Training 2021 Pre-Season Training Discussion

[Sanders]

Haha, yeah I think its just that he's been doing more media the last year or so. The sample size has grown.
To me he's not so much "lost it", but always presented as a goofy eccentric, prone to big, often left field calls. Always so loose and overtly honest. Not agreeing with the masses + the bulk of the recruiting community was the basis for his success as a recruiter. That and being right pretty often.

But he never came across as a strong strategic operator - WB 2nd round pick trade, botched player ID draft call first to mind. He a guy that i'd feel much more confident suggesting candidates for draft picks than managing the organisation's key asset.

our recruiting went down hill when Hamish took over.

plus I seem to recall no one was higher on Newchurch than Rendell, and that’s looking a smart call

he’s in a similar position to Buckenara, nuffies point to the fact he disagrees with theirs and other nuffy opinions as evidence he’s lost it

other explanations are available!

look at Luke Pedlar, none of the nuffies had even mentioned his name until it turned out right at the end he was at the sharp tip of multiple clubs thinking

 

[Grenville]

Depending on amount I’d not go more than 3 years on either Laird or Crouch

if we lose them we lose them

I know many will disagree with this, but if they can both get large enough FA deals for worthwhile compo I'd like to see both move on. All-in on the rebuild.

And to answer the inevitable:

"We need more experience"​

"We need bigger/older bodies in the midfield"​

"But look at Carlton, Melbourne, early GWS"​

"You just like shiny new toys"​

Multi-Premiership lists are compiled by building, developing, then retaining a core of similarly aged, high-quality players. Not suggesting sustained success is as simple as just collecting draft picks - plenty of evidence that's not the case (GWS current list will do). BUT is much harder to do without them.

The problems above can be solved - to the extent that we need to in the short term - by the remainder of the list. If we really felt it was detrimental, could even add a cheap, backfill Hodge/Mitchell type for a year.

 

[Mego Red]

I know many will disagree with this, but if they can both get large enough FA deals for worthwhile compo I'd like to see both move on. All-in on the rebuild.

And to answer the inevitable:

"We need more experience"​

"We need bigger/older bodies in the midfield"​

"But look at Carlton, Melbourne, early GWS"​

"You just like shiny new toys"​

Multi-Premiership lists are compiled by building, developing, then retaining a core of similarly aged, high-quality players. Not suggesting sustained success is as simple as just collecting draft picks - plenty of evidence that's not the case (GWS current list will do). BUT is much harder to do without them.

The problems above can be solved - to the extent that we need to in the short term - by the remainder of the list. If we really felt it was detrimental, could even add a cheap, backfill Hodge/Mitchell type for a year.

You will at best get a start of the second round compo pick for Laird or Crouch.

 

[Betts are off]

I know many will disagree with this, but if they can both get large enough FA deals for worthwhile compo I'd like to see both move on. All-in on the rebuild.

And to answer the inevitable:

"We need more experience"​

"We need bigger/older bodies in the midfield"​

"But look at Carlton, Melbourne, early GWS"​

"You just like shiny new toys"​

Multi-Premiership lists are compiled by building, developing, then retaining a core of similarly aged, high-quality players. Not suggesting sustained success is as simple as just collecting draft picks - plenty of evidence that's not the case (GWS current list will do). BUT is much harder to do without them.

The problems above can be solved - to the extent that we need to in the short term - by the remainder of the list. If we really felt it was detrimental, could even add a cheap, backfill Hodge/Mitchell type for a year.

After 3 years of draft based rebuilding I genuinely feel like the true core of the group is now the 1-5 year players, with the older era on the outside looking in. With this in mind I agree with this sentiment. These 2 are our last remaining high return assets that we can part ways with and still maintain the foundation of the rebuild.

I'm certain 1 is leaving, but am getting more and more comfortable with the concept of both

 

[Betts are off]

You will at best get a start of the second round compo pick for Laird or Crouch.

Even if you are right and we are picking top 3-5 like most predict, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having 3 x early 2nd round picks in a strong midfielders draft like 2021 is touted as being.

Gives us a lot of ammunition and flexibility to finish off the draft component of our rebuild exactly how we want too!

 

[Golumless]

I'm not sure that's how the younger midfielders would see it.

On the one hand, you have Matt Crouch taking the best defensive midfielder from the opposition (instead of the young mids), providing protection and passing on knowledge/ experience in-game. Leads to better development of the young mids, and then he is out after (say) four seasons.

On the other hand, you have a gun mid that the Crows will select with Crouch/ compo trade that will compete with the existing young mids for the rest of their career at the Crows.

I also think that keeping Crouch gets us competitive sooner, so we aren't conditioning a young team to losing (like Carlton, Melbourne and Gold Coast) that delays our rise up the ladder. This also makes playing more fun for the kids, helping to retain them (which gets us competitive sooner).

We still have Laird and Sloane to offer that protection, and really Laird/Sloane are more likely to attract those better midfielders. After all, Matt isn't the type of player you put much work into, in part because you can't stop him getting the ball, in part because he doesn't have the skills to genuinely hurt the opposition. A good bull, really.

Mind you, Pedlar and Berry strike me as the type of footballers who'd want to be the main men, quickly. Hately is also closing in on 50 games + 4 preseasons mark as well and should be at the point he's providing a similar output to Crouch. Schoenberg is also going to provide more + is 3 preseasons as well as your engine room come 2022.

That said, pick 1-2 (I reckon we'd be looking at pick 19 for Matt) is certainly a looming spectre to our young midfield group (seeing we've wasted enough top 5 picks on other sectors of the ground), and a reason on it's own why selling Matt now is a very good move to make. Mind you that's a spectre regardless of us keeping Matt or not. The Matt pick is a little more competition but you should be backing yourself in to beat the draftee.

I doubt Matt Crouch makes any genuine difference to our timeline with being competitive or not. None of our senior players offer that. We're really just waiting on a lot of our kids to get into that 30-70 game band before we get more competitive. The conditioning is on our coaching group to prevent, but again, that isn't a change to our situation in the next 2-3 years regardless what we do here. We did a real number to our list in 2016-2019 and we're not done paying for it, yet.

 

[beartoo]

AA as a midfielder I'll have some of what you're smoking.

Hook, line, sinker.

 

[beartoo]

Wonder when the tickets for that Noarlunga game go on sale.... Be a shame to miss it when it's only a stone's throw away from me.

Every year so far I've been able to rock up on the day without bothering to book.

 

[Golumless]

I'm not sure that seeing one of the club's best players offered a "we don't care, see ya" deal is going to make any young player "quietly ecstatic" about their own future.

Anyway, Rendell brain fart, it won't happen.

Who do you think benefits from such a deal?

After all, its us doubling down on the fact that our future lives with our 1-4 year players. Plus there is also more money available to them (which I forgot to mention earlier).

Don't live in a fantasy world with this, the big winners of flicking Crouch lie in our younger players. Football is too ruthless of an industry to be upset when opportunity comes knocking. Nor is it a brain fade. We should be moving on one of Crouch or Laird this offseason.

 

[Golumless]

I know many will disagree with this, but if they can both get large enough FA deals for worthwhile compo I'd like to see both move on. All-in on the rebuild.

And to answer the inevitable:

"We need more experience"​

"We need bigger/older bodies in the midfield"​

"But look at Carlton, Melbourne, early GWS"​

"You just like shiny new toys"​

Multi-Premiership lists are compiled by building, developing, then retaining a core of similarly aged, high-quality players. Not suggesting sustained success is as simple as just collecting draft picks - plenty of evidence that's not the case (GWS current list will do). BUT is much harder to do without them.

The problems above can be solved - to the extent that we need to in the short term - by the remainder of the list. If we really felt it was detrimental, could even add a cheap, backfill Hodge/Mitchell type for a year.

1 definitely. 2 is too much of a cut though. After all, we have pretty much burnt down most of the list already, and we do require a skeleton crew of experienced players to be the guide. We also want to be able to avoid overly recruiting mediocre players to make us competitive.

The lucky thing is both are out of contract at the end of 2021, where the issue of experience is at its worst (serioisly, look at our list, >50% of our players who are below 25 games). Whereas we'd be forced to re contract both if they were out in 2020. There is also nothing stopping us grabbing an old guy to fill out space either as you said.

 

[Betts are off]

Who do you think benefits from such a deal?

After all, its us doubling down on the fact that our future lives with our 1-4 year players. Plus there is also more money available to them (which I forgot to mention earlier).

Don't live in a fantasy world with this, the big winners of flicking Crouch lie in our younger players. Football is too ruthless of an industry to be upset when opportunity comes knocking. Nor is it a brain fade. We should be moving on one of Crouch or Laird this offseason.

I also think that strategically it makes sense that we will attack the FA/trade market in 2022 rather then the draft, so we need to time it so our salary cap allows us to start dangling those big juicy 'come home' carrots at the right time!

 

[Mutineer]

i think the only qualification the great unwashed have for saying Rendell’s lost it is that they don’t agree with him

I don't see any clubs clamouring for services since he lost his scouting position at the Pies?
Surely if he was still rated by AFL clubs someone would throw him a bone?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

For me it's less about Rendell losing his mind and more about whether or not he's deliberately playing the role of a provocateur in the media. Maybe he doesn't see a future in recruitment anymore and wants a career change. These days, all you need to do to have a successful career in footy media is to troll and provoke people enough to generate clicks.

 

[Sanders]

I don't see any clubs clamouring for services since he lost his scouting position at the Pies?
Surely if he was still rated by AFL clubs someone would throw him a bone?

same with all the nuffies. That’s a lot of lottery tickets to never get called

 

[Betts are off]

For me it's less about Rendell losing his mind and more about whether or not he's deliberately playing the role of a provocateur in the media. Maybe he doesn't see a future in recruitment anymore and wants a career change. These days, all you need to do to have a successful career in footy media is to troll and provoke people enough to generate clicks.

The 3 rules of AFL Journalism;
1) Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
2) Pretend source's are way more informative the real source's
3) If all else fails, slam the Adelaide Crows

 

[Grenville]

You will at best get a start of the second round compo pick for Laird or Crouch.

Yeah agreed. And on either or both that'd be enough for me.

 

[Grenville]

I also think that strategically it makes sense that we will attack the FA/trade market in 2022 rather then the draft, so we need to time it so our salary cap allows us to start dangling those big juicy 'come home' carrots at the right time!

Bit too early I think. FA is the icing, and we dont have the cake yet although hopefully gathered up some of the ingredients now. Front load the kids the next few years.

 

[Golumless]

I also think that strategically it makes sense that we will attack the FA/trade market in 2022 rather then the draft, so we need to time it so our salary cap allows us to start dangling those big juicy 'come home' carrots at the right time!

I'd be very tempted to keep our first off limits in 2022, after all, that's also going to be a top 1-4 pick at this stage. Mind you, we certainly should be trying to bring in some more mature (read 3-6 year players) at that point who have shown something on the field.

 

[Apsaalooke]

For me it's less about Rendell losing his mind and more about whether or not he's deliberately playing the role of a provocateur in the media. Maybe he doesn't see a future in recruitment anymore and wants a career change. These days, all you need to do to have a successful career in footy media is to troll and provoke people enough to generate clicks.

“Any kind of publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name right.” P T Barnum

 

[MRB37]

So apparently you'll have to wear a mask when moving around AO for games this year. Can take it off when sitting, but have to put it back on once you leave your seat.

 

[hey shorty]

So apparently you'll have to wear a mask when moving around AO for games this year. Can take it off when sitting, but have to put it back on once you leave your seat.

Ridiculous

 

[betterthanu]

Intersting that Murray is in the AFL team for the trial on saturday over Worrell.

 

[MarcusP2]

Same rule they had for the tennis.

Ridiculous

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hey shorty]

Same rule they had for the tennis.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I can sort of understand why they'd have it for the tennis, the footy is still a month away.

 

[1970crow]

I wonder what the list of coaches that rated Mackay looks like when you see what they are doing now.

Campo, Hart, Mattner no longer in the AFL system. Neil Craig spat out as well. Godden sacked then rehired in a lesser role. Pyke has reappeared this year

Teague had the temerity to stray from the script and publicly shame Mackay by saying he wasn't in the best 22 at that time. Spat out by the AFL industry as well.