List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

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List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...
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Ysaye said:
Under 178cm is what I think recruiters really worry about - to this end:
  • Crowden;
  • Giro;
  • Colyer; and
  • * Matera (Was on the list)
Are the ones that considered very sub-level. This would be compared to Richmond's:
  • Baker;
  • Prestia; and
  • Bolton.
For mine the small difference (going forward) is that Crowden is a good kick, whereas Prestia is an excellent kick and Bolton is a good kick. Giro is just okay and Colyer is below average.

If we added Western to the list he is also more an okay kick but has super speed whilst Sam Durdin is very good at kicking for goals and also speedy enough.
Click to expand...
A big leap makes a difference.

If they can jump they are fine.
 
refresh said:
I don't think selling the farm is the answer. If you miss the hole is too big.

We did it with Carr and Headland and paid the price.

I think Kelly up the road will be the same. .

Makes me wary of the Cripps possibility next season. Like GWS and Cameron, Carlton will match. Time will also tell if the hole created at Geelong if they fail next season creates a list problem going forward.

Can someone cite for me where selling the farm has produced a premiership to date? For me selling the farm is three highish picks.
Click to expand...
We return what Carlton did to the Suns over Martin.

The Cats and the Eagles didn't have the cap ability to do what the Blues did.

We do have cap space.

If Cripps manager goes to the media about his partner mental health, game over.

2021 and 2022 first rounders should be plenty.
 

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eastfreo75 said:
It's only if the Blues are unreasonable.

What Carlton did was to low ball the Suns and then they acted out of bad will.

I am not saying that we do that.

Offer 2021 and 2022 first round picks for the Cripps isn't low balling.
Click to expand...

I say we act as unreasonably as possible with Carltank. Their supporters are campaigners and they did their best to * us with the Henry bid. Payback time.
 
Really hope Cripps signs a new 5 year deal with Carlton in the coming weeks and any nonsense ideas about us trading out multiple first round picks for him are put to bed.
as someone asked here yesterday - is there even ONE example of a sell the farm type trade like that, that has resulted in a flag?
 
let it be known that I, Ghost Albert Pig, cannot for the life of me, understand why, after so many doomed high profile and expensive trades, no small number of us, seem so very desperate, to give all of our prized draft picks to Carlton?

because you know Murphy's Law dictates that while we will get Cripps, Carlton will draft the first simultaneous Brownlow/Coleman medallist since Plugger with one of the picks we give them.
 
Apart from a desperate need for KPF depth I think our list is looking pretty balanced and youthful. One thing we do need is more Elite/A-Graders and Cripps is certainly one of those. Send Fyfe the Knife permanently forward and we might even end up with a handy third tall right there.
 
Piggy Smalls said:
Apart from a desperate need for KPF depth I think our list is looking pretty balanced and youthful. One thing we do need is more Elite/A-Graders and Cripps is certainly one of those. Send Fyfe the Knife permanently forward and we might even end up with a handy third tall right there.
Click to expand...
We could use some more forwards though. And another ruck. Of our proven young players:

Defenders:
Ryan, Cox, Hughes, Logue.
Probably Young as well, but small sample size.
Possibly Duman, Watson and Walker as well

Mids
Brayshaw, Cerra, Tucker, Serong
Probably Acres and Aish as well is you consider then 'young'
Possibly Western

Forwards
nil
Probably Henry and Sturt, but very small sample size
Possibly Schultz (if he can replicate 2020) and Fredericks

Rucks
Darcy
Probably.. nil
Possibly Meek

We hove no young KPFs on the list at all.
 
WilloTree said:
We could use some more forwards though. And another ruck. Of our proven young players:

Defenders:
Ryan, Cox, Hughes, Logue.
Probably Young as well, but small sample size.
Possibly Duman, Watson and Walker as well

Mids
Brayshaw, Cerra, Tucker, Serong
Probably Acres and Aish as well is you consider then 'young'
Possibly Western

Forwards
nil
Probably Henry and Sturt, but very small sample size
Possibly Schultz (if he can replicate 2020) and Fredericks

Rucks
Darcy
Probably.. nil
Possibly Meek

We hove no young KPFs on the list at all.
Click to expand...
Cox can play forward.

Talls are not as valuable as they once were.

Tigers won a flag with one key forward.

Eagles won with Lynch and Hansen.

Hawks imported Hale, Lake, Gibson, Frawley, and McEvoy. Sure they had Franklin and Roughead but they had some busts before them in Dowler, Thorpe, Bailey, and Renouf.

Get the best players in and in the window cherry pick the teams that are rebuilding or have cap issues.

Don't reach for talls, if they fall in our lap then draft them.

Having solid foot soldiers in key positions isn't an issue if you have class elsewhere.
 
gungho said:
Caleb Daniel and Sam Mitchell. Some pretty handy small guys of recent years.
Click to expand...
Chris Mainwaring 177cm
Daniel Kerr 178cm
Ben Cousins 179cm
Would take all (on the proviso that they weren’t all addicts) in a heartbeat.
 
ImperialPurple said:
Chris Mainwaring 177cm
Daniel Kerr 178cm
Ben Cousins 179cm
Would take all (on the proviso that they weren’t all addicts) in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
The competition was on average shorter when those guys played. Particularly Mainwaring. No one would have observed at draft time that Kerr was short for a contemporary midfielder (exactly 20 years ago). Whereas Serong, at the same precise height, most definitely was called short.

The constant binary argument about height is grating. Surely it's obvious: height is not a bar to success, but an equally talented taller player will be more effective = less short players.
 

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eastfreo75 said:
Cox can play forward.

Talls are not as valuable as they once were.

Tigers won a flag with one key forward.

Eagles won with Lynch and Hansen.

Hawks imported Hale, Lake, Gibson, Frawley, and McEvoy. Sure they had Franklin and Roughead but they had some busts before them in Dowler, Thorpe, Bailey, and Renouf.

Get the best players in and in the window cherry pick the teams that are rebuilding or have cap issues.

Don't reach for talls, if they fall in our lap then draft them.

Having solid foot soldiers in key positions isn't an issue if you have class elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Not sure about that. The landscape for 2021 seems to be to have 2 very good KPFs if you want to play even a Prelim.

The top teams next year will be:
Richmond: Reiwoldt and Lynch
Geelong: Hawkins and Cameron
Eagles: Darling and Kennedy (Allen)
Brisbane: Hipwood and Daniher (McStay)
Port: Dixon and Marshall

Bulldogs have known this and are chasing their tail a bit trying to get them: Boyd, Schache and Bruce were all brought in to fill that need, but the reality is that going forward their best bet is Naughton (draft)

Teams likely to struggle
Adelaide: Himmelberg? and whoever the poor 18 year old is they take at Pick 1.
Essendon: Stewart? Wright?
North: Larkey and nobody
Sydney: ??? I suppose you could say Franklin and Reid, but I don't think either will play 22 games again.
Hawks: Patton (if fit), Lewis

There's definitely a pattern.
 
Last edited:
Big NO to trading in Cripps.

Good player but how many times have we sold the farm to bring in a big name player only to end up being burnt? It would cost us 2 1st rounders plus extra.

Develop our own kids. As someone once said: "trade for memberships, draft for premierships"
 
Joose said:
Big NO to trading in Cripps.

Good player but how many times have we sold the farm to bring in a big name player only to end up being burnt? It would cost us 2 1st rounders plus extra.

Develop our own kids. As someone once said: "trade for memberships, draft for premierships"
Click to expand...
What a nonsense saying. When we lost to Hawks in 2013, they had 6 imports who all won a premiership that year.
 
WilloTree said:
What a nonsense saying. When we lost to Hawks in 2013, they had 6 imports who all won a premiership that year.
Click to expand...
True, but which of those imports cost them 2 1st rounders plus extra? Also their track record with imports is good, ours is poor with a few exceptions.

Cripps would be a great addition, but not at the cost Carlton will ask.
 
It's possible that Carlton has the money to throw $1,600,000 at two new players for next season because they know they don't need to find a million dollars for their captain in 2022.

They have also enjoyed front loading deals, so don't be too surprised to see Cripps appear on the unrestricted free agent list due to his 2021 contract value being lower than 9 other players in his side for 2021. It would be very poor of their contract structuring but if they didn't expect to lose him then having less Cripps cash in 2021 makes attracting new talent for $900,000 and $700,000 easier.

Before this season there wasn't a matched restricted free agency bid and this year only saw one as the holding club had already lost a high paid free agent with another five players heading off their books.

Which free agent is leaving Carlton next season prior to Cripps' paperwork being lodged that will be paid nearly a million at the new club?
 
Ysaye said:
Under 178cm is what I think recruiters really worry about - to this end:
  • Crowden;
  • Giro;
  • Colyer; and
  • * Matera (Was on the list)
Are the ones that considered very sub-level. This would be compared to Richmond's:
  • Baker;
  • Prestia; and
  • Bolton.
For mine the small difference (going forward) is that Crowden is a good kick, whereas Prestia is an excellent kick and Bolton is a good kick. Giro is just okay and Colyer is below average.

If we added Western to the list he is also more an okay kick but has super speed whilst Sam Durdin is very good at kicking for goals and also speedy enough.
Click to expand...

I wonder whether Switta will ever play again for us?

It's going to be interesting how we make up the forward line.
Tabs, Lobb and Fyfe is not something that will keep the ball in when it hits the ground.

Schultz and Crowden is a bit one paced.
Henry and Walters? not really pacy either.

Something like the three talls with Henry, Walters and Durdin would work...We also have Sturt to shoe horn in there
 
Lach72 said:
Tabs, Lobb and Fyfe is not something that will keep the ball in when it hits the ground.
Click to expand...
That is a good point, but we are talking about three of the top ten, probably top five, contested marks in the competition.

Speed at their feet and backing them to take a mark could work out.
 
WilloTree said:
Not sure about that. The landscape for 2021 seems to be to have 2 very good KPFs if you want to play even a Prelim.

The top teams next year will be:
Richmond: Reiwoldt and Lynch
Geelong: Hawkins and Cameron
Eagles: Darling and Kennedy (Allen)
Brisbane: Hipwood and Daniher (McStay)
Port: Dixon and Marshall

Bulldogs have known this and are chasing their tail a bit trying to get them: Boyd, Schache and Bruce were all brought in to fill that need, but the reality is that going forward their best bet is Naughton (draft)

Teams likely to struggle
Adelaide: Himmelberg? and whoever the poor 18 year old is they take at Pick 1.
Essendon: Stewart? Wright?
North: Larkey and nobody
Sydney: ??? I suppose you could say Franklin and Reid, but I don't think either will play 22 games again.
Hawks: Patton (if fit), Lewis

There's definitely a pattern.
Click to expand...
Marshall I would not put in the same bracket as the others. Daniher may be in rehab all year, has he even got through a pre-season in the last 3 years?

But yes agree, need 2 solid KPFs to compete. We have Tabs/Lobb with Fyfe causing headaches.
 
Taylor said:
That is a good point, but we are talking about three of the top ten, probably top five, contested marks in the competition.

Speed at their feet and backing them to take a mark could work out.
Click to expand...
It should work if our ball use improves along with the 'spread' in the forward 50. If we bunch up as has been our tendency then we will struggle to keep up with the better teams.
I expect another pre-season training ball movement will do our 'young' side a world of good considering the improvements we saw this year.
 
Lach72 said:
I'm wondering whether we leave the talls completely and just go outside and inside run.

Jack Carroll first pick? Corey Durdin or I saw in the BF Phantom it had Bailey Laurie at 34?
Then Walker and Western?
Dixon as a rookie
Click to expand...

I’d be happy with that haul. The only changes I could see in reality is if Cox or Reid are available at our first, a bid coming before 32, and Neale or Lane being available late.
 
Lach72 said:
I wonder whether Switta will ever play again for us?

It's going to be interesting how we make up the forward line.
Tabs, Lobb and Fyfe is not something that will keep the ball in when it hits the ground.

Schultz and Crowden is a bit one paced.
Henry and Walters? not really pacy either.

Something like the three talls with Henry, Walters and Durdin would work...We also have Sturt to shoe horn in there
Click to expand...


I thought Henry was pacy?
 
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