Analysis 2022 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

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SGBeach

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Jul 19, 2019
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Prefer JMac on the wing. Think he is up for another stand out year.
Yep probably his best position. But there is something in the way Horse develops players at half back.
Dawson is a winger and after 2.5 years at half back he finally got pushed up the ground.. and was rated the best winger in the comp.
I remember him dropping back to help the defence when needed and felt very reassured knowing Dawson knew what to do, knew the system and had all the tools necessary to stop the opposition attack and turn it into the Swans attack. When on the wing, Dawsons field positioning was extremely good - maybe because he'd been kicking to that position for the previous 50 games and so knew where that player should be. All part of Horses plan???
If Horse plays JMac at half back, I reckon it will only be for 1 or two years and will be part of a bigger picture plan. I reckon as a winger, and Horse playing you at half back, is bit of a privilege and a compliment.

Cant wait for next season.. We've some bloody good 2nd / 3rd / 4th year players who'll be pushing for selection,, and the excellent speed and kicking ability on the outside means the opposition defence has to do something to combat that and therefore frees up the corridor. Fast clean transition from defensive 50 to forward 50 is one of the best things to watch.
 

Ticky009

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Would be leaving Blakey at hb, gives you that line breaking speed.

obviously reads the game better from the back half which has been seen from many players before

just needs to learn when to jump and impact the contest and stay down and mind the ground ball
He'll be working on his defensive game this off season I'd imagine. New role for him so can expect some errors as he goes through that learning process.
 

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Wolftone

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Now that trade period is over it is basically Hewett and Dawson out and Ladhams in so I figure now is the time to begin discussing what our best 22 for next season will be.

B: Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham
HB: Blakey, McCartin, McInerney
C: Stephens, Heeney, Florent
HF: Gulden, Franklin, Hayward
F: Wicks, McDonald, Papley
Foll: Hickey, Mills, Parker
I/C: Warner, Rowbottom, Kennedy, Ladhams
Emg: Campbell, Bell, Melican, Reid, Amartey, McLean

I really like our halfback line of Blakey and McInerney as both players are skillful and very attacking as well.

We have one big flaw though, and it is a pretty obvious flaw too and that is we are missing a key defender. If we pick up Paddy McCartin this could change, or another key defender at some point in one of the drafts.

We are also rather low on depth, especially in regards to the midfield now that Dawson and Hewett are gone. One injury to our midifeld and Bell is suddenly in the team which is not ideal.

I feel like McDonald needs to play, he needs to be in the team with Buddy, playing as a second key forward and just getting games into him. I think if we move the ball fast enough like we did this year then that will help McDonald in his development a lot.

Also will be very interesting to see how we go with Hickey and Ladhams in the team. Do we play both, can we play both, and can Hickey maintain his 2021 form with another ruckman in the team?

I strongly believe if we do not get many injuries in 2022 we can go far, possibly even push for top 4, but if we get even a few long term injuries we could be in trouble as we really do not have much depth. It is one of the reasons I hope we do not delist guys like Clarke and Taylor as they may not be great but they are okay depth players.

What does everyone else think?
I'd have Melican in there. Rampe on the medium forwards. Melican was really good before getting injured. He got injured against Cats and kept Cameron really quiet until he went off.

We will miss both Dawson and Hewett. But we must motor on. I think Ladhams will be a very good inclusion. Especially after Cox gets hold of him.

I think the young blokes can go to another level this year. Look out for Amartey to really flourish in that forward role. McLean too.

Bud will basically be a half forward next season.

Heeney, Paps, Hayward to kick far more goals.

As for the mids. We need a really good inside mid who is brutish but fast. Sheather will be in that category. Warner is a brute. But I feel we need depth there. Someone who breaks the lines



On JAT-L29 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

cptkirk

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My thoughts after reading all this for those that care:

KEY DEFENDER

  • In a perfect world we’d have a key defender in the mold of our other young guns having played 30 – 50 games and ready to hold down CHB/FB from now on but we don’t and we can at least cover it for now via Rampe/Melican/Fox and Patty if he comes on board – they just have to be biog when we want them to be really (elimination final 2021!) but the defense can only do what the mids do up the field and that is where our bread and butter is still fro a defensive and offensive point of view. We want to win the clearance and get territory to set up behind the ball or if we lose the clearance than make any possession a highly pressured one that we can intercept or get a stoppage off of and then we can regain formation again. That being said there’s not a lot of lockdown key defenders coming through the draft these days as they tend to rather be 3rd man up/intercept types and having 2 lockdown key backs might be becoming obsolete like a traditional center half forward that some teams often leave out for someone more agile, so instead of rafting/.waiting on someone we might be simply be looking to grab a free agent ready-made key back like rucks these days
OVERALL DEFENSE

  • We were still 6th for points allowed in 2021 + 2nd for points for so I’d say for year 1 of a completely new game style pointed heavily to offense that we help up defensively quite well without 2 lockdown key defenders. The question is how much offensively do we want to give up defensively by playing 2 lockdown types. The way we set up our 3 lines of 6 also means there’s not going to be a lot of 1v1’s between key forwards/backs and I know that you’ll all point to Jesse Hogan but the backline had a shocker in that first half from a competing-in-the-air point of view, Melican include but totally at fault on his own as he has shown he’s capable previously (Hawkins). We’ll be even better at this new game style in 2022 and I feel that’s what we’re banking on and if that happens and we still think another big backman is required then we’ll go to the shops and see what’s in stock.
LEVER/MAY

  • Melbourne deliberately defend to win the ball back through Lever/May which we used to do but we don’t want to do that anymore, we want to create turnovers etc closer to our goal meaning we want 6 mids at the contest through the middle of the ground, 6 forwards in the contest in the forward 50 and 6 backs + mids in at the contest in the defensive 50 – not have May standing on his own 2 kicks away from the play and essentially playing 17v18 unless the ball gets to him. We’re all about having all 18 players be in advantageous offensive positions at as often as we can now which is how our 6/6/6 player positioning and lane running works...check my Game Style Thread for more on this - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/sydney-swans-game-style-thread-video-analysis.1283961/...with that set up we can run 2 ways far more effectively so simply having numbers back 99% of the time will be enough to combat most, if not all forward lines regardless of player size but the issue against GWS is that we weren’t winning anything in the middle of the ground in the first half hence we couldn’t generate much run back or forward without having the ball. Blakely can easily fill the Dawson spot it’s just that it won’t be exactly the same, nor should it be, as everyone is different both players clearly have different attributes but the biggest thing we’ll miss is Dawson’s marks from kickouts but that’s simply generating 1v1’s on the wings and Heeney/Hayward can/have also performed that role with great success as well.
TAGGER

  • As I mentioned before, how much offense do we want to give up to gain defensively? We’re all about team defense/roles and if we want someone to tag then Rowy can be a somewhat hard tag but even just sitting beats like Parker/Kennedy on them who will keep them in the contest is usually enough of a tag these days.
TALL PUSHING TO THE WING

  • I’ve mentioned the 6/6/6 thing a few times already but it’s a huge part of what we’re doing at the moment and means we don’t anyone pushing up to the wing as they are already there with numbers. We want to play using defenders running from behind to 1) allow our 6 forwards to track back inside 50 and b) allow our mids to track to where our forwards just were in the middle of the ground, using those defenders for as long as possible so we can get 6 forwards all inside 50, our mids set up along the 50m line or so as short hit ups but also a line of defenders and then our backs behind them, all potentially within 1 kick of the play
WINGS/HALF BACK FLANKS

  • Depending on where the ball is these positions are almost the same anyway except the winger holds more width and like this year we’ll run a heap of guys through there every game
 

Ticky009

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I’d imagine 1-4 year players might be back on Monday 29th November. Normally National draftees are straight off to the club and that is the week prior.
You might find due to border restrictions etc that they will allow players to work in their home state and come back after Xmas.
 
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My thoughts after reading all this for those that care:

KEY DEFENDER

  • In a perfect world we’d have a key defender in the mold of our other young guns having played 30 – 50 games and ready to hold down CHB/FB from now on but we don’t and we can at least cover it for now via Rampe/Melican/Fox and Patty if he comes on board – they just have to be biog when we want them to be really (elimination final 2021!) but the defense can only do what the mids do up the field and that is where our bread and butter is still fro a defensive and offensive point of view. We want to win the clearance and get territory to set up behind the ball or if we lose the clearance than make any possession a highly pressured one that we can intercept or get a stoppage off of and then we can regain formation again. That being said there’s not a lot of lockdown key defenders coming through the draft these days as they tend to rather be 3rd man up/intercept types and having 2 lockdown key backs might be becoming obsolete like a traditional center half forward that some teams often leave out for someone more agile, so instead of rafting/.waiting on someone we might be simply be looking to grab a free agent ready-made key back like rucks these days
OVERALL DEFENSE

  • We were still 6th for points allowed in 2021 + 2nd for points for so I’d say for year 1 of a completely new game style pointed heavily to offense that we help up defensively quite well without 2 lockdown key defenders. The question is how much offensively do we want to give up defensively by playing 2 lockdown types. The way we set up our 3 lines of 6 also means there’s not going to be a lot of 1v1’s between key forwards/backs and I know that you’ll all point to Jesse Hogan but the backline had a shocker in that first half from a competing-in-the-air point of view, Melican include but totally at fault on his own as he has shown he’s capable previously (Hawkins). We’ll be even better at this new game style in 2022 and I feel that’s what we’re banking on and if that happens and we still think another big backman is required then we’ll go to the shops and see what’s in stock.
LEVER/MAY

  • Melbourne deliberately defend to win the ball back through Lever/May which we used to do but we don’t want to do that anymore, we want to create turnovers etc closer to our goal meaning we want 6 mids at the contest through the middle of the ground, 6 forwards in the contest in the forward 50 and 6 backs + mids in at the contest in the defensive 50 – not have May standing on his own 2 kicks away from the play and essentially playing 17v18 unless the ball gets to him. We’re all about having all 18 players be in advantageous offensive positions at as often as we can now which is how our 6/6/6 player positioning and lane running works...check my Game Style Thread for more on this - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/sydney-swans-game-style-thread-video-analysis.1283961/...with that set up we can run 2 ways far more effectively so simply having numbers back 99% of the time will be enough to combat most, if not all forward lines regardless of player size but the issue against GWS is that we weren’t winning anything in the middle of the ground in the first half hence we couldn’t generate much run back or forward without having the ball. Blakely can easily fill the Dawson spot it’s just that it won’t be exactly the same, nor should it be, as everyone is different both players clearly have different attributes but the biggest thing we’ll miss is Dawson’s marks from kickouts but that’s simply generating 1v1’s on the wings and Heeney/Hayward can/have also performed that role with great success as well.
TAGGER

  • As I mentioned before, how much offense do we want to give up to gain defensively? We’re all about team defense/roles and if we want someone to tag then Rowy can be a somewhat hard tag but even just sitting beats like Parker/Kennedy on them who will keep them in the contest is usually enough of a tag these days.
TALL PUSHING TO THE WING

  • I’ve mentioned the 6/6/6 thing a few times already but it’s a huge part of what we’re doing at the moment and means we don’t anyone pushing up to the wing as they are already there with numbers. We want to play using defenders running from behind to 1) allow our 6 forwards to track back inside 50 and b) allow our mids to track to where our forwards just were in the middle of the ground, using those defenders for as long as possible so we can get 6 forwards all inside 50, our mids set up along the 50m line or so as short hit ups but also a line of defenders and then our backs behind them, all potentially within 1 kick of the play
WINGS/HALF BACK FLANKS

  • Depending on where the ball is these positions are almost the same anyway except the winger holds more width and like this year we’ll run a heap of guys through there every game
Great post Cptkirk. Loved your videos as well in the other thread.

I saw people complain this year about our defenders being behind their man, your videos help explain why this is the case. I think they also explain how catastrophically poor we look when the ball gets out the back. We rely on the next line of defence coming back to support from in front, so we need to keep the ball in between our last line and second line.

i always assumed our defenders must be doing what the coaches wanted but now it makes more sense :)

If others have trouble accessing the link (i got a message saying access forbidden, so I had to search it) you can try this one: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/sydney-swans-game-style-thread-video-analysis.1283961/
 

cptkirk

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Great post Cptkirk. Loved your videos as well in the other thread.

I saw people complain this year about our defenders being behind their man, your videos help explain why this is the case. I think they also explain how catastrophically poor we look when the ball gets out the back. We rely on the next line of defence coming back to support from in front, so we need to keep the ball in between our last line and second line.

i always assumed our defenders must be doing what the coaches wanted but now it makes more sense :)

If others have trouble accessing the link (i got a message saying access forbidden, so I had to search it) you can try this one: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/sydney-swans-game-style-thread-video-analysis.1283961/
You're on it!

So another year of training this game style should hopefully cover some of those defensive cracks we saw last season but it's strictly pressure based at the ball and if that's off then the Gold Coast game and elimination final 1st half is what it looks like
 

SGBeach

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Jul 19, 2019
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You're on it!

So another year of training this game style should hopefully cover some of those defensive cracks we saw last season but it's strictly pressure based at the ball and if that's off then the Gold Coast game and elimination final 1st half is what it looks like
Yep, its an all or nothing game plan.
When its on, its fantastic to watch.. when its off, its horrific!
We heard the players a lot last season talk about 'when to go and when to slow'. If the players can master when to, stop momentum / slow the game down / get the play back to us..., then top 4 here we come.
Exciting year ahead
 

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cptkirk

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Yep, its an all or nothing game plan.
When its on, its fantastic to watch.. when its off, its horrific!
We heard the players a lot last season talk about 'when to go and when to slow'. If the players can master when to, stop momentum / slow the game down / get the play back to us..., then top 4 here we come.
Exciting year ahead
It's not all or nothing just heavily favoured towards an offensive an attacking style as there's still a strong defensive plan that goes along with it and yeah we'll iron some crinkles over the pre-season and make it even better on both sides of the ball.

Outsiders,and probably a lot of people here would think we go fast when we don't really, we go precise (attempting to get corridor if possible) most of the time but not a break neck speed and some of our run from the back in past years was way quicker.

We simply want to get a mark (a downfall of losing Dawson), so we can hold and let the 6/6/6 formation start to take shape and then we go again but we'll only hold as long as the first option that we WANT, not have becomes available which I think we did a great job of last year.

You can see it here where we get the mark along the boundary and he literally waits for the initial wave of players to run forward before releasing in board - if he just plays on and goes forward then we don't have 6 forwards in there for high pressure if we lose it nor do we have our midfielder defensive line anywhere near set up.

That being said we'd have liked a better entry then we eventually got in that instance.

 

Kiama Chris

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It's not all or nothing just heavily favoured towards an offensive an attacking style as there's still a strong defensive plan that goes along with it and yeah we'll iron some crinkles over the pre-season and make it even better on both sides of the ball.

Outsiders,and probably a lot of people here would think we go fast when we don't really, we go precise (attempting to get corridor if possible) most of the time but not a break neck speed and some of our run from the back in past years was way quicker.

We simply want to get a mark (a downfall of losing Dawson), so we can hold and let the 6/6/6 formation start to take shape and then we go again but we'll only hold as long as the first option that we WANT, not have becomes available which I think we did a great job of last year.

You can see it here where we get the mark along the boundary and he literally waits for the initial wave of players to run forward before releasing in board - if he just plays on and goes forward then we don't have 6 forwards in there for high pressure if we lose it nor do we have our midfielder defensive line anywhere near set up.

That being said we'd have liked a better entry then we eventually got in that instance.

How much of this do you think comes from Pyke? I smell a bit of Macca here as the "stop, look, pass" was to me a signature move of his. The formation stuff looks pretty new to me. Thanks for bringing it up to us.
 

cptkirk

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The stop/wait/pass thing is a by-product of the 6/6/6 so generally once we exit say defensive 30 and we can really use width as the ground opens up, then ideally we want all forwards 60m from the ball, mids in the middle an then the backs running from behind and being used until about half way if we can which then sets up our defense on the way back/when needed

None if this works if we don't wait for the different formations to shape and you might have noticed a heap of times we get a mark 60m or so out from goal where you'd normally go fast and get it in quickly but we'd wait until our 6 fwds were set up then see what we have available as we can use the 1st line of fwds (sml fwds) as hit ups if they def deep or go deeper to our tall fwds if they def on merit and the we have crumbers available

I don't watch soccer but I read a bit of the tactical stuff they use and I'm pretty sure it's come from that, especially the vertical/horizontal lane formation we use
 

aussietomt

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Early days but assuming we don't draft a miracle I prefer to stick with players we have seen at senior level.
7 Backs
Cunningham Rampe O'Riordan
Blakey McCartin McInerney Lloyd
One off the I/C
7 Forwards
McDonald Ladhams Wicks
Papley Franklin Hayward Gulden
One off the I/C
1 Ruck
Hickey
4 Inside Mids
Kennedy Mills Parker Rowbottom
One off the I/C
3 Outside Mids
Florent Warner/Campbell Heeney
One off the I/C
Which to leave out, assuming all are fit?
Too big a call just yet.
Depth
Defenders
Fox, Melican (could swap in for O'Riordan)
Gould and O'Connor remain unproven and need preseason games. Could use Campbell at a pinch.
Mids
Campbell/Warner (whoever not picked) Stephens, Taylor Clarke
Ruck
Ladhams rucks, Amartey or McLean
Forwards
Amartey, McLean Bell Ronke
Sheather unproven needs preseason games.
Midfield is short on depth. Very likely where we will recruit other than KPD. Would be crazy to delist Clarke or Ronke unless we have to for list spots.
Sinkers is 3rd choice if both Hickey and Ladhams are injured.
Hope I haven't missed anyone!
Did Mcinerney go to Adelaide with Dawson?
 

rustycrate

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Yep probably his best position. But there is something in the way Horse develops players at half back.
Dawson is a winger and after 2.5 years at half back he finally got pushed up the ground.. and was rated the best winger in the comp.
I remember him dropping back to help the defence when needed and felt very reassured knowing Dawson knew what to do, knew the system and had all the tools necessary to stop the opposition attack and turn it into the Swans attack. When on the wing, Dawsons field positioning was extremely good - maybe because he'd been kicking to that position for the previous 50 games and so knew where that player should be. All part of Horses plan???
If Horse plays JMac at half back, I reckon it will only be for 1 or two years and will be part of a bigger picture plan. I reckon as a winger, and Horse playing you at half back, is bit of a privilege and a compliment.

Cant wait for next season.. We've some bloody good 2nd / 3rd / 4th year players who'll be pushing for selection,, and the excellent speed and kicking ability on the outside means the opposition defence has to do something to combat that and therefore frees up the corridor. Fast clean transition from defensive 50 to forward 50 is one of the best things to watch.
I cannot like this post enough. I see the side the same way.
 

Kiama Chris

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When looking forward to the draft I try to start with the cattle we have and where does the pressure to improve need to come from.
I think it would be the universal view that we need another top notch KPD to significantly improve our backline plus one in the pipeline. We missed out in the trade period but the opportunity is there in the draft to get that pipeline filled if we can get our picks right.
Maybe we just have to wait until next year to trade someone in.
We seems to be quite well off for general defenders for the next year or two.
Up forward we have a good situation post Buddy and Hickey with Ladhams, McDonald, McLean and Amartey but we might want to draft another KPF candidate next year to fill the pipeline. Probably not this year.
We seem to be quite well served with small(er) forwards with the existing crop plus Sheather coming on so no need to draft there this year.
The midfield is now a fair bit thinner with the loss of Hewett and Dawson. While we can probably cover them in the best 22 the pipeline is very light on with only Stephens applying any real selection pressure. Sure Bell, Clarke and Taylor can play a role if needed, but they won't improve the team.
So that's where I hope Kinnear and Simon will concentrate. A KPD and the remainder midfielders who will create selection pressure at least in 2023.
I have been a supporter of picking up Paddy McCartin as a KPD but I'm beginning to doubt that the club sees this as the best way forward.
 

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