2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[KermitJagger]

I was quite happy to discuss this with someone who has an opinion and willing to argue his case. Then I read your last sentence. Now I know you are just taking the p!ss.

I'm not taking the piss. It's true. Do you think without having invested an entire off season into talking about a certain group of players it'd be anywhere near this clear cut for you? Barely anyone here is talking about the players available in the teens because we don't have a pick there.

You're the one saying it'd set us back 12 months to strengthen our draft hand over 2 years. If anyone is taking the piss in that situation it might be you, captain hyperbole.

 

[MrPremiership]

But isn't that the exact need we have (albeit we need one more crack after this)?

Everyone always needs elite talent.

But, I think where our list is at, 2 chances at talent is still valuable.

 

[Jake_09]

Very naive to suggest that because Sydney wants to do a deal it means that Hawthorn shouldn’t be interested. If that were the case then no deal would ever get done.
Different clubs are at different stages and have different needs.
I’m torn as to whether I’d do the deal, but slightly lean towards making the trade…only as a live trade once we know who is still on the board.
Heading into next years trade period/draft with 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds is very appealing.

 

[Walshawk]

I'm with TD. Three bites of a pork chop is not as good as one bite of a rib-eye.

It depends on how hungry you are. If you have been in the desert for six years, you go the pork chops.

 

[KermitJagger]

These comparisons are cherry picked.

It's likely to be a Jordan Lewis vs a Andrew McQualter, Cameron Wood, Adam Pattison, Ryan Willis.

Or a Pendles vs a Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas, Darren Pfieffer, Max Bailey, Courtney Dempsey.

Or a Selwood vs a James Sellars, Daniel O'Keeffe, Mitch Brown, Shaun Hampson, Leroy Jetta, Shaun Grigg.

So are these, namely cherry picked from drafts from nearing 2 decades ago. I don't agree with HedgeFunds selections but in particular with recent drafts if you compare a late top 10 pick to a pick in the teens the strike rate is hardly different.

2015 would you rather have Jacob Hopper or 2 of Harry McKay, Wayne Milera, Charlie Curnow, Matthew Kennedy, Eric Hipwood, Daniel Rioli, Harry Himmelberg, Tom Doedee, Jade Gresham or Ryan Burton?

2016 would you rather have Jack Scrimshaw or 2 of Jack Bowes, Oliver Florent, Jy Simpkin, Daniel Venables, Harry Perryman, Jordan Gallucci, Todd Marshall, Jarrod Berry, Sam Powell-Pepper?

2017 Hunter Clark or 2 of Lochie O'Brien, Aiden Bonar, Darcy Fogarty, Jarrod Brander, Matt Ling, Zac Bailey, Ed Richards, Jack Higgins, Brandon Starcevich, Will Powell?

2018 Bailey Smith or 2 of Blakey, Caldwell, Butters, Quaynor, Hately, Clark, McHenry, Sturt, Duursma?

2019 Hayden Young or 2 of Tom Green, Flanders, Pickett, Day, Bergman, Weightman, Cooper Stephens, Brodie Kemp, Mitch Georgiades, SDK?

I'd say in pretty much every case you'd take the two options in the teens and back the recruitment and development team to do their job. The only one where I'd think about it even a little bit is 2018. I really like the idea of getting a group of kids in all at once, to develop together as opposed to betting everything on a single pick.

There are obviously misses in the teens, just like there are anywhere, but I kept them in for the sake of a fair argument and I'd back our talent ID and development to make the most out of it.

 

[Blackhawk42]

It you guys want your minds blown, pick 6 vs picks 13 and 18 in 2019 (for arguments sake) is Fischer McAsey

3

Fischer Mcasey

Age

23

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.8

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

3star

MG

102.3

2star

D

6.8

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

MG

102.3

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

114.8

2star

vs Will Day

12

Will Day

Age

22

Ht

191cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

2star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

17.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

3star

and Mitch Georgiadies.

1 pick after Georgie was Sam De Koning.

There is a massive case for that hypothetical trade with Sydney.

 

[dermott]

Forget the hypothetical players “likely” to be available isn’t it really forgoing the sixth best available player for the fourteenth and seventeenth best available players? If you don’t think there is much difference in talent between six and fourteen you would do it, otherwise you would not.
I doubt if we would take that risk.

 

[Brant]

I saw on reddit someone claiming that Sydney have enquired about a deal for pick 6 (pick 6 for 14, 17, F1).
Given how shallow this draft is I'm not sure I'm against it, but I'm also unsure as to whether or not the 2022 pool is deep enough.
That being said, the temptation and value of going into the 2023 draft pool with two firsts and two seconds does sound really tempting- especially if we can then nab George/Jefferson and Jones in the first round.

I think you'd have to do that, if offered on those terms.

 

[JZedd]

Posters that keep putting DGBs name up for trade is, in my opinion, completely uncalled for.
We all know talls take longer to develop. When his body is ready he'll be a top intercepting KPD.
I hope DGB doesn't follow big footy.

 

[sydney_gws]

Pardon for the intrusion, could you guys see pick swaps with GWS happening?

 

[Brant]

Pardon for the intrusion, could you guys see pick swaps with GWS happening?

Maybe suggest a trade of Picks for posters to comment on?

I.e. what trade did you have in mind?

 

[TheFourPillars]

What picks does gws have?

 

[sydney_gws]

19 , 2023r3 for 24, 2023r2.
I have mates who support hawthorn, want GWS to trade with them as other clubs probably demand to high a premium to trade up.

 

[TheFourPillars]

19 , 2023r3 for 24, 2023r2.
I have mates who support hawthorn, want GWS to trade with them as other clubs probably demand to high a premium to trade up.

We won't do that for 19 pick 40 something plus next year round 2 could be possible

 

[TheFourPillars]

We might do 15 for 24 and bulldogs rd 2 next year

 

[Books]

We might do 15 for 24 and bulldogs rd 2 next year

Yes, that sounds more reasonable but it would be a live trade. Wait to see who is available before you commit.

 

[HedgeFund]

These comparisons are cherry picked.

It's likely to be a Jordan Lewis vs a Andrew McQualter, Cameron Wood, Adam Pattison, Ryan Willis.

Or a Pendles vs a Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas, Darren Pfieffer, Max Bailey, Courtney Dempsey.

Or a Selwood vs a James Sellars, Daniel O'Keeffe, Mitch Brown, Shaun Hampson, Leroy Jetta, Shaun Grigg.

These comparisons are more recent and thus more relevant to the current football environment.

 

[Sturty]

Pardon for the intrusion, could you guys see pick swaps with GWS happening?

 

[Nugett]

Our list lacks top end talent.
DGB was our first top 10 pick since 2006. And it shows.
The odds diminish rapidly, once you're out of the top 5/6, of finding a 200 gamer.

If anything I'm trading our 24 and F2, for something else in this first rd.

there would be no way, that I’d be trading our F2 next year. Reality is it could be a top 20 pick.

 

[Slysh]

I'm still not doing that deal. They could be top 2 next year, so that pick ends up being around 18.

We need top end talent. Not blokes like Clarke and Hotton. We need your Tsatas/ Phillipou types that could be there at 6.

Totally agree we need elite talent, not sure i see any standouts likely to be available at our pick though. Think i would take that.

 

[FB19]

Totally agree we need elite talent, not sure i see any standouts likely to be available at our pick though. Think i would take that.

We need both we need more good talent and some elite talent. If we think at 6(7) it’s not elite we should look at a live swap for a very good price for another club who are at the pointy end where 1 player is the missing piece. Sydney is the likely partner I’m still bullish that we could get 14,17,22,24,36 in this draft whilst maybe even improving our 2023 hand or drop one of those for something else in 2023 and that would be better for us. The more good players we have the quicker we rise the more attractive we become to free agents to fill those elite gaps with proven players.

 

[Yardie]

Totally agree we need elite talent, not sure i see any standouts likely to be available at our pick though. Think i would take that.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there is live pick trading available. We come to our turn and Tsatas is available then we don't trade. If he is not available and we see better value with the later picks versus what is at 6 then we might consider it.

 

[Slysh]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there is live pick trading available. We come to our turn and Tsatas is available then we don't trade. If he is not available and we see better value with the later picks versus what is at 6 then we might consider it.

Think people get more caught up in just the number than the actual players.

Some drafts pick 3 could be ultra valuable and pick 4 might be considered not much better than pick 10. Other years pick 6 may still be seen as having amazing prospects available.

We are desperate for elite talent, but we have also lost a ton of best 22 players recently so getting in a core group of solid young players would still be appealing

 

[Yardie]

Think people get more caught up in just the number than the actual players.

Some drafts pick 3 could be ultra valuable and pick 4 might be considered not much better than pick 10. Other years pick 6 may still be seen as having amazing prospects available.

We are desperate for elite talent, but we have also lost a ton of best 22 players recently so getting in a core group of solid young players would still be appealing

Just went back and had a look at our recent Premiership lists and we have the biggest deficit on the 10-20 range so splitting the pick would make sense if our preferred options weren't available.

2008 Team by Draft

1-10	8
10-20	6
20-30	5
30+	15
Rookie	12

2013 Team by Draft

1-10	6
10-20	6
20-30	4
30+	17
Rookie	9

2014 Team by Draft

1-10	5
10-20	5
20-30	4
30+	19
Rookie	10

2015 Team by Draft

1-10	6
10-20	6
20-30	4
30+	16
Rookie	12

2023 Team by Draft

1-10	4
10-20	2
20-30	5
30+	13
Rookie	7
Mid-Season/SSP	5

 

[burner1]

When’s the next list lodgement deadline? Appears no news on Seamus and are we upgrading guys from rookie list at all? (I assume keeping ND spots is priority to be able to use late picks in trades).