List Mgmt. Hawk's List Management 2023

[HawthornHawk]

Do you need to be re-introduced to our Number 3?

Sam himself has said publicly that we need another mid with some x-factor. Our midfield has improved a lot but I don't think it's anywhere near the finished product as it's often assumed on this forum.

 

[HedgeFund]

Collingwood didn't even have 1x (competent) KPF in this year's GF, did they?

I'll go check, but I can't even name one on their list (McStay = C Grader at best).

Brodie Mihocek once again proving to be the most underrated KPF going around.

They also played Frampton as the 2nd key forward to keep Harris occupied. Whilst he did SFA offensively, it was a left field decision which ultimately worked in their favour. He replaced McStay. They played their best footy in 2023 with Mihocek and McStay as genuine KPFs.

Anyone who thinks clubs don’t need to bother with more than one KPD because some other teams occasionally run out with only one genuine KPF in their front 6 is unlikely to get far in list management.

 

[Yardie]

Sam himself has said publicly that we need another mid with some x-factor. Our midfield has improved a lot but I don't think it's anywhere near the finished product as it's often assumed on this forum.

I believe that mid is recovering from an ACL

 

[Topiary]

Sam himself has said publicly that we need another mid with some x-factor. Our midfield has improved a lot but I don't think it's anywhere near the finished product as it's often assumed on this forum.

Agree, but it is where it is on the list of priority.

 

[burner1]

If Grainger-Barras, Serong & McCabe can all make it as key defenders then we’ll have really good key defensive options down back for the next decade.

Add Blanck. But all big ‘if’s’. None have really shown that much to be confident - Blanck the most advanced (and McCabe just drafted). We’re going to need some luck. Same with up forward.

I wonder if club had banked on a F1 being enough to get O’Sullivan? A key tall by trade or FA is going to be very costly (given McKay precedent). Anyway that’s in the past.

 

[Brant]

Brodie Mihocek once again proving to be the most underrated KPF going around.

They also played Frampton as the 2nd key forward to keep Harris occupied. Whilst he did SFA offensively, it was a left field decision which ultimately worked in their favour. He replaced McStay. They played their best footy in 2023 with Mihocek and McStay as genuine KPFs.

Anyone who thinks clubs don’t need to bother with more than one KPD because some other teams occasionally run out with only one genuine KPF in their front 6 is unlikely to get far in list management.

I'd be pretty surprised if anyone actually thinks that, but then I do see plenty of Best 22s with Sicily at CHB so maybe it's a thing? Perhaps it's a match-up thing with some posters & their B22, but I'm all but sure nobody thinks the list shouldn't have multiple KPD on the off chance an opponent doesn't play 2x KPF.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Sam himself has said publicly that we need another mid with some x-factor. Our midfield has improved a lot but I don't think it's anywhere near the finished product as it's often assumed on this forum.

Sam also said in the same conversation that we needed X factor in the forward line, another kpf and kpd which are all areas we addressed to some degree this off season. We also had a massive crack at getting Harley Reid which would have been a massive boost to our mid stocks but it wasn’t to be.

Rome wasn’t built in a day and given next years too draft picks all look to be mids, plus the prospect of Bailey Smith, there will be plenty of time to keep building here.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Has anyone ever been able to define what "X-Factor" actually is? How do you even quantify it?

I don't believe the midfield we had during our peak era really had any X-factor. That unit was incredibly skilled, but they weren't out there kicking goals out of their backsides (Hodgey in GF's excepted) and winning games off their own boot in that way. They weren't really a high scoring midfield unit, weren't freak athletes, and they didn't really have any break-away pace in the middle either.

Maybe the pace and running power of Smith/Hill on the outside, and the sublime kicking skills of Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne could be considered their X-Factor?

I think having a big, athletic and skilled midfield is more important at this stage and that's exactly what we are developing. We could end up with the best skilled midfield in terms of kicking ability in a few years.

 

[unitedhawk]

Brodie Mihocek once again proving to be the most underrated KPF going around.

They also played Frampton as the 2nd key forward to keep Harris occupied. Whilst he did SFA offensively, it was a left field decision which ultimately worked in their favour. He replaced McStay. They played their best footy in 2023 with Mihocek and McStay as genuine KPFs.

Anyone who thinks clubs don’t need to bother with more than one KPD because some other teams occasionally run out with only one genuine KPF in their front 6 is unlikely to get far in list management.

Perhaps the best argument in favour of having at least two good KPDs is that if your one (and only) KPD is out injured, you'll be up you-know-what creek.

We saw what happened to our forward line when our one (and only) KPF was out in 2023.

 

[Slainte]

Has anyone ever been able to define what "X-Factor" actually is? How do you even quantify it?

I don't believe the midfield we had during our peak era really had any X-factor. That unit was incredibly skilled, but they weren't out there kicking goals out of their backsides (Hodgey in GF's excepted) and winning games off their own boot in that way. They weren't really a high scoring midfield unit, weren't freak athletes, and they didn't really have any break-away pace in the middle either.

Maybe the pace and running power of Smith/Hill on the outside, and the sublime kicking skills of Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne could be considered their X-Factor?

I think having a big, athletic and skilled midfield is more important at this stage and that's exactly what we are developing. We could end up with the best skilled midfield in terms of kicking ability in a few years.

The X actually denotes undefinable. Once you define it, the X ceases to be required. Then best that you can say is that when an X-factor player is at work, things seem to happen that are hard to explain - time stands still, opposition players are in confusion, a gap that wasn't there suddenly opens - that kind of thing.

 

[Tall Tales and True]

I suspect 'x factor' isn't, by definition, consistently on display; Rioli brought 'x factor'
into the midfield ... 10 touches, a Norm Smith, for ex.

Your analysis, J2S, is also closer to the mark - different players came together & brought different attributes, at an elite level, to the cause.

A certain recently injured young fella (as noted, Yardie) may bring some of that 'zing' if he finds his way to us, but, again, it ain't something 'reliable', if you like. That's the whole point.

Sent from my SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[cryptor]

Has anyone ever been able to define what "X-Factor" actually is? How do you even quantify it?

I don't believe the midfield we had during our peak era really had any X-factor. That unit was incredibly skilled, but they weren't out there kicking goals out of their backsides (Hodgey in GF's excepted) and winning games off their own boot in that way. They weren't really a high scoring midfield unit, weren't freak athletes, and they didn't really have any break-away pace in the middle either.

Maybe the pace and running power of Smith/Hill on the outside, and the sublime kicking skills of Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne could be considered their X-Factor?

I think having a big, athletic and skilled midfield is more important at this stage and that's exactly what we are developing. We could end up with the best skilled midfield in terms of kicking ability in a few years.

When we talk about a player having X-factor I think of it as their capacity to operate in a way that is beneficial to the team but outside of the scope of what has been prepared for.

If the game plan and structures are the script of how we want to win then X-factor is how well a player can improvise when structures break down and the team needs to go off script.

 

[TheFourPillars]

When we talk about a player having X-factor I think of it as their capacity to operate in a way that is beneficial to the team but outside of the scope of what has been prepared for.

If the game plan and structures are the script of how we want to win then X-factor is how well a player can improvise when structures break down and the team needs to go off script.

Although i get the gist of what ure saying. If our structures are breaking down often then we are not ready to challenge. Rioli and franklin did the miraculous yes but they knew our strutures. They just had habit of not only beating their opponent but other defensive players as well. Make something out of nothing. Create a goal scoring opportunity where none existed

 

[MasterSamurai]

Burgoyne and Hodge were as close to X factors as we could get as in when they were put in the midfield of big games, they won clearences at will! Strong bullocking straight frwd running at pace from stopagges with deep kicks inside 50 to cause all sorts of problems for defences trying back track to deep in defence to get to the ball/opponent. They both also, were pretty much always hitting the scoreboard everytime they played up the field. Cyril and Roughead were excellent centre square mids as well as they both bought something unique for the opposition to deal with. But, when you have frwd line of:
Franklin
Roughed
Rioli
Bruest
Gunston
Poppy
And a midfield combo of:
Sam
Hodge
Lewis
Burgoyne
Smith
Hill
Sewell

Then you really don't need X factor to get you out of a mess!! What a team and I haven't even mentioned our backline of Gibbo and Lake!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Brodie Mihocek once again proving to be the most underrated KPF going around.

He’s bog average to be honest, but he competes very well.

 

[xmarksthespot]

He’s bog average to be honest, but he competes very well.

I've been watching him a bit this year (wife is a pies fan).

5/10 for talent. 10/10 for effort. Especially his second and third efforts.

I'm sure the Pies love that, but would swap him in a heartbeat for someone with someone with the talent of (say) Gunston or Bruest.

 

[cryptor]

Although i get the gist of what ure saying. If our structures are breaking down often then we are not ready to challenge. Rioli and franklin did the miraculous yes but they knew our strutures. They just had habit of not only beating their opponent but other defensive players as well. Make something out of nothing. Create a goal scoring opportunity where none existed

Structures break down all the time regardless of how good a team is.

What sets good teams apart is the ability to reset or adapt their structures on the fly before the opposition can take advantage on the scoreboard.

All I’m saying is that a player who can turn those moments of chaos into benefits for their team through acts of individual brilliance in my view have X-factor.

But that’s completely independent of the players ability to know the game plan or adhere to structures. Something all players need to do in the modern game.

 

[flinchfree]

Has anyone ever been able to define what "X-Factor" actually is? How do you even quantify it?

......................the sublime kicking skills of Mitchell

I'd go with your own musings.
As 4P said, it's this:

Make something out of nothing. Create a goal scoring opportunity where none existed

Sam did things within the flow of the game by hand and foot that changed what was possible on first viewing and expectation. He created moments and opportunities for others that didn't exist and could not have been expected, quite literally inserting fresh lines into a play most think they have memorized.

Of course Cyril certainly created his own, it was improv at it's most insane, breathtaking and bewildering. Just how?
But Sam, I reckon he's one of the most different space-dimension players I've ever watched. Greg Williams did the same thing.
Simply turns our game from a largely athletic script into a poetic one.

 

[peetoo]

I'd go with your own musings.
As 4P said, it's this:


Sam did things within the flow of the game by hand and foot that changed what was possible on first viewing and expectation. He created moments and opportunities for others that didn't exist and could not have been expected, quite literally inserting fresh lines into a play most think they have memorized.

Of course Cyril certainly created his own, it was improv at it's most insane, breathtaking and bewildering. Just how?
But Sam, I reckon he's one of the most different space-dimension players I've ever watched. Greg Williams did the same thing.
Simply turns our game from a largely athletic script into a poetic one.

Early days but the wiz potentially

 

[Slainte]

He’s bog average to be honest, but he competes very well.

The numbers say otherwise. Not elite but clearly above average.

 

[Elhawko]

The numbers say otherwise. Not elite but clearly above average.

Could be both things at once; average ability but elite effort drags him up to a rating that his talent alone couldn’t do. If Ginnivan and Chol compete at the level Mihocek does we will push hard for finals.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Structures break down all the time regardless of how good a team is.

What sets good teams apart is the ability to reset or adapt their structures on the fly before the opposition can take advantage on the scoreboard.

All I’m saying is that a player who can turn those moments of chaos into benefits for their team through acts of individual brilliance in my view have X-factor.

But that’s completely independent of the players ability to know the game plan or adhere to structures. Something all players need to do in the modern game.

I am not sure Melbourne's structures ever broke down in finals this year mate. Defensively they are the best in the game. Its about getting through that structure. Its not about it breaking down as such. If u are good enough u do. If u have the players, you navigate the maze and make things happen, then ure ready offensively. As an example Geelong's structure held up pretty well in 2022 apart from the individual brilliance of Martin. Geelong could not reciprocate and lost

 

[Slainte]

Could be both things at once; average ability but elite effort drags him up to a rating that his talent alone couldn’t do. If Ginnivan and Chol compete at the level Mihocek does we will push hard for finals.

Nah - bog average is a global assessment. In any case, I dispute the proposition that Mihocek has average ability. He has great hands, reads the play very well and is very mobile. He is a perpetually underrated player.

 

[Dewnior]

I don't believe the midfield we had during our peak era really had any X-factor. That unit was incredibly skilled, but they weren't out there kicking goals out of their backsides (Hodgey in GF's excepted) and winning games off their own boot in that way.

When required, this bloke turned up time after time after time

 

[eldorado]

Has anyone ever been able to define what "X-Factor" actually is? How do you even quantify it?

It's up there with "we need 6 A-graders!"

It means absolutely nothing from an analytical standpoint.