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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Bill Mohr said:
Thats about right. Our midfield needs to be able to rove to a losing ruck. I think only the best can do that especially with the 6 man rule. But look at Nic nat and the midfield they have got and they are just on the 8 cusp and have guys like Kelly, shuey, Gaff Yeo etc. We all know how good Ryder is.
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I think it's very possible to be a quality side without an elite ruck. We need to have another one or two midfielders improve. I can definitely see Marshall playing at least around the level of Hickey this season. Sydney has a really solid midfield without being one of the best midfield's in the competition. Mills, Parker and Kennedy (still playing good footy but not the player he once was) is a really good midfield core without being at the very top end. We aren't getting another Ryder so we need to find another way.
 
gringo2011 said:
No you have both, you don't sack half the list because the kids will seamlessly take over. You know what I'm suggesting.
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But I was not even suggesting that. My posts said that we Connelly, Byrnes, Sharman, Bytel, all looking solid AFL players, and 4 young players in the coming draft that is almost like a mini rebuild.

Where did I say get rid of half the list? I have never ever thought that a good strategy at any stage of where our list has been.
 
Great comment.

Kent just does nothing special. He may be quick but rarely see it. Cannot compete in the air does not crumb well...much prefer Battle. Dees have not suffered by him leaving.

Anyway just pointing out that going to the draft is not a bad thing in lieu of drafting players....Hill has left me a bit cold that's all.

Hanna's cost a lot but not in terms of draft picks..so can live with that.

We are on the right track just need to add some top end quality have enough GOF and role players.

Difference was clear against Geelong. Danger is a hardened elite footballer and we could not stop him...Geary would have been handy. His handballs are questionable as is some of his body positioning same with Selwood...but I am looking through one eye.

Geel have in that team 2 Brownlows 2 Coleman's and numerous GF PF appearances within their team...we have in reality none. To make GFs this dynamic needs to change.

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Ducky Tie said:
I think it's very possible to be a quality side without an elite ruck. We need to have another one or two midfielders improve. I can definitely see Marshall playing at least around the level of Hickey this season. Sydney has a really solid midfield without being one of the best midfield's in the competition. Mills, Parker and Kennedy (still playing good footy but not the player he once was) is a really good midfield core without being at the very top end. We aren't getting another Ryder so we need to find another way.
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it is but only if the midfielders work hard. If we get a good ruckman they don't have to. Saves us having to get 5 elite mids
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
it is but only if the midfielders work hard. If we get a good ruckman they don't have to. Saves us having to get 5 elite mids
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Don't need five elite mids to be a quality side, even without an elite tap ruckman. We're probably one or two high end mids away from where we need to be. Lots riding on whether or not Clark can get there.
 
StCicatriz said:
Here's a left field suggestion for ruck depth. Nathan Vardy. 30 years of age. Currently playing wafl. Out of contract.

Gets him one step closer to home before retirement.

Gives us depth for Ryder.
Click to expand...

Vardy has been a very good ruckman who's career has been heavily effected by injury.

I don't mind it as a free hit.

Mabiol Chol should be our #1 ruck target. He's a UFA & has a big upside... very versatile too.
 
Moorabbin Ghost said:
Hes a bog average ruckman, his only strength at stoppage is grabbing ball out of the air and teams are onto that now.
Even the Blues game he dominated hit outs against Silvagni (as he should) but we got touched up at stoppage.
I love him as a forward and second ruck but if we want to win finals then I don’t think Marshall as a number 1 ruck works.
Click to expand...

Roma has shown he can be a very good #1 ruck... saying he can only grab the ball is absolutely disingenuous. A week ago he destroyed one of the most in form ruckman in the league all over the ground.

We got thrashed at stoppage v Carlton because our mids were cooked from the week quarantining in WA.

Stanley may have got hold of him on Saturday but any one on any day can have a day out. Rhys have been very few and far between over a long long time.
 
StCicatriz said:
I think when lethers came in he went down the path of a mini rebuild. They've been churning the list quite well. They've been looking to address the immediate 12-36 months with players like crouch butler Howard Ryder Hill Jones.

Now they have a stronger base of senior talent I have no doubt they're going to be churning what they already have and bringing in more kids to support the likes of steele Gresham Marshall King paton Wilkie byrnes connolly Bytel Clarke coffield.

Make no mistake about it, it's basically a massive purge of trout. It should be obvious to everyone now that he failed massively.
Click to expand...

That's all fine and dandy but it should not be forgotten what Cho & Trout inherited from the previous regime.

Ageing superstars, a few good mid age players and virtually no decent kids. Then made worse by the AFL's plastic franchise fantasy and free agency. Just a terrible time to fall off a cliff & need to rebuild.

It's been a horrible decade which ever way you cut out.
 
Bill Mohr said:
He has got the ability to play anywhere. Seems to have dropped off a bit. At one stage he had more cred than any player in the team. Needs to work on his goalkicking for sure. Ratten does not seem like the "experimental" type coach to me nor his assistants so you might not see Marshall at CHB or CHF unless ratts reads it on here of course, then the penny might drop.
Click to expand...

Where has this 'Roma has dropped off' stuff come from? He absolutely pantsed Tom Hickey last week!

Now we have to find him a new position???

Wow. Just wow.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Roma has shown he can be a very good #1 ruck... saying he can only grab the ball is absolutely disingenuous. A week ago he destroyed one of the most in form ruckman in the league all over the ground.

We got thrashed at stoppage v Carlton because our mids were cooked from the week quarantining in WA.

Stanley may have got hold of him on Saturday but any one on any day can have a day out. Rhys have been very few and far between over a long long time.
Click to expand...
Stanley's last two weeks have been his best for a long time
 

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ScrappyDo said:
This is 2021 POTY worthy.
All players are a mix of good and bad, but with these two the bad is "crushingly bad" and it's become clear this year that it's not gonna change.
It's might take a bit of time to replace their work rate but eliminating the crushingly bad moments will disappear simply by removing them since others just won't possess that level of terrible decision making.
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The time is part of the issue. If we are serious about winning in the biggest day in September then we need to bring players on with some urgency. We need to start being good enough to make finals from 2022 because the brutal truth is we most likely aren't going to hit a home run on our first swing at bat. It's going to take two maybe three shots in finals before we bring home some silverware.

We need King, Clark, Coffield, Battle, Bytel, Byrnes, Connolly, Highmore and Sharman to lift to another level with real URGENCY. Because our current midfield is ageing. Ross, who I quite like and have great respect for from an effort and preparation perspective, should probably be shipped because he is already on the cusp of being too old if our prime window is in three years time. By 2023 Hannebery will be out of the system so we should stop handing out token games and put the pressure back on him to be at his very best, or prepare to fade into the blurred landscape of past AFL players.

We need to continue to bring in young ELITE talent when we can. But otherwise all the missing pieces of the puzzle (backup ruck, key defender, key forward, midfielders) will need to come from players who are ready to win contests at AFL level straight away.
 
BrutThough said:
It is severely weakening the list since we wouldn't get anywhere near the return that they are worth.
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How do you know Clark and Bytel couldn't do the job as good ? We are just achieving nothing by keeping them , they are not taking us to a flag , Sharman was given a chance and lets be honest everyone on here wouldn't have thought he would do as well as he has
 
Bill Mohr said:
Dug a bit deeper and he was in the same class as P.Hunter at Adelaide, both being tutored by Sam Jacobs
Click to expand...
He makes Battle look like Charlie Cameron
 
BrutThough said:
It is severely weakening the list since we wouldn't get anywhere near the return that they are worth.
Click to expand...

IMO the decision is about time horizons:

- Keep all three - means we have to have a serious shot in the next 1-4 years because it gives us yet another weak draft hand, so future lists will be older.

- Lose all three - means a mini-rebuild aiming at a serious shot in 3-8 years, keeping a flow of potential onto the list, so future lists will be younger.

Of course the most likely decision is somewhere in between.

Personally I'd let two out of three go, happy to keep any one of them at the right money, but I wouldn't be surprised if we kept two.
 
CaptainRisky said:
How do you know Clark and Bytel couldn't do the job as good ? We are just achieving nothing by keeping them , they are not taking us to a flag , Sharman was given a chance and lets be honest everyone on here wouldn't have thought he would do as well as he has
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They might be able to and if they can, they will be selected ahead of the Ross and Dunstan types. But the Ross type of players - thats proven good AFL players who have flaws - are the backbone of premiership sides and it is just as important to have some of them on the list as it is to have young talent. Plenty of players much worse than Ross will be playing in prelims this year and some will become premiership players. No finals side is made up of 22 superstars or even 22 good players.

You still need senior players on the list to help the young players and provide depth. If we want to be a finals side, players like Ross and Dunstan might get pushed out but we aren't going to be a competitive side with 18 year old 3rd and 4th round picks being our only depth on the list.

Sharman has had a good few weeks. And could be best 22 if he keeps developing. But you don't sell proven AFL players for crap picks on the hope these players who have shown small glimpses will suddenly all develop immediately and all be good players. It's nice to get carried away about a young player doing a few nice things or playing a promising game, but realistically they aren't all going to come on and be good players because they had a nice moment in a game this year.
 

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bergholt said:
IMO the decision is about time horizons:

- Keep all three - means we have to have a serious shot in the next 1-4 years because it gives us yet another weak draft hand, so future lists will be older.

- Lose all three - means a mini-rebuild aiming at a serious shot in 3-8 years, keeping a flow of potential onto the list, so future lists will be younger.

Of course the most likely decision is somewhere in between.

Personally I'd let two out of three go, happy to keep any one of them at the right money, but I wouldn't be surprised if we kept two.
Click to expand...
I hope we keep Billings (a best 22 player whose better than the mid 2nd round pick we would get) and Ross (good player, wouldn't cost much, if he becomes depth than we are in a great position).

I'd be surprised if Dunstan is still around given the start of the season but I also think he is the most replaceable of the bunch.
 
BrutThough said:
They might be able to and if they can, they will be selected ahead of the Ross and Dunstan types. But the Ross type of players - thats proven good AFL players who have flaws - are the backbone of premiership sides and it is just as important to have some of them on the list as it is to have young talent. Plenty of players much worse than Ross will be playing in prelims this year and some will become premiership players. No finals side is made up of 22 superstars or even 22 good players.

You still need senior players on the list to help the young players and provide depth. If we want to be a finals side, players like Ross and Dunstan might get pushed out but we aren't going to be a competitive side with 18 year old 3rd and 4th round picks being our only depth on the list.

Sharman has had a good few weeks. And could be best 22 if he keeps developing. But you don't sell proven AFL players for crap picks on the hope these players who have shown small glimpses will suddenly all develop immediately and all be good players. It's nice to get carried away about a young player doing a few nice things or playing a promising game, but realistically they aren't all going to come on and be good players because they had a nice moment in a game this year.
Click to expand...
The bright side is we now have a multi fairest and best player (Ross) as a whipping boy and a guy who beat 2 brownlow medalists in Martin and Neale as whipping boy (Dunstan) - just shows how far our list has come.
People have to remember if they are not good enough to be in the 22 they will be dropped - so what is the worry - if Clark , Gresham , Bytel push them out well and good.
Same goes with Billings.
 
BrutThough said:
They might be able to and if they can, they will be selected ahead of the Ross and Dunstan types. But the Ross type of players - thats proven good AFL players who have flaws - are the backbone of premiership sides and it is just as important to have some of them on the list as it is to have young talent. Plenty of players much worse than Ross will be playing in prelims this year and some will become premiership players. No finals side is made up of 22 superstars or even 22 good players.

You still need senior players on the list to help the young players and provide depth. If we want to be a finals side, players like Ross and Dunstan might get pushed out but we aren't going to be a competitive side with 18 year old 3rd and 4th round picks being our only depth on the list.

Sharman has had a good few weeks. And could be best 22 if he keeps developing. But you don't sell proven AFL players for crap picks on the hope these players who have shown small glimpses will suddenly all develop immediately and all be good players. It's nice to get carried away about a young player doing a few nice things or playing a promising game, but realistically they aren't all going to come on and be good players because they had a nice moment in a game this year.
Click to expand...
Im not getting carried away , I'm one on here that doesn't grab the lube every time a kid does something nice , its all nice to say they will get pushed out but history shows there are favs at this club , How the feck Geary was getting games last year is beyond me .
Anyway we are not going to agree on this so lets move on
 
BrutThough said:
I hope we keep Billings (a best 22 player whose better than the mid 2nd round pick we would get) and Ross (good player, wouldn't cost much, if he becomes depth than we are in a great position).

I'd be surprised if Dunstan is still around given the start of the season but I also think he is the most replaceable of the bunch.
Click to expand...
How do you say this as fact , you dont know that ,
 
BrutThough said:
It is severely weakening the list since we wouldn't get anywhere near the return that they are worth.
Click to expand...

Unless we trade for better players. I feel we can cover both Billings and Dunstan already, we are looking to recruit as well as trade, cou;dn't expect raw recruits to cover either.
I feel we keep Ross. he will continue to frustrate, however the reason he get the ball on wings and second kicks from defence is his spread. He can run and I reckon he is second only to Hill as a hard runner.

As for 'severely' weakenig the list, nah it is not like we are swapping Steele for a second.
 
Pick 55 - Brad Miller (Melbourne/Richmond)
Pick 58 - Dane Swan (Collingwood)
Pick 71 - Brian Lake (Western Bulldogs/Hawthorn)
Pick 53 - Adam Selwood (WCE)
Pick 55 - Ryan Crowley (Fremantle)
Pick 64 - Nick Malceski (Sydney)
Pick 53 - Daniel Jackson (Richmond)
Pick 55 - Sam Fisher (St Kilda)
Pick 58 - Ben Hudson (Adel/WB/Brisbane/Coll)
Pick 61 - Michael Rischitelli (Bris/GC)
Pick 73 - Shane Tuck (Richmond)
Pick 53 - Lindsay Thomas (NM)
Pick 55 - Robbie Gray (PA)
Pick 63 - Tyson Goldsack (Collingwood)
Pick 71 - Justin Westhoff (PA)
Pick 79 - Jesse White (Syd/Coll)
Pick 82 - Aaron Edwards (NM/Rich)
Pick 53 - Michael Walters (Fremantle)

Yeah Nah ,,,, No good players are available after the first round
 
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