

[ChilliP]

I hope Stratton cops some serious booing for his actions on the weekend. Dirty pr¡ck.

He probably won't just because he blends in on the footy field with all the other white guys with brown hair. Booing campaigns are generally against people casual fans can identify instantly from a couple of hundred meters away in the stands.

 

[ChilliP]

You can say you booed Adam Goodes for whatever reason and you're probably telling the truth. But once Adam said he perceived it as racially motivated and it was reported as being racially motivated if you did it after that point, you were being racist by booing him.

 

[Tex200]

You can say you booed Adam Goodes for whatever reason and you're probably telling the truth. But once Adam said he perceived it as racially motivated and it was reported as being racially motivated if you did it after that point, you were being racist by booing him.

That’s absolutely true.

What’s interesting is that as late as 2015 he’s quoted as saying he didn’t know if the booing was racist and that he didn’t care. He also pays tribute in that article to the gains made in dealing with racism in the sport.

Given his call out at the MCG was in 2013 it’s fair to say it was unlikely he would be shy about calling the booing out in 2015.

If in that interview he’d said that his perception was that it was racist, and that it hurt him..would it have continued? Would the AFL have stepped in?

 

[Thetrader15]

That’s absolutely true.

What’s interesting is that as late as 2015 he’s quoted as saying he didn’t know if the booing was racist and that he didn’t care. He also pays tribute in that article to the gains made in dealing with racism in the sport.

Given his call out at the MCG was in 2013 it’s fair to say it was unlikely he would be shy about calling the booing out in 2015.

If in that interview he’d said that his perception was that it was racist, and that it hurt him..would it have continued? Would the AFL have stepped in?

"If in that interview he’d said that his perception was that it was racist, and that it hurt him..would it have continued? Would the AFL have stepped in?"

Yes
No

 

[BRL121]

You can say you booed Adam Goodes for whatever reason and you're probably telling the truth. But once Adam said he perceived it as racially motivated and it was reported as being racially motivated if you did it after that point, you were being racist by booing him.

I've stayed out of the unnecessary rehash of this subject until now, but I find this comment completely lacking in logic.

I would say that most of this category of booers would do it much more, and with renewed enthusiasm, after being lectured to, simply because they don't like being lectured to and being called racist. It would develop a life of its own simply as a rebellion against "authority".

 

[Tex200]

"If in that interview he’d said that his perception was that it was racist, and that it hurt him..would it have continued? Would the AFL have stepped in?"

Yes
No

Can you really answer those so categorically?

What basis is there?

 

[Golumless]

I addressed this point before.

I asked “what if it was a 75 yo grandmother “ - “a 35 year old male”

Do they then become the “face of racism”?

I’d dare say not.
But - as I also said - I have plenty of reasons to dislike Goodes and the fact that he has torn a scab off an almost healed wound years later .... well ...... movie deal or lawsuit is next ?

Absolutely they do, providing the act is a product of "accidental" racism, not them simply being dicks.

The face of racism is always the ones that had no idea they did wrong. Not the ones who go out of their way to be campaigners.

 

[ChilliP]

I've stayed out of the unnecessary rehash of this subject until now, but I find this comment completely lacking in logic.

I would say that most of this category of booers would do it much more, and with renewed enthusiasm, after being lectured to, simply because they don't like being lectured to and being called racist. It would develop a life of its own simply as a rebellion against "authority".

If someone says "you're racist if you do x" and knowing this you then do "x", you're being racist. Especially when you need to go out of your way to do "x". What more logic do you need? At that point, arguing grey areas is disingenuous.

 

[hippyhippy]

If someone says "you're racist if you do x" and knowing this you then do "x", you're being racist. Especially when you need to go out of your way to do"x". What more logic do you need. At that point, arguing grey areas is disingenuous.

In this day and age... anything you do can be considered racist misogynist homophobic etc... that's why actual racism and the like has lost most of its meaning... people who get called this just don't care anymore.

I live in Sydney and have been to many Sydney games.... I can guarantee you for a fact the Sydney crowd boos more than any other crowd. Also fact...Sydney fans still don't understand the rules of afl.

 

[BRL121]

If someone says "you're racist if you do x" and knowing this you then do "x", you're being racist. Especially when you need to go out of your way to do"x". What more logic do you need. At that point, arguing grey areas is disingenuous.

That's complete rubbish, IMO. I won't say any more, and won't change this opinion.

 

[Thetrader15]

Can you really answer those so categorically?

What basis is there?

It's all opinion. Pretty confident the booing would have continued, as evidenced by the booing continuing after he did speak out

Maybe the AFL would have come out, I'm being cynical there

 

[subaru]

You can say you booed Adam Goodes for whatever reason and you're probably telling the truth. But once Adam said he perceived it as racially motivated and it was reported as being racially motivated if you did it after that point, you were being racist by booing him.

So you can tell a joke that may have a woman in it but if I perceive it as sexist, it is ?????

No
Sometimes a boo is just a boo

And a joke is just a joke

Anyway
I’ve wasted way too many megabytes on this flog

 

[Brenton Davy]

You can say you booed Adam Goodes for whatever reason and you're probably telling the truth. But once Adam said he perceived it as racially motivated and it was reported as being racially motivated if you did it after that point, you were being racist by booing him.

Devils advocate here.

Is it not inconceivable that the Carlton supporters perceived Goodes' spear throwing actions as racist also?

I personally didn't but what's good for the goose has to be good for the gander. He is hoisting himself from his own petard, or is racism only one way?

Serious question.

 

[subaru]

Absolutely they do, providing the act is a product of "accidental" racism, not them simply being dicks.

The face of racism is always the ones that had no idea they did wrong. Not the ones who go out of their way to be campaigners.

And yet the banana thrower / a whatever aged woman - wasn’t called “the face of racism “

I’m out

Lol
Port

 

[kirky]

Well not unless you're prominent in the Labor/Union movement anyway.

This isn't the political board.

 

[Scorpus]

He probably won't just because he blends in on the footy field with all the other white guys with brown hair. Booing campaigns are generally against people casual fans can identify instantly from a couple of hundred meters away in the stands.

As part of his Tribunal punishment he should be forced to wear hideous rainbow boots so everyone can identify and boo him easily

 

[jo172]

This isn't the political board.

Ah.

 

[the universal]

Devils advocate here.

Is it not inconceivable that the Carlton supporters perceived Goodes' spear throwing actions as racist also?

I personally didn't but what's good for the goose has to be good for the gander. He is hoisting himself from his own petard, or is racism only one way?

Serious question.

They may have perceived it as aggressive, but racist is a bit of a reach.

 

[Brenton Davy]

They may have perceived it as aggressive, but racist is a bit of a reach.

DEpends on your perception. INdigenous person mimicking throwing a spear at a white person and not at another indigenous person?

Again, he perceives various comments as racist where they may not have been meant that way. The Carlton supporters may have perceived his actions as racist, even if they were not meant to be. Same paint, different colour.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Changing subject I'm still stunned at the lack of media focus on Brad Ebert's concussion issues. Has only just got back on the field this weekend and has had multiple checks with a specialist. There should be a major focus on how Port have handled his knocks over the years.

 

[radiojake]

Dependa on your perception? Jesus Christ look at the apologists

Called an ape, a concept steeped in history with black people conflated for centuries as less than human: "the girl didnt mean it she didnt know what she was doing"

Goodes performing a dance that some kids had made earlier that week as a tribute for them and to stick it up the boos "you know the white folk in the cheersquad who've never copped real racism before probably thought the dance was an affront to them and it was racist against them"

We are in a topsy turvy country where a whole host of people are too chicken s**t or too ignorant to do any real self evaluation and are too pissweak to own their own s**t

 

[StickerMan]

Changing subject I'm still stunned at the lack of media focus on Brad Ebert's concussion issues. Has only just got back on the field this weekend and has had multiple checks with a specialist. There should be a major focus on how Port have handled his knocks over the years.

Had they managed his concussion properly in 2016 then Sloane doesn't whack him and get a week off, missing WC game which coat top 4.

Ebert was sent back on after getting clearly concussed earlier in the game.

But alas it does not suit the agenda of some pundits and as such doesn't get the focusbit should.

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