List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Kane McGoodwin]

Agreed. Aside from Thilthorpe, Pedlar is the one I really want to see entrenched in the 22 by season's end.

Just needs some games continuity without injury.

 

[Jirkago75]

That assumes that Fog is good enough to be Walker's replacement, an assumption which is not supported by any evidence shown to date.

That said, I have no objection to resting Walker, and seeing if Fogarty is capable of stepping up in his absence. If there's any year where this kind of experimentation is to be encouraged, then it has to be this year.

I love what Walker bring to the team But at the moment, he is a liability. If the ball movement is good to him, he gives away frees or gets out marked. Our midfielders are getting any better and so the delivery won’t improve.
give Fog a go for a few games by himself and seeif he is good enough. You are a big critic of his and rightfully so but he hasn’t played full forwardfor more then 5 minutes in a game I’ve seen this year. Let see what he’s got. I want to see what happens when it’s bombed on his head to see how he will go

 

[bootrossbootross]

Yeah that is a good point, i just wish greenwood accepted what we initially offered him because he would have been very handy now as a mentor and he is not going to achieve anything at Gold Coast

lol he will achieve more at gold coast than if he had stayed.

 

[bootrossbootross]

Keath was 100% the correct call to trade when we did. 27 years old, 1 good season, wanted a payday and we were entering a rebuild with pretty minimal youth stocks. It's as cut and dry as it gets to send Alex to market and bank the picks for it. We didn't do a great job at the trade table with it, though not as badly as Greenwood as at least we got a second-round pick for Alex (and I think we dealt that to move up to get Brayden Cook). We also got Gollant from it, though I think that part was a downgraded pick. Still, it depends on who you draft if they'd delay a rebuild or not more so than keeping the senior player. If Cook and Gollant become solid contributors (if not more), then keeping Keath would have delayed it. Kids are truly the only thing that matters when it comes to a rebuild.

That said, we're pretty flush with KPD prospects, as much as we're married to a dumb 1-tall structure, but being married to ridiculous KP structures is truly a character trait of this club right now. Worrell will be a jet with careful development (ok, he'd probably end up a jet within about a month if we played him seeing he has a decently advanced intercept game and we're a bottom four side, which would artificially inflate his impact), though he'd replace a good chunk of what Keath produced pretty quickly. McAsey looks like a solid prospect but probably doesn't have the superstar ceiling, but another shutdown defender in the Butts/Talia mould. Borlase and Murray are both ok prospects, who'll likely have a career in the right situations.

It's certainly the area of least concern at the moment.

I also completely disagree with the list management comment. It's been pretty spot on for the early parts of a rebuild. We've aggressively burned down our list and restocked it with a lot of youth which is really the main thing for this stage.

thats comedy gold my precious. one thinks maybe the list management that got us into this position might confirm it has been atrocious. one also might think the list management that has built a list largely devoid of elite talent might also confirm it has been atrocious.

im all for supporting the players we have as it is not their fault, but enabling the administration to continue to underperform by accepting the mediocrity they have dished up for the best part of a decade is not the path to greatness.

gold coast, essendon, carlton, brisbane, fremantle are all within 0.3 years of the crows average age, and those sides are bursting with young talent. i left out north but a strong case could be made their list is sgtronger than the crows as well.

so yes, we have the youngest list, but its hardly a plus for the list management team as imho it is firmly grounded in mediocrity. lets assume the poor decision making continually displayed is just young players getting up to speed and not a crap game plan (i think it may turn out to be the latter). the skill by foot and hand has been missing for 5 years, and we are slow slow slow. this is because the list management has been atrocious. the few shining lights we do have are often not getting played as we chase premiership points instead of development.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Nathan Freeman is carving it up in the VFL
Is he worth a punt?

the one who played for pies and saints?

 

[Mego Red]

- given our well documented issue with finding enough departures to meet the ND requirements already.

Sorry - where has this been documented?

 

[Vader]

I love what Walker bring to the team But at the moment, he is a liability. If the ball movement is good to him, he gives away frees or gets out marked. Our midfielders are getting any better and so the delivery won’t improve.
give Fog a go for a few games by himself and seeif he is good enough. You are a big critic of his and rightfully so but he hasn’t played full forwardfor more then 5 minutes in a game I’ve seen this year. Let see what he’s got. I want to see what happens when it’s bombed on his head to see how he will go

I'm happy to do the experiment of playing Fogarty at FF and resting Tex, and this week appears to be a perfect opportunity to do so.

I'm just not holding my breath in anticipation of a positive outcome.

On SM-T510 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vader]

Sorry - where has this been documented?

It's been discussed repeatedly in this very thread.

On SM-T510 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Thetrader15]

I'm happy to do the experiment of playing Fogarty at FF and resting Tex, and this week appears to be a perfect opportunity to do so.

I'm just not holding my breath in anticipation of a positive outcome.

On SM-T510 using BigFooty.com mobile app

So give Fog the FF role by himself this week, away v WC who have 2 of the best KPDs in the comp, where we will likely lose by 60+?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Greenwood
Ellis-Yolmen
Jenkins (Still paying him and additionally paying in multiple ways for his direct replacement Frampton)
Betts (let him finish his contract)
Keath
Crouch

I also didn't rate Stengle that highly but there's no way he should have been released.

Everyone goes on about how we are still paying betts and jenkins wages but I would love one of these people to actually tell us how much that is exactly..

They make it sound like we are still paying them the wage they were contracted to when they left us.

I was under the impression we pay “part of their new wage at their new club”

So, for example, we may have been paying JJ $550k a year on his contract.. he goes to geelong on $250k a year (that was the rumour in the media at the time that JJ was only chasing a $200-250k contract to move) and we pay part of that $250 a year..

Does anyone know exactly how this works.. I mean, surely we arent paying JJ’s full wage at geelong and geelong are paying nothing?..

 

[Vader]

So give Fog the FF role by himself this week, away v WC who have 2 of the best KPDs in the comp, where we will likely lose by 60+?

Sure, why not? Tex clearly needs a rest, and Fog's fanbois are screaming for him to be given an opportunity without Tex there as the primary target. Maybe they'll wake up to reality when we play a decent (not great) team, without Tex, and Fogarty still fails to fire in the forward line.

I know you're suggesting that we'd be setting him up to fail - but the reality is that he needs to be measured against a decent measuring stick (as distinct from kicking 3 against Norf).

 

[Bearded Clam]

You may be right, however, it would be a seriously dumb move to only use one mid-season pick. We have basically 4 players out for the season - Milera, Hinge, Murphy & Lynch (Lachie and Tom may play a couple towards the end, but will have negligible impact on the rest of this season). Also, Talia & Gollant unavailable for 1-2 months. Added to this is the profile of our list which (as we know) is the youngest in the league, and we all know young players struggle to maintain their impact over a 22-game season. Additionally, banking 3 mid-season picks gives us some 'insurance' in case of more injuries in the second half of the season. And, furthermore, during a rebuild we shouldn't be passing up any opportunity to bring talent to the footy club, regardless if it is not high-end.

Added to this, we are already one short on the list with Gibbs/Stengle gone since end-of-20, replaced only by Murray.

Yep.. we’re in a rebuild.. lynch is pointless keeping on the list.

Id be pulling lynch aside right now and saying “mate, you’ve been a great servant of the club, great leader, but your done, we arent moving forward with you on the list next year”..

So, given he’s out injured for most of the remaining rounds of this season.. we put him on the LTI list and replace him with a new player in the MSD..

Tell him he can either find a new club at years end if he wants to play on or he can stay at the club and take up a role helping coach the Womens team..

Time to start moving on from some of these players that wont be around for the next finals campaign.. lynch is one of em. Maybe also even get him to play on in the sanfl side to provide mentorship there.. anyone know how many ex afl players are we allowed to give positions like that?.

We need to be explore every option possible and to be removing anything thats clogging the list. All its doing is prolonging the rebuild.

 

[Jirkago75]

Yep.. we’re in a rebuild.. lynch is pointless keeping on the list.

Id be pulling lynch aside right now and saying “mate, you’ve been a great servant of the club, great leader, but your done, we arent moving forward with you on the list next year”..

So, given he’s out injured for most of the remaining rounds of this season.. we put him on the LTI list and replace him with a new player in the MSD..

Tell him he can either find a new club at years end if he wants to play on or he can stay at the club and take up a role helping coach the Womens team..

Time to start moving on from some of these players that wont be around for the next finals campaign.. lynch is one of em. Maybe also even get him to play on in the sanfl side to provide mentorship there.. anyone know how many ex afl players are we allowed to give positions like that?.

We need to be explore every option possible and to be removing anything thats clogging the list. All its doing is prolonging the rebuild.

That’s brutal but I like it, keep only 5 or 6 experienced guys and dump the rest

 

[Bearded Clam]

That’s brutal but I like it, keep only 5 or 6 experienced guys and dump the rest

Its brutal but its necessary.

Id say talia and tex will almost definately be given 1 year contract extentions come years end..

So for leadership we’ll have;

Talia
Smithers
Tex
Sloane
Seed

All guys that have been around the club for more than long enough now to be classed as long term leaders. And these guys cover forward, mid and centre.

Backing these (next year) guys we also have;

Laird
Keays
Doedee
McAdam- if he can get back to his best
Mcrouch
Kelly
Milera - hopefully he can return

Thats enough leadership and experience there to help guide the younger players

In saying that.. Id also be encouraging mcrouch to explore free agency.

So hopefully;

Mcrouch - takes up FA
Lynch
Mookay
Davis
All gone

Already provides four open spots (two of these are rookie spots mind you). We will need to open other spots but this is a start we will need to cut deeper.

 

[spenze]

this just utter nonsense. You can back the truck into any position if you try hard enough

the most far fetched gymnastics though has to be saying that it was the right decision to go to the market & bank the picks, but casually glide past how we got fu** all in doing so

we misread every ******* thing on Keath & Greenwood, literally every ******* thing and still people will try and reverse into thinking it was a good idea

we need both now, today to support our rebuild.

The whole Keath and Greenwood trades showed we never had a rebuild in mind coming into 2020. If we were serious on a rebuild we would have moved Crouch on as he had trade capital.

We only went rebuild four rounds in when we knew we were so far off finals we had to save face

 

[FR0GGY]

Sure, why not? Tex clearly needs a rest, and Fog's fanbois are screaming for him to be given an opportunity without Tex there as the primary target. Maybe they'll wake up to reality when we play a decent (not great) team, without Tex, and Fogarty still fails to fire in the forward line.

I know you're suggesting that we'd be setting him up to fail - but the reality is that he needs to be measured against a decent measuring stick (as distinct from kicking 3 against Norf).

Surely no one thinks he’ll smash it immediately when we give him an opportunity to be a main target?
That would be dumb thinking, let’s give him an extended opportunity before we crucify him.

 

[phill5158]

lol he will achieve more at gold coast than if he had stayed.

I wouldn't be so sure of that

 

[Jirkago75]

Its brutal but its necessary.

Id say talia and tex will almost definately be given 1 year contract extentions come years end..

So for leadership we’ll have;

Talia
Smithers
Tex
Sloane
Seed

All guys that have been around the club for more than long enough now to be classed as long term leaders. And these guys cover forward, mid and centre.

Backing these (next year) guys we also have;

Laird
Keays
Doedee
McAdam- if he can get back to his best
Mcrouch
Kelly
Milera - hopefully he can return

Thats enough leadership and experience there to help guide the younger players

In saying that.. Id also be encouraging mcrouch to explore free agency.

So hopefully;

Mcrouch - takes up FA
Lynch
Mookay
Davis
All gone

Already provides four open spots (two of these are rookie spots mind you). We will need to open other spots but this is a start we will need to cut deeper.

I agree and we need to move on Matt, he has been good for us but in our rebuild we need him gone. We need another top 20 pick

 

[DJ75]

I agree and we need to move on Matt, he has been good for us but in our rebuild we need him gone. We need another top 20 pick

I tend to agree. While we can see that our midfield is getting beaten up now and he would be helpful, that doesn't help the long term.

If he were to leave as a free agent or in a trade, where we are able to bundle a 2nd round pick with him for a top 20 pick, then I'd definitely be keen.

 

[GreyCrow]

Everyone goes on about how we are still paying betts and jenkins wages but I would love one of these people to actually tell us how much that is exactly..

They make it sound like we are still paying them the wage they were contracted to when they left us.

I was under the impression we pay “part of their new wage at their new club”

So, for example, we may have been paying JJ $550k a year on his contract.. he goes to geelong on $250k a year (that was the rumour in the media at the time that JJ was only chasing a $200-250k contract to move) and we pay part of that $250 a year..

Does anyone know exactly how this works.. I mean, surely we arent paying JJ’s full wage at geelong and geelong are paying nothing?..

Not sure that's accurate but I have no concrete evidence

All I can logically surmise is that we paid the balance over what Geelong are paying

JJ had a contract here. Let's say front ended and the last year at $475k

We want to move him on JJ says nah staying here or negotiate.

Geelong offer him 275k per knowing we will top it up

Or JJ plays sanfl for his original contract.

 

[baldandbroke]

I'm just not holding my breath in anticipation of a positive outcome.

I feel the same way when I see you are posting about Fog again

 

[baldandbroke]

this just utter nonsense. You can back the truck into any position if you try hard enough

the most far fetched gymnastics though has to be saying that it was the right decision to go to the market & bank the picks, but casually glide past how we got fu** all in doing so

we misread every ******* thing on Keath & Greenwood, literally every ******* thing and still people will try and reverse into thinking it was a good idea

we need both now, today to support our rebuild.

No individual player determines the success of a rebuild. Keeping or letting go certain a player is never the pivot on which premierships balance.

No problem with either leaving for the right $ and years, neither are going to be sliding doors moments imo ... they just aren't the age profile that will be essential players when we are next competing for a flag.

 

[Ian_Perries_Glove]

Its brutal but its necessary.

Id say talia and tex will almost definately be given 1 year contract extentions come years end..

So for leadership we’ll have;

Talia
Smithers
Tex
Sloane
Seed

All guys that have been around the club for more than long enough now to be classed as long term leaders. And these guys cover forward, mid and centre.

Backing these (next year) guys we also have;

Laird
Keays
Doedee
McAdam- if he can get back to his best
Mcrouch
Kelly
Milera - hopefully he can return

Thats enough leadership and experience there to help guide the younger players

In saying that.. Id also be encouraging mcrouch to explore free agency.

So hopefully;

Mcrouch - takes up FA
Lynch
Mookay
Davis
All gone

Already provides four open spots (two of these are rookie spots mind you). We will need to open other spots but this is a start we will need to cut deeper.

Agree for most part. I would be moving Tex on as well, sadly. The annoying thing is both lynch and B crouch should have been shopped at end of 2018 when they both had currency. We should have faced the reality that our squad was done as far as competing for the flag. Lynch has been a shadow of himself last few years and we know now B Crouch went for less than we could have gotten.

I am on the fence about Davis. He has real promise and was never managed properly under old management (like so many on our list). Now can’t seem to get on the park. Probably best to let him go but I think has genuine talent and a bit of X factor. His two games were against Geelong at the tin shed that is their stadium and the showdown, which is classic crows.

 

[Bazz_27]

The article from afl.com on slivers- https://www.afl.com.au/news/612040/silvers-lining-crows-ceos-2004-feeling-about-rebuild-for-a-reason

Taylor Walker's contract for 2022
"With Taylor he's one of a few veterans coming out of contract this year and I think we'd probably like to group them together and review it mid-season. But what I would say about Tex is his season so far has been outstanding, the way he's led the group has been fantastic, his form is doing all the right things that indicate another season would definitely be warranted and something we'll discuss with him in the middle of the year."

So give up on the idea he won't be going around again.

 

[spenze]

No individual player determines the success of a rebuild. Keeping or letting go certain a player is never the pivot on which premierships balance.

No problem with either leaving for the right $ and years, neither are going to be sliding doors moments imo ... they just aren't the age profile that will be essential players when we are next competing for a flag.

I have no problem with them leaving, they were moved on (we weren't coming to the table with close to a half-decent offer). In a sense though, the players you do move on does affect your rebuild because you want premium picks to rebuild on and we were never getting that with Greenwood. We valued the 20 or so 1-2s the Crouch Brothers get over Greenwoods 15-20 possession games so, thinking we still had a shot, we moved Greenwood on. If the review told us anything, it was that no matter what had happened in the last 3 seasons, if we just moved on Campo, Birdman and Pyke we'd be hunting a top 4 spot.

As a club, we misread the situation appallingly. Last year, Greenwood in a very poor GCS side polled 11 Brownlow votes, Brad gave us little in his 12 games and an off season drug bust and a band 3 compo. We should have been with Brad when his manager was trying to shop him, we would have got a first round pick but we sat on our hands...again.