NO TROLLS 2022 NBA Offseason Thread

[fidstar]

Duncan took less. CP3 and Harden are taking less.

I don't think it's totally unfair to raise an eyebrow at that salary.

You rate those two as good as LeBron, or make the team as much money as LeBron?

 

[Son of Skeletor]

You rate those two as good as LeBron, or make the team as much money as LeBron?

The latter's irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. Not even sure why you'd bring it up.

I'm not going to get into some kind of nebulous ranking system of players, but it's fair to say that all three of them have been top-15 players for many years, and are all in the autumn years of their career.

Is Chris Paul better than LeBron right now? Probably not. But he's making $28 million this season, while LeBron's making $48 million. So the question is, is LeBron twice as good as Chris Paul in 2022?

Don't think anyone's picking on LeBron. IIRC the conversation has on and off been about US sports stars' attitudes towards a team's salary cap. But if you don't think that a guy entering his 20th professional season earning the highest salary in the league is an eyebrow raiser, then you're probably too conditioned to the NBA. It's not an unreasonable question.

 

[Slysh]

Duncan took less. CP3 and Harden are taking less.

I don't think it's totally unfair to raise an eyebrow at that salary.

They are the minority though, also was anyone offering CP3 a full max? He is on 30 mil for the next two years and i think that is a pretty fair deal for him at present.

Duncan is constantly praised for taking less later in his career, he is the outlier.

I think it is great when players take less, i just don't think it should ever be condemned for taking as much as is on offer.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

They are the minority though, also was anyone offering CP3 a full max? He is on 30 mil for the next two years and i think that is a pretty fair deal for him at present.

He opted out of what was, from memory a $43 million salary last season to take a 4/120 deal. So he took a substantial pay cut - about 30%, give or take, or $13 million in real terms - in return for long term 'security'. I believe the 3rd and 4th years on his contract are not fully guaranteed either.

Given the Suns needed money to re-up both Ayton and Bridges, and re-sign Booker, that's not insignificant. It's a win/win.

It's tough to nail what's 'fair' for a player, but in terms of salary this season CP3's the 45th highest earner. Harden will be 30th. LeBron will be 3rd, and is currently in line to move up to the top spot in 2023-24.

Duncan is constantly praised for taking less later in his career, he is the outlier.


I think it is great when players take less, i just don't think it should ever be condemned for taking as much as is on offer.

I don't know if it's a condemnation so much as it is a legitimate question.

Granted, a lot of us are coming at it from a background of following the AFL, where loyal team veterans almost always take unders in their autumn years. But it's still something that should be considered.

Again, the question is not about whether players 'deserve' to be paid X amount of money to play sport. That's a CBA, players vs owners question, or an NCAA conundrum. I'm personally very sympathetic to the players' cause on that particular issue. And I have no issue with star players taking max contracts in their prime years, that's just common sense.

Rather, it's about the opportunity cost of taking every last dollar on the table vis-a-vis your team's salary cap, both right now and in the future, when you're a veteran nearing the end. LeBron's still playing at a ridiculously high level considering he's 20 years in the league now, but then again so is CP3, who has been in the league almost as long.

Regardless of how one feels about it, it certainly shouldn't be considered sacrilege to even broach the subject. It's not just we plebs questioning the wisdom of decision, either.

Plaschke: LeBron James' new contract guarantees one thing — more Lakers mediocrity

LeBron James may be the best player in basketball history, but signing him to an extension pushes the Lakers further away from another championship.

www.latimes.com

 

[Scotland]

lol at picking on LeBron taking the max. He's worth more than that to the Lakers. Why take less than you are worth?

Guess Curry taking the max a couple of years back was anti-winning.
Guess Giannis taking the max a couple of years back was anti-winning.

LeBron is 38 soon.

Curry is 34, signed his 4 year extension taking him through to 37/38. Giannis is 28 soon, his deal runs through until 31/32. Those two players are the last two fnals MVPs. GSW owner will be paying $60m over the cap and $200m in luxury tax to keep their team together this year. I believe he said recently he's not prepared to keep doing that forever. Given there's only a dozen or so players earning $40m next year it's a pretty big advantage compared to teams that can't/won't go over the cap - but with their roster as constructed they could be paying Curry $100m and it's not really going to make a huge difference. Curry, Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Poole - they can re-sign these guys and as long as they are competitive it's not a big deal.

LeBron is being pasted for 3 reasons. One he's LeBron, so everything he does gets the Skip Bayless treatment. Two, he's old. He's the NBA Tom Brady so no one actually knows when he'll stop being an elite player and retire but if you assume he's got 2-3 years left then he's got 2-3 chances left at winning a title. Three, the Lakers are $30m over the cap and the team isn't good. It's more of an issue this year when he is already under contract but going into next year they'll be paying LeBron and AD about $90m with minimal trade assets. Of course a lot changes if the Westbrook/Kyrie swap happens. Kyrie is a flog but with him they have 3 max level players on max level money.

When the Lakers won the title in the bubble their starting 5 was LeBron and AD, KCP, Danny Green and Dwight. They got 20+ minutes a night from Rondo, Kuzma, Caruso, Morris off the bench. They traded the few pieces they did have to get Westbrook because LeBron wanted him. Their best chance of winning a title with LeBron is having cap space available next year.

Duncan took less. CP3 and Harden are taking less.

I don't think it's totally unfair to raise an eyebrow at that salary.

I have wondered why more veteran stars don't do this. Unless you are Golden State (a legacy of the KD signing and cap spike) you are pretty much limited to 3 max players with the current cap rules. Obviously it fell apart spectacularly but Brooklyn had KD $40m, Harden $40m, Irving $33m to go with Harris, Mills and role players. Is 3 guys into their 30s getting $40m a year worth it compared to getting $25m or $30m and having more flexibility?

 

[fidstar]

The latter's irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. Not even sure why you'd bring it up.

I'm not going to get into some kind of nebulous ranking system of players, but it's fair to say that all three of them have been top-15 players for many years, and are all in the autumn years of their career.

Is Chris Paul better than LeBron right now? Probably not. But he's making $28 million this season, while LeBron's making $48 million. So the question is, is LeBron twice as good as Chris Paul in 2022?

Don't think anyone's picking on LeBron. IIRC the conversation has on and off been about US sports stars' attitudes towards a team's salary cap. But if you don't think that a guy entering his 20th professional season earning the highest salary in the league is an eyebrow raiser, then you're probably too conditioned to the NBA. It's not an unreasonable question.

Why would you not consider how much a player is worth to a team in how much you pay him? Like every other career in the world.

 

[LukeHodge15]

Now LBJ signed
Lakers will deal our 27 and 29 firsts

It will be a catastrophic outcome as LBJ falls off a cliff and AD can't stay healthy. Watch those picks be top 5 and Lakers screwed for the next 15 years

 

[burge13]

.Rather, it's about the opportunity cost of taking every last dollar on the table vis-a-vis your team's salary cap, both right now and in the future, when you're a veteran nearing the end. LeBron's still playing at a ridiculously high level considering he's 20 years in the league now, but then again so is CP3, who has been in the league almost as long.

Spot on.

Also good point on us being conditioned with afl players taking less but that does just show Aussies arent so flat out selfish and greedy. "Team first" means something here, doesnt with the yanks lol

 

[Memphis]

Thats fine but dont pretend like you're here to win anymore. You've just shown money (despite having enough for 100000 lifetimes of maximum spending) is more important.

Its still a salary cap sport. Taking the max unnecessarily does hinder winning. Imagine he took 10m a year and won more...

Just baffles me their attitudes. Id prefer 6 rings than money i cant spend

He’s looked at the FA and there is no notable stars entering for the next season that is one of the reasons he has signed on, another reason is knowing how bad the LA roster is that he probably won’t win a ring might as well take them for all they have.

 

[Memphis]

Spot on.

Also good point on us being conditioned with afl players taking less but that does just show Aussies arent so flat out selfish and greedy. "Team first" means something here, doesnt with the yanks lol

You can’t compare the two sports, afl careers are significant shorter than an nba career because of the contact and overall wear on the body, they aren’t comparable.

 

[Slysh]

Now LBJ signed
Lakers will deal our 27 and 29 firsts

It will be a catastrophic outcome as LBJ falls off a cliff and AD can't stay healthy. Watch those picks be top 5 and Lakers screwed for the next 15 years

Two random firsts in 5 and 7 years are hardly going to be make or break for the Lakers, they have been an awfully run franchise for years now... The brand and location alone will stop them from being screwed for 15 years.

Might as well go all in for a chip while you can

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Lebron James to coach Essendon, you heard it here first.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Now LBJ signed
Lakers will deal our 27 and 29 firsts

It will be a catastrophic outcome as LBJ falls off a cliff and AD can't stay healthy. Watch those picks be top 5 and Lakers screwed for the next 15 years

I think you need to off load AD and his contract and try get as many future picks as you can.

He is never going to return to his dominant bubble season form.

 

[Slysh]

I think you need to off load AD and his contract and try get as many future picks as you can.

He is never going to return to his dominant bubble season form.

He is 29 how can we possibly know that?

You don't see the only somewhat valuable asset you have at it's lowest value.

 

[Memphis]

Lebron James to coach Essendon, you heard it here first.

Welcome back.

 

[LukeHodge15]

Two random firsts in 5 and 7 years are hardly going to be make or break for the Lakers, they have been an awfully run franchise for years now... The brand and location alone will stop them from being screwed for 15 years.

Might as well go all in for a chip while you can

For Indy Package or Kyrie

Just

We aren't winning squat with our roster right now. Lucky to make the finals

 

[Slysh]

For Indy Package or Kyrie

Just

We aren't winning squat with our roster right now. Lucky to make the finals

You get a full season out of LBJ and AD with Kyrie and you are 100% in title contention.

Add in some vet ring chasers closer to the deadline as well

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Why would you not consider how much a player is worth to a team in how much you pay him? Like every other career in the world.

Because the discussion is not about how much money LeBron makes the Lakers as a commercial entity.

What you are positing belongs in the "do professional athletes deserve to get paid $50 million for a year's work?" category.

That's a completely separate issue from the discussion at hand, which is "should a team allocate more than 40% of its cap to someone who is nearing 40?"

If we were talking about the Lakers paying Kobe a huge salary post 2013 injury, you might have a point. Those Lakers teams were never going anywhere. The 2022 Lakers are a whole different kettle of fish though.

 

[burge13]

You can’t compare the two sports, afl careers are significant shorter than an nba career because of the contact and overall wear on the body, they aren’t comparable.

So even more reason for nba players to take a paycut to win rather than be selfish campaigners over a longer period?

 

[LukeHodge15]

You get a full season out of LBJ and AD with Kyrie and you are 100% in title contention.

Add in some vet ring chasers closer to the deadline as well

AD has to be in career best form for us to have a chance. And I'm not sure he has the work ethic to get there. Plus he is always injured. Not sure I've seen someone get injured 4 times in every game they play.

 

[hamG]

One thing I will add - Lakers salary cap in 23-24 only had TWO guaranteed players. If Horton-Tucker opts out they would have had $70m to work with minus Lebron's salary.

Lebron could have simply waited until end of next season and see what they could bring in before signing the extension ... maybe still get max, maybe bring in a key piece or 2 quality pieces and take less.

Buutttt I don't think that is in the Rich Paul playbook.

 

[fidstar]

Because the discussion is not about how much money LeBron makes the Lakers as a commercial entity.

What you are positing belongs in the "do professional athletes deserve to get paid $50 million for a year's work?" category.

That's a completely separate issue from the discussion at hand, which is "should a team allocate more than 40% of its cap to someone who is nearing 40?"

If we were talking about the Lakers paying Kobe a huge salary post 2013 injury, you might have a point. Those Lakers teams were never going anywhere. The 2022 Lakers are a whole different kettle of fish though.

The discussion is how money does LeBron deserve to earn. Obviously relevant.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

The discussion is how money does LeBron deserve to earn. Obviously relevant.

Nope. Completely different discussion.

How much money LeBron makes for his team commercially has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. I can't put it any more succinctly than that.

 

[peternorth]

Loving the robust discusion.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Loving the robust discusion.

Peter North loved robust something, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't discussion.