Analysis 2020 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[bungee]

I’d rather have Parker forward a bit more just to give some of the younger ones some minutes especially while JPK is still there. Could be beneficial for the club long term

I'd still like to see both play as I think we need at least three really good mids to avoid becoming predictable. I think Hewett is on the cusp of becoming that third really good mid. When Kennedy was out in 2019 both Parker and Hewett had more disposals than their average, as you'd expect, but for both their disposal efficiency dropped right off, suggesting they were put under greater pressure. Even Florent's efficiency went down for those games JPK was away. Kennedy really does take the midfield heat.

Looking ahead Florent also showed some great signs late in the season averaging just over 25 disposals for his last 4 games. 2020 could be his step up year. Rowbum also did well for an 18yr old and I think he and Stephens could have a real impact by 2022. For me the big question is which of Heeney, Blakey, Dawson and Mills spend more midfield time this year. How Naismith goes with the principle ruck duties (freeing up Sinkers/Reid), how Gould settles into defence, Buddy's availability both as a forward or up the ground and how Stephens and some other young players' develop can all affect that decision.

I think we also need to ask do we want to languish longer at the wrong end of the ladder, which could pay dividends later in terms of draft picks and player development, or are we ready enough to push to get some finals experience into those we have ? Richmond spent years in the wilderness before coming back as a dominant team and luckily for them it paid off, not so for Collingwood, Essendon or Melbourne. Can we afford to do the same ? How would our fans react to years in purgatory with no guarantee of premierships ? Myself, I like us winning premierships but I can only take so much losing.

 

[robbieando]

Both have a grand total of 1 All Australian each. There’s also a lot of mids that get AA’s each year! I call Parker a good solid mid nothing more nothing less

I swear Essendon fans have always been bitter about missing out on Parker but this is just ridiculous

 

[caesar88]

I swear Essendon fans have always been bitter about missing out on Parker but this is just ridiculous

I agree with LP1, but I think what’s ridiculous is you calling another poster’s opinion ridiculous simply because you don’t agree with it.

 

[caesar88]

I'd still like to see both play as I think we need at least three really good mids to avoid becoming predictable. I think Hewett is on the cusp of becoming that third really good mid. When Kennedy was out in 2019 both Parker and Hewett had more disposals than their average, as you'd expect, but for both their disposal efficiency dropped right off, suggesting they were put under greater pressure. Even Florent's efficiency went down for those games JPK was away. Kennedy really does take the midfield heat.

Looking ahead Florent also showed some great signs late in the season averaging just over 25 disposals for his last 4 games. 2020 could be his step up year. Rowbum also did well for an 18yr old and I think he and Stephens could have a real impact by 2022. For me the big question is which of Heeney, Blakey, Dawson and Mills spend more midfield time this year. How Naismith goes with the principle ruck duties (freeing up Sinkers/Reid), how Gould settles into defence, Buddy's availability both as a forward or up the ground and how Stephens and some other young players' develop can all affect that decision.

I think we also need to ask do we want to languish longer at the wrong end of the ladder, which could pay dividends later in terms of draft picks and player development, or are we ready enough to push to get some finals experience into those we have ? Richmond spent years in the wilderness before coming back as a dominant team and luckily for them it paid off, not so for Collingwood, Essendon or Melbourne. Can we afford to do the same ? How would our fans react to years in purgatory with no guarantee of premierships ? Myself, I like us winning premierships but I can only take so much losing.

So wait the three mids who led the midfield that was bottom four in almost every category, are the same three mids who are going to help us become unpredictable? Did you see the ladder? We finished 15th! Evidently the competition has figured our midfield out. That suggests they’re pretty predictable to me.

And again you throw out names like Florent and Rowbottom, yet stand by Horse making the other three the priority over them. And you throw out names like Heeney, Mills and Dawson, yet stand by Horse’s decision to use them in other roles. I enjoy our back and forths bungee but they are cyclic in nature as the players you’re trying to sell as reasons to be excited and trust in Horse are the exact same players some on here simply want to be given greater opportunities.

 

[The Gong]

So wait the three mids who led the midfield that was bottom four in almost every category, are the same three mids who are going to help us become unpredictable? Did you see the ladder? We finished 15th! Evidently the competition has figured our midfield out. That suggests they’re pretty predictable to me.

And again you throw out names like Florent and Rowbottom, yet stand by Horse making the other three the priority over them. And you throw out names like Heeney, Mills and Dawson, yet stand by Horse’s decision to use them in other roles. I enjoy our back and forths bungee but they are cyclic in nature as the players you’re trying to sell as reasons to be excited and trust in Horse are the exact same players some on here simply want to be given greater opportunities.

I'd like to see how we go with a legitimate tap ruckman before we start rewiring everything. Love Sinkers to bits but he wouldn't have won many tap ruck battles in 2019. Then when he went down we were effectively playing without a ruck.

Parker and JPK are still our best inside mids by a big margin so we were predictable in as far as we played them where they are best suited to play. Yes, oppositions could sit on them both to blunt our clearance power but if you pull them out of the middle and throw in the youngsters do you think they're going to magically blow the game open?

Rotate the kids through the middle alongside Parker and JPK and watch them learn and grow. Let Rowbottom crash the packs with them. Stop using Hewett as a tagger and let him hunt the ball. With Naismith having the ability to actually tap the ball to our advantage it could be a completely different ballgame to last year.

 

[Olian]

I agree with LP1, but I think what’s ridiculous is you calling another poster’s opinion ridiculous simply because you don’t agree with it.

True but when they spend their whole time bagging out every aspect of the club you do start to wonder where their allegiances lie.

 

[Deccas]

Like Rowbottom in his second season?

To a degree, but I sure as anything don't want to see the same starting midfield round 1 and beyond. It's time to transition. No issue JPK being in there however lets start with Rowbottom and Hewett as genuine ball winning mids. Forget the tagger it's useless, just get some young kid to learn on that player.

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[LukeParkerno1]

Like Rowbottom in his second season?

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No issue with that personally. He’s an inside mid.

 

[Deccas]

If he can show he is ready and capable of doing a good job in a tagging role i hope he does it. Unfortunately most players need a few seasons to get their body big a strong enough to keep up with and curb the influence of the best players in the competition.

No issue with that personally. He’s an inside mid.

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[Deccas]

I think what this discussion is coming down to is a divergence in opinion on how long it takes a gifted young player to develop, and how they develop.

There are two sides of the game, physical and mental. In tends to take 3 or more seasons before players up physically up to the task. Part of that's just growth, parts training and years in the gym and running and getting run into.

The other side of it is being mentally capable of sticking to their role, belief in thier ability, able to push through exhaustion, communicate and lead.

I'd be pretty interested in seeing the age of the last 10 Brownlow medalists and then get a bit of a run down of Thier first 5 seasons.

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[LukeParkerno1]

If he can show he is ready and capable of doing a good job in a tagging role i hope he does it. Unfortunately most players need a few seasons to get their body big a strong enough to keep up with and curb the influence of the best players in the competition.

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Didn’t take Cripps long and I have Rowbottom in that sort of regard..it would be so us to waste a mid tagging for too long (ie Hewett).

 

[BloodySwan]

Parker is just below elite IMO and at 27 his best years should be the next 2. I wouldn't have him in the list of best midfielders in the league but he's not that far behind - all teams in the AFL would take him in a heartbeat.

 

[The King!]

I think what this discussion is coming down to is a divergence in opinion on how long it takes a gifted young player to develop, and how they develop.

There are two sides of the game, physical and mental. In tends to take 3 or more seasons before players up physically up to the task. Part of that's just growth, parts training and years in the gym and running and getting run into.

The other side of it is being mentally capable of sticking to their role, belief in thier ability, able to push through exhaustion, communicate and lead.

I'd be pretty interested in seeing the age of the last 10 Brownlow medalists and then get a bit of a run down of Thier first 5 seasons.

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Age when won
2019 Nat Fyfe age 27
2018 Tom Mitchell age 25
2017 Dustin Martin 26
2016 Patrick Dangerfield 26
2015 Nat Fyfe 24

Can’t be bothered going further back they all didn’t win it their first year as a star I think we can all agree

Fyfe won his first in his 5th year his 4th year of elite numbers

Dangerfield in his 9th year had 5-6 years of elite numbers

Dusty in his 8th year 5th year of elite numbers

Mitchell in his 6th year and his 4th year of elite nunbers

What did I learn from that

-killed some work time

- great players are ready to go early these guys all had good stats and then great quick

-development is a pile of s**t sometimes let people play if they are good, development should be at lower levels (opinion)

Maybe this all applies to midfielders though


Stars are stars really, I also realise that’s not an in depth analysis

I think as an aside afl clubs are over coached (too many coaches)

 

[The King!]

Parker is just below elite IMO and at 27 his best years should be the next 2. I wouldn't have him in the list of best midfielders in the league but he's not that far behind - all teams in the AFL would take him in a heartbeat.

That’s where I’d rate him

Would make any 22 is currently in a peak,

Would take guys like dusty danger Cripps etc ahead

 

[The Gong]

Parker is just below elite IMO and at 27 his best years should be the next 2. I wouldn't have him in the list of best midfielders in the league but he's not that far behind - all teams in the AFL would take him in a heartbeat.

Yet some punters on here don't rate him and want him and JPK spending more time out of the midfield. They're trying to fix the one bit that isn't broken.

 

[SSwans2011]

Didn’t take Cripps long and I have Rowbottom in that sort of regard..it would be so us to waste a mid tagging for too long (ie Hewett).

I love Hewett, but you're overrating him IMO. There was a number of games this year where he didn't tag, and he didn't show enough for me to believe he'd be on Parker's level. He had a few excellent 15 minute patches, but would drift in and out of games a bit.

 

[The King!]

Yet some punters on here don't rate him and want him and JPK spending more time out of the midfield. They're trying to fix the one bit that isn't broken.

I can see the logic in looking to building our next flag side

But to me that would be reducing the reliance on JPk more than Parker

 

[The King!]

I’m looking forward to Hayward coming back to form after a reset in the off season, think he is one of our best prospects

 

[Millky95]

Probably a year or two ago now, I can't remember when but the AFL did one of those stat comparisons on Parker when they say Disposals "Elite, Above Average, poor" etc and when he was played as a high half forward, his tackles, disposals, goals were all really high and when he was played in the mids they were more around average. I wonder if the Mitchells and the Hanners leaving has had an impact on him in that regard as well

 

[The Gong]

I can see the logic in looking to building our next flag side

But to me that would be reducing the reliance on JPk more than Parker

Of course. JPK won't be part of our next flag but Parker certainly could be. I would like to see Heeney, Mills, Florent, Rowbottom, Hewett and eventually Dylan Stephens be our core midfield rotation along with Parker. JPK is still a top shelf inside mid though and I want him in the trenches showing that next generation how its done.

 

[The Gong]

Probably a year or two ago now, I can't remember when but the AFL did one of those stat comparisons on Parker when they say Disposals "Elite, Above Average, poor" etc and when he was played as a high half forward, his tackles, disposals, goals were all really high and when he was played in the mids they were more around average. I wonder if the Mitchells and the Hanners leaving has had an impact on him in that regard as well

I think that's a given. Consider losing Hanners and Jack when they were in quality form and an up and coming Mitchell and that's a monster hole in the team.

 

[caesar88]

I'd like to see how we go with a legitimate tap ruckman before we start rewiring everything. Love Sinkers to bits but he wouldn't have won many tap ruck battles in 2019. Then when he went down we were effectively playing without a ruck.

Parker and JPK are still our best inside mids by a big margin so we were predictable in as far as we played them where they are best suited to play. Yes, oppositions could sit on them both to blunt our clearance power but if you pull them out of the middle and throw in the youngsters do you think they're going to magically blow the game open?

Rotate the kids through the middle alongside Parker and JPK and watch them learn and grow. Let Rowbottom crash the packs with them. Stop using Hewett as a tagger and let him hunt the ball. With Naismith having the ability to actually tap the ball to our advantage it could be a completely different ballgame to last year.

I can’t agree, because a) I just don’t rate Naismith that highly. He is a legitimate ruckman, but he’s not that amazing. He’s solid at best. Certainly not enough to suddenly make our midfield functional again.

and b) I think as good as JPK & Parker can be they are far and away the two biggest culprits when it comes to shitty, ineffective clearances. I truly believe that’s the biggest flaw in our team, so of course I’m going to criticise the players most responsible for it, regardless of whether they’re champions of our club or not.

 

[Wolftone]

I don’t see Parker as more than a 7 or 8 of 10 mid

Parker is a very good mid. He has proven that. JPK is ageing but still good. But it is about and the set ups. George should be the leader of the second set of mids. This would sellers e him, Parker and JPK. Either that or Parker sets up the second mids. Sometimes players ng your 'best' players together is not the best solution. My solution is to play a range of players through the midfield so as not to make it so predictable. As it is Parker, JPK and Hewett play about 60% midfield.

This has to stop and the set ups will have to change with the change of personnel in the mids. For a start Rowbottom, Florent, Papley, Heeney, Mills, Rampe, Blakey, Ronke, Taylor, Wicks, O'Riordan, Grey can all play a through the mids. On any given day a cadre of them who LD and I'd say will play there. Especially Rowie, Paps, Florent and Heens. We have options now. Many. We can change the mids to have three rotations not two. So we could effectively have all our most experienced mids in different groupings.

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[Wolftone]

I think what this discussion is coming down to is a divergence in opinion on how long it takes a gifted young player to develop, and how they develop.

There are two sides of the game, physical and mental. In tends to take 3 or more seasons before players up physically up to the task. Part of that's just growth, parts training and years in the gym and running and getting run into.

The other side of it is being mentally capable of sticking to their role, belief in thier ability, able to push through exhaustion, communicate and lead.

I'd be pretty interested in seeing the age of the last 10 Brownlow medalists and then get a bit of a run down of Thier first 5 seasons.

On Nokia 7.1 using BigFooty.com mobile app

The physical side depends on their physicality before being drafted d and if they have previously played against men. Gould for instance is physically ready already.

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[Ticky009]

I’m looking forward to Hayward coming back to form after a reset in the off season, think he is one of our best prospects

Agree. Impacted by consecutive injuries, hip issue not fixed until off season. We didn't get to see him at his best last year, his accuracy in front of goal was missed.

With Buddy coming back from an interrupted preseason, Wilbur's form in our early games is going to especially important