Delisted #47: Henry Crauford - Not offered a contract for 2021 (confirmed)

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BrunoV

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Would be a bitter pill to swallow imho. A 204cm power athlete coming on late should not just be dropped off. His age should have nothing to do with our list decision and more what he can/could achieve in 12 more months here.

If it came down to a gamble on Crauford or Phillips it's a no brainer for me and I'd say the club says the same thing holding the opposite view.

My ruck quartet next year would be:

1. Draper
2. Crauford (key forward)
3. Bryan (key defender)
4. Wright (key forward)
 

Yoda_

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If it came down to a gamble on Crauford or Phillips it's a no brainer for me and I'd say the club says the same thing holding the opposite view.

My ruck quartet next year would be:

1. Draper
2. Crauford (key forward)
3. Bryan (key defender)
4. Wright (key forward)
All well and good but looking at that, perhaps a genuine ruck isn't a bad idea to look at.
 

BrunoV

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All well and good but looking at that, perhaps a genuine ruck isn't a bad idea to look at.

Waste of a list spot. It's not that Crauford and Bryan aren't genuine rucks, it's clearly their main position, it's just a way of showing how else players would be used to justify 4 ruckmen with list reductions.

I'm also keen the maximise available talent at our disposal. Looking at the raw ability of the 3 young talls we now have, we should be looking at a way to use it all. Bryan in defence is a bit of a pipe dream but I think people forget how awful at the art of defending Harris Andrews was when he started. Bryan is basically a physical and athletic clone of Andrews. It's simply not that much of a reach to turn quick talls into quality KPDs. The smaller, less athletically gifted KPDs are the ones who have to be technicians from day one.
 

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citizen-erased

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Waste of a list spot. It's not that Crauford and Bryan aren't genuine rucks, it's clearly their main position, it's just a way of showing how else players would be used to justify 4 ruckmen with list reductions.

I'm also keen the maximise available talent at our disposal. Looking at the raw ability of the 3 young talls we now have, we should be looking at a way to use it all. Bryan in defence is a bit of a pipe dream but I think people forget how awful at the art of defending Harris Andrews was when he started. Bryan is basically a physical and athletic clone of Andrews. It's simply not that much of a reach to turn quick talls into quality KPDs. The smaller, less athletically gifted KPDs are the ones who have to be technicians from day one.
yep. agree.
it's a shame we lost the VFL this year to give Bryan & Crauford some better exposure & the opportunity Draper had to hone their skills

Really like the athleticism of Crauford.
 

owen87

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yep. agree.
it's a shame we lost the VFL this year to give Bryan & Crauford some better exposure & the opportunity Draper had to hone their skills

Really like the athleticism of Crauford.
Think a few of our project talls have definitely suffered this year without the VFL.

Crauford, Bryan and McBride all looked promising but never really got a chance to play proper game-time in various roles.

If one of these guys can make it as a genuine KPD that would be a big step, we don't really have anyone that can play on the Lynch (or Daniher) height guys.
 

citizen-erased

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Think a few of our project talls have definitely suffered this year without the VFL.

Crauford, Bryan and McBride all looked promising but never really got a chance to play proper game-time in various roles.

If one of these guys can make it as a genuine KPD that would be a big step, we don't really have anyone that can play on the Lynch (or Daniher) height guys.
yep. Hence i'd like to give them all another year to develop and re-assess at end of next.
 

Red Black and Blue

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Think a few of our project talls have definitely suffered this year without the VFL.

Crauford, Bryan and McBride all looked promising but never really got a chance to play proper game-time in various roles.

If one of these guys can make it as a genuine KPD that would be a big step, we don't really have anyone that can play on the Lynch (or Daniher) height guys.
Should just play the projects... first year Tim English was three centimetres taller than Bryan and weighed the same. He managed to play two games in his first year, 7 in his second. Taken in the same draft as Draper, who weighed ten kilos more than him, yet was only going to debut in his third year despite us having trash for ruck men.

We need to ******* play these guys. This nonsense about not being ready is fearful garbage, you're either good enough or not. Throw them to the wolves, give them time to find their feet and find out, cause the way we have done it doesn't work.
 

owen87

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Should just play the projects... first year Tim English was three centimetres taller than Bryan and weighed the same. He managed to play two games in his first year, 7 in his second. Taken in the same draft as Draper, who weighed ten kilos more than him, yet was only going to debut in his third year despite us having trash for ruck men.

We need to ******* play these guys. This nonsense about not being ready is fearful garbage, you're either good enough or not. Throw them to the wolves, give them time to find their feet and find out, cause the way we have done it doesn't work.
I disagree here. You play to win. If the project isn't better than the guy holding him out, then he doesn't play. The only exception would be when the season is clearly cooked, but even then, you're best served building a culture of competing every single week than simply playing the projects.

Draper was definitely not ready to debut until 2019, and unfortunately, when he was likely going to debut he did his knee.
 

BrunoV

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Should just play the projects... first year Tim English was three centimetres taller than Bryan and weighed the same. He managed to play two games in his first year, 7 in his second. Taken in the same draft as Draper, who weighed ten kilos more than him, yet was only going to debut in his third year despite us having trash for ruck men.

We need to ******* play these guys. This nonsense about not being ready is fearful garbage, you're either good enough or not. Throw them to the wolves, give them time to find their feet and find out, cause the way we have done it doesn't work.

Pretty much. As if Crauford could not have come in during the frenzy to share the ruck load and spend some time forward (in shortened games). As far as we can tell he's a natural competitor. It always feels like we're holding guys like him back out of the fear that the bottom four spots in the team will cost us an AFL match which would be a joke if it wasn't true.

I can understand not exposing him as the number 1 but selecting Phillips in the side with another ruckman it's evidence of delusion. It was the same last year for Draper. The same conservative rubbish that saw Ridley limited to 9 games in his first 3 years would almost certainly have kept Draper from the team. He was essentially BOG in the first month of seconds footy in 2019. He's always been a competitor and yet Clarke gets paired with Bellchambers. The injury to Draper simply saved Worsfold for having to invent some story about Draper playing on a wing to develop his game in the ruck.

I suppose the club's response in defence would be to unironically observe that Crauford didn't ruck a lot this in the scratch matches and that Phillips took almost all of that time...because we'd have not made the finals if Phillips was not raring to go as the back up...
 

fairbump_playon

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I disagree here. You play to win. If the project isn't better than the guy holding him out, then he doesn't play. The only exception would be when the season is clearly cooked, but even then, you're best served building a culture of competing every single week than simply playing the projects.

Draper was definitely not ready to debut until 2019, and unfortunately, when he was likely going to debut he did his knee.
100% agree with this position

Doesn't mean they need to be conservative at the selection table - you still need to pick guys when they are ready - but not gift games just for development.
 

Red Black and Blue

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I disagree here. You play to win. If the project isn't better than the guy holding him out, then he doesn't play. The only exception would be when the season is clearly cooked, but even then, you're best served building a culture of competing every single week than simply playing the projects.

Draper was definitely not ready to debut until 2019, and unfortunately, when he was likely going to debut he did his knee.
Which is what we’ve done for years. It hasn’t worked. The objective isn’t to win games, But win premierships. People conflate the two, but that’s old world thinking where systems weren’t as important.

These days it’s about ability to execute roles in a system, someone that is physically incapable of performing that role long term should be overlooked for someone that is, even if it means giving up a little on performance in the immediate.
 

Lore

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Which is what we’ve done for years. It hasn’t worked. The objective isn’t to win games, But win premierships. People conflate the two, but that’s old world thinking where systems weren’t as important.

These days it’s about ability to execute roles in a system, someone that is physically incapable of performing that role long term should be overlooked for someone that is, even if it means giving up a little on performance in the immediate.
The biggest problem is players, coaches, list and recruiting managers, general managers, CEOs, and directors all need to be on the same page about whether or not a premiership *right now, this year* is the goal.
 

owen87

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Which is what we’ve done for years. It hasn’t worked. The objective isn’t to win games, But win premierships. People conflate the two, but that’s old world thinking where systems weren’t as important.

These days it’s about ability to execute roles in a system, someone that is physically incapable of performing that role long term should be overlooked for someone that is, even if it means giving up a little on performance in the immediate.
As I said, I disagree with you there.

You shouldn't play guys on potential for the sake of it; arguably given the Footy Frenzy there was games where some of these guys could have reasonably got a look in. But simply dumping a senior player who's performing well for the shiny new thing with no exposure isn't a good thing in my opinion.
 

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Red Black and Blue

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As I said, I disagree with you there.

You shouldn't play guys on potential for the sake of it; arguably given the Footy Frenzy there was games where some of these guys could have reasonably got a look in. But simply dumping a senior player who's performing well for the shiny new thing with no exposure isn't a good thing in my opinion.
And this is where I disagree. It’s not the sake of it, it’s a marginal hit if any to look to the future.

Bellchambers hasn’t played well in years, Leuenberger couldn’t execute a handball. If we had competent recruiters/development Bellchambers would have played 50 games and Leuy would have been left in the bargain bin.

Hurley conceded two rising star nominations, while BZT and Francis did outstanding jobs on Dixon and King respectively in his absence.

These kids are alright and the reality is these senior players aren’t. It’s only fear stopping these changes being made, avoiding the knowledge that club greats that helped carry us through turbulence aren’t that good.
 

owen87

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And this is where I disagree. It’s not the sake of it, it’s a marginal hit if any to look to the future.

Bellchambers hasn’t played well in years, Leuenberger couldn’t execute a handball. If we had competent recruiters/development Bellchambers would have played 50 games and Leuy would have been left in the bargain bin.

Hurley conceded two rising star nominations, while BZT and Francis did outstanding jobs on Dixon and King respectively in his absence.

These kids are alright and the reality is these senior players aren’t. It’s only fear stopping these changes being made, avoiding the knowledge that club greats that helped carry us through turbulence aren’t that good.
You're cherry picking occasions here though, plus I disagree with your assessment of players and the options.

Draper could have realistically played maybe a fortnight to a month before he did his knee. He simply wasn't a genuine alternative prior to that.

Leuenberger was actually a solid depth ruckman. Bellchambers has been physically cooked for a while, but was OK in 2018, before starting to really struggle in the second half of 2019 (with Zac Clarke being an extremely poor alternative) and 2020.

Yes Hurley hasn't been outstanding, but Francis is now in to his 4th year on the list, while BZT is in to his 3rd year. It's not the same as plucking Crauford or Bryan from scratch matches in hubs to playing in the AFL.
 

Red Black and Blue

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You're cherry picking occasions here though, plus I disagree with your assessment of players and the options.

Draper could have realistically played maybe a fortnight to a month before he did his knee. He simply wasn't a genuine alternative prior to that.

Leuenberger was actually a solid depth ruckman. Bellchambers has been physically cooked for a while, but was OK in 2018, before starting to really struggle in the second half of 2019 (with Zac Clarke being an extremely poor alternative) and 2020.

Yes Hurley hasn't been outstanding, but Francis is now in to his 4th year on the list, while BZT is in to his 3rd year. It's not the same as plucking Crauford or Bryan from scratch matches in hubs to playing in the AFL.
It’s not cherry picking.

In 2018 Hurley dropped his career average contest losses from less than one in five (very good) to one in three (terrible) and last year it was still the same (AFL statspro).

Bellchambers has has one good year in 2013 and everything else has been back up standard. Lacked any mobility to compete aerially anywhere other than defensive 50 kick outs and had no second effort at ground level. But our standards have been so poor it appears acceptable Vs the alternative.

Senior players have underperformed, it’s all over their metrics.

Crauford is 23, not a spring chicken if he isn’t physically ready to get a game infront of a metaphorical football invalid, why draft him in the first place?

Our selection policy hasn't been anything other than an absolute disaster.
 

Lore

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THE mature-aged ruck from Norwood is a player who has the physicality – but not quite the athleticism and endurance – to come straight into an AFL system, with his contested marking ability, strength and work around the ground among his best traits. He manages to find plenty of the ball despite not having a high endurance base, following up well for his size to average 4.9 clearances and 3.6 tackles among 15.9 disposals this season. It is no surprise though that a player of his size lacks athleticism across the board, with his effort making up for that gap. The 22-year-old continued his development in the SANFL Reserves this year across 19 games, taking out the Redlegs’ best and fairest at said level for his consistent season. His 18 disposals, seven clearances, six tackles and 47 hitouts against South Adelaide was the peak, and an insight into his potential to dominate. Overall, a mature-age ruck option for clubs with a few years under his belt and the confidence to impact games beyond the ruck battle.

STRENGTHS: Contested marking, strength, accumulation, ruck work
IMPROVEMENTS: Athleticism, endurance
From Draft Central, published in 2019.

 

bombreys

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I disagree here. You play to win. If the project isn't better than the guy holding him out, then he doesn't play. The only exception would be when the season is clearly cooked, but even then, you're best served building a culture of competing every single week than simply playing the projects.

Draper was definitely not ready to debut until 2019, and unfortunately, when he was likely going to debut he did his knee.
You have to try the kids at some point though. And you never know how good they’ll be until you try them.

The Port game, for example, we were out of finals and never going to win the game anyway - and Phillips was absolutely terrible. Crauford would not/could not possibly have played as bad as Phillips did.

For some reason the past decade, we’ve stuffed around and not given our kids enough of a chance. Dogs are one example, but Port, Cats, Lions and Tigers (Tigers to a lesser extent), all give their kids more of a chance than a 13th placed Essendon does. It doesn’t make sense. I really hope Rutten is nothing like Worsfold in that regard
 

Red Black and Blue

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You have to try the kids at some point though. And you never know how good they’ll be until you try them.

The Port game, for example, we were out of finals and never going to win the game anyway - and Phillips was absolutely terrible. Crauford would not/could not possibly have played as bad as Phillips did.

For some reason the past decade, we’ve stuffed around and not given our kids enough of a chance. Dogs are one example, but Port, Cats, Lions and Tigers (Tigers to a lesser extent), all give their kids more of a chance than a 13th placed Essendon does. It doesn’t make sense. I really hope Rutten is nothing like Worsfold in that regard
This comes back to the point Lore made. Our power brokers have always been optimistic rather than realistic about the state of our list. They think we are always just a form away from being a contender, rather than actually looking at the attributes of our players and how they stack up to the teams that win flags.
 

ant555

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not sure if his tank has improved much, but his movement in the scratchies looked athletic enough.
esp with getting the ball off the ground.
Scratch matches this year where a joke. Had been told from people from a couple of clubs that they where glorified trading drills with zero game plan and players just chasing the footy.
The issue not thing they did was keep fitness levels up.
 

citizen-erased

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Scratch matches this year where a joke. Had been told from people from a couple of clubs that they where glorified trading drills with zero game plan and players just chasing the footy.
The issue not thing they did was keep fitness levels up.
yep. but for a 202cm giraffe, scratch or no scratch he moved well.
A lot more co-ordinated and nimble than you'd expect
 

bombreys

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Scratch matches this year where a joke. Had been told from people from a couple of clubs that they where glorified trading drills with zero game plan and players just chasing the footy.
The issue not thing they did was keep fitness levels up.
I feel sorry for anyone like Crauford (i.e. untried) that gets cut this year. Just not getting a chance to show what you can do/prove yourself.
 

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