AFL allocates Zones to Victorian Teams

[Kwality]

That is how it is meant to work, AFL should get off their arse and fix their woeful junior development programs.

What is so bad in your neck of the woods?

I'd say WA is using the same basic template that's been around for decades via the WAFL clubs & volunteers in the burbs & towns all over WA.
Specialist groups (call them academies if you like) already exist, its not some GilFIX, e.g Perth Football Club http://www.demonsdistrict.com.au/

A good example is Clontarf, not affiliated with any club, operating nationally & its more about community than just footy at AFL level
http://www.clontarf.org.au/academy/

I don't see what the AFL could add other than money.

 

[Kwality]

I don't want to embed this because it's enormous but it's a ratings breakdown I found:

http://footyindustry.com/files/afl/media/tvratings/2015/2015AFLRatings.png

Total viewership for the H&A season:

Sydney: 2.6m
Melbourne: 23.6m
Brisbane: 2.2m
Adelaide: 9.8m
Perth: 9.7m
Regional: 6.6m

Total FTA: 54.4m

Fox: 34.5m

TOTAL: 88.8m

According to this Perth accounts for 17.8% of total FTA viewership. Given Perth makes up 75% of the population of WA the total is probably around 20% or so. Perth tends to rate pretty well per capita for Saturday and Sunday games (obviously better if WA teams involved) but poorly for Friday night due to games starting at 4.50/5.50pm.

Foxtel has around 2.8m subscribers, but I haven't seen any data on the breakdown per state or how many have the sports package. I watch all my games on Fox but 7 Perth swapping assigned games for Foxtel games involving WC/Freo would deter WC/Freo fans from Foxtel take-up. Based on the above 39% of viewership is Foxtel and 61% is FTA, while the money split to get the rights (2012-2016) is 50% Fox, 38% Channel 7 and 12% Telstra (http://www.afana.com/drupal5/news/2012/09/02/afl_and_nrl_domestic_broadcast_deals_compared-5078).

TV rights are a funny one. Based on figures above Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth combine for 80% of all FTA viewership. Sydney and Brisbane combine for less than 10%. Sydney and Brisbane represent a market of 7 million people, though. NSW and Queensland 12.3m. Having a presence in these markets is huge for the TV rights value, and now with a game in Qld and NSW every week it's even, errr, huger.

Anyway, bit of a tangent...

The regionals get overlooked Scots, & given the Northern NSW market is bigger than Perth, huger is even bigger

 

[Tas]

What is so bad in your neck of the woods?

I'd say WA is using the same basic template that's been around for decades via the WAFL clubs & volunteers in the burbs & towns all over WA.
Specialist groups (call them academies if you like) already exist, its not some GilFIX, e.g Perth Football Club http://www.demonsdistrict.com.au/

A good example is Clontarf, not affiliated with any club, operating nationally & its more about community than just footy at AFL level
http://www.clontarf.org.au/academy/

I don't see what the AFL could add other than money.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Victoria, given the state reliably produces more than half the draftees every year, the problem is outside Vic/SA/WA where the infrastructure isn't that great. Even Tasmania which is a football state has a poor development program.

It should be the AFL's responsibility to develop youth, not the clubs.

 

[telsor]

Or is the Riverina the thin edge for those who don't want the development of the game to succeed ? So the Vic clubs lose a good recruiting ground albeit with the odd father/son (Hawkins) still making their way.

It takes more than 5 years to get a team going in heartland States so a leg up in the developing states should be a given.

Who doesn't want the development to succeed?

There is a big difference between that and wanting a share of the of any success resulting from the millions we've invested up there.

Also, it's not just Vic clubs...All clubs (including WA clubs) should have just as much right to draft players from the Riverina as anyone else does.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It should be the AFL's responsibility to develop youth, not the clubs.

Exactly. Half the clubs can't even manage themselves properly and the AFL expects them to manage the academies?

 

[telsor]

Exactly. Half the clubs can't even manage themselves properly and the AFL expects them to manage the academies?

That and wouldn't it be better for the game as a whole if the academies put some effort into developing players who wont make the AFL as well? Improving the standards of 2nd tier leagues isn't a bad thing.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

That and wouldn't it be better for the game as a whole if the academies put some effort into developing players who wont make the AFL as well? Improving the standards of 2nd tier leagues isn't a bad thing.

That's what I think will be an unfortunate by-product of this. Once clubs figure out a player isn't going to be much use to them on the senior list what happens? Hopefully they aren't just unceremoniously dumped because it's bad enough when that happens but when you're targeting these academies towards already vulnerable communities (indigenous and migrant) the impacts could be quite harmful.

 

[Kwality]

Who doesn't want the development to succeed?

There is a big difference between that and wanting a share of the of any success resulting from the millions we've invested up there.

Also, it's not just Vic clubs...All clubs (including WA clubs) should have just as much right to draft players from the Riverina as anyone else does.

I'd suggest the schools have played a large part in the success of the Riverina.

If the NSW team get priority, I've no objection, its whats good or our game.

 

[Kwality]

That's what I think will be an unfortunate by-product of this. Once clubs figure out a player isn't going to be much use to them on the senior list what happens? Hopefully they aren't just unceremoniously dumped because it's bad enough when that happens but when you're targeting these academies towards already vulnerable communities (indigenous and migrant) the impacts could be quite harmful.

one of the strengths of Clontarf is its not a footy factory.

 

[Kwality]

That's what I think will be an unfortunate by-product of this. Once clubs figure out a player isn't going to be much use to them on the senior list what happens? Hopefully they aren't just unceremoniously dumped because it's bad enough when that happens but when you're targeting these academies towards already vulnerable communities (indigenous and migrant) the impacts could be quite harmful.

Guess there is more opportunity where the 2nd tier run the programs & pathways thru U18/19s, seconds, firsts & then AFL lists.

 

[telsor]

I'd suggest the schools have played a large part in the success of the Riverina.

If the NSW team get priority, I've no objection, its whats good or our game.

Why is it good for the game for some clubs to get advantages over other clubs?

 

[Seedsfan]

All these academies are a joke clubs lost them in the first place as it was not compatible with the draft. The TAC cup is a good system and the northern states should have a TAC cup like system rolled out in them funded by the AFL. All these academies do is keep giving a leg up to clubs that can't stand on there own 2 feet

 

[telsor]

Guess there is more opportunity where the 2nd tier run the programs & pathways thru U18/19s, seconds, firsts & then AFL lists.

Exactly...

Leave it to the lower tiers to develop players, and make it worth their while when through fortune or good management one of the players they develop reaches AFL level. Allow them to refer kids to academies and have them accepted if they're probably going to be at least state league level, rather than just 'potential AFL players'.

Aim to provide the 'extra' support and development to 500 good 18 year olds per year rather than the current system which *might* work on 50 and reduce the gap between the AFL and 2nd tier leagues (and hopefully help create decent 2nd tier leagues out of VFL, NEAFL & TFL, but that's another matter).

 

[Kwality]

All these academies are a joke clubs lost them in the first place as it was not compatible with the draft. The TAC cup is a good system and the northern states should have a TAC cup like system rolled out in them funded by the AFL. All these academies do is keep giving a leg up to clubs that can't stand on there own 2 feet

The TAC Cup is more like an audition for AFL listing, no other obvious pathway.

Giving a leg up to a developing market could be contrasted with heartland clubs over 100 years old that don't pull their weight.

 

[telsor]

The TAC Cup is more like an audition for AFL listing, no other obvious pathway.

Giving a leg up to a developing market could be contrasted with heartland clubs over 100 years old that don't pull their weight.

You mean like the junior clubs we used to have, that were gotten rid of because the expansion clubs didn't have them, and replicating that structure for clubs like WCE just wasn't viable (even if the WAFL/WAFC would have let them)? (same think as happened to VFL reserves, and for the same reasons).

Vic clubs stopped having U-19s because it wasn't fair for your club. And now you pretend we're not pulling our weight as a result?

They do however work with juniors...TAC cup and VFL have some crossover (I think 1 TAC cup kid plays in each AFL affiliated VFL club each week as '23rd man') and there is training and development that happens (e.g. Swans potential FS player, Josh Dunkley spent much of last year training with Richmond).

 

[Seedsfan]

The TAC Cup is more like an audition for AFL listing, no other obvious pathway.

Giving a leg up to a developing market could be contrasted with heartland clubs over 100 years old that don't pull their weight.

Trust someone from WA to be an expert on the TAC cup. If you don't get drafted you have the option to go play VFL for your aligned club or play in the AFL Victoria development league.

 

[Kwality]

Trust someone from WA to be an expert on the TAC cup. If you don't get drafted you have the option to go play VFL for your aligned club or play in the AFL Victoria development league.

So tell me about the aligned club relationship because that's a pathway - once rejected in the AFL draft/rookie etc, a player can go & find a gig anywhere in footy, or follow a path.

 

[Kwality]

You mean like the junior clubs we used to have, that were gotten rid of because the expansion clubs didn't have them, and replicating that structure for clubs like WCE just wasn't viable (even if the WAFL/WAFC would have let them)? (same think as happened to VFL reserves, and for the same reasons).

Vic clubs stopped having U-19s because it wasn't fair for your club. And now you pretend we're not pulling our weight as a result?

They do however work with juniors...TAC cup and VFL have some crossover (I think 1 TAC cup kid plays in each AFL affiliated VFL club each week as '23rd man') and there is training and development that happens (e.g. Swans potential FS player, Josh Dunkley spent much of last year training with Richmond).

There is no doubt the AFL was poorly equipped to address equality in the early days (still) BUT its a bit rich to blame WA for the cost cutting decisions applied to the Vic clubs resulting in the demise of the reserves & U19s - in WA the WAFL clubs kept the reserves & U19s. The 2nd tier in Vic footy has been a year by year arrangement.

 

[eth-dog]

So tell me about the aligned club relationship because that's a pathway - once rejected in the AFL draft/rookie etc, a player can go & find a gig anywhere in footy, follow a path.

VFL has a 23rd man rule, which allows players under 23 (I think) have 6 games in the VFL under said rule. Many VFL clubs use to introduce a TAC player into the VFL with it. I think the current alignment is something like:

Casey-Gippsland Power
Sandringham-Sandringham Dragons
Werribee-Geelong Fancons
Box Hill-Eastern Ranges
Williamstown-Western Jets
Port Melbourne-Oakleigh Chargers
Northern Blues-Northern Knights
Coburg-Calder Cannons
North Ballarat-North Ballarat Rebels

Murray Bushrangers and Bendigo Pioneers don't have an alignment as far as I'm aware. Generally Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond and Footscray use players on their own VFL list or F/S players. Sometimes they make a deal with the Bushies or Pioneers.

 

[Kwality]

the alignment.
Its a far cry from the junior development model going back to the VFL days & the game development is the lesser for it. Time AFL Victoria stood for something again.

 

[Seedsfan]

So tell me about the aligned club relationship because that's a pathway - once rejected in the AFL draft/rookie etc, a player can go & find a gig anywhere in footy, or follow a path.

Every TAC club has an aligned VFL. The Northern Knights boys go to the Northern Blues,
Eastern Rangers go to Box Hill, Calder go to Coburg,
Western Jets go to Williamstown, Oakleigh Chargers go to Port Melbourne,
Geelong go to Geelong,
North Ballarat go to Ballarat, Murray Bushrangers go to Collingwood
Bendigo go to Essendon Sandringham Sandringham
I think Dandenong go to Cassey and I am not sure where the Gippsland Power go maybe Richmond

 

[eth-dog]

Every TAC club has an aligned VFL. The Northern Knights boys go to the Northern Blues,
Eastern Rangers go to Box Hill, Calder go to Coburg,
Western Jets go to Williamstown, Oakleigh Chargers go to Port Melbourne,
Geelong go to Geelong,
North Ballarat go to Ballarat, Murray Bushrangers go to Collingwood
Bendigo go to Essendon Sandringham Sandringham
I think Dandenong go to Casey and I am not sure where the Gippsland Power go maybe Richmond

All incorrect

 

[Kwality]

All incorrect

Perhaps you can put us straight ?

My point about pathways was that a kid that fails at any point on a pathway effectively has a safety net structure to sweep them up when they fail, a fall back. Its important (IMHO) when you try to develop the game particularly amongst the multi cultural groups.

 

[Gigantor]

All these academies are a joke clubs lost them in the first place as it was not compatible with the draft. The TAC cup is a good system and the northern states should have a TAC cup like system rolled out in them funded by the AFL. All these academies do is keep giving a leg up to clubs that can't stand on there own 2 feet

There's certainly some truth in that (giving certain clubs a leg up), but as far as the Giants, Suns (and even the Lions) go, I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that.

Conversely, it can be argued that some of the players brought through these academies would never have made it to the AFL (someone like Heeney from Newcastle), so these Northern academies have definitely increased the talent pool - isn't that a good thing?

Re the Suns, the AFL has taken an area that had a decent AFL following (where other sports are stronger, and where professional teams regularly die) and it is slowly making it a stronger AFL area - you don't achieve something like that without a lot of effort and investment.

Western Sydney is a different scenario altogether, a much tougher market - but the potential gains for our game are enormous.

In that context, both clubs are doing well, and the academies are an important part of the mix.

 

[Gigantor]

Further to my last post, here's a good example of what I am talking about:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-21/kiwi-prospect-set-to-shine

We have a New Zealand born kid, to a South AFrican father, raised in Brisbane, playing both rugby union and aussie rules.

The one key thing which has tipped the scales in favour of aussie rules? The Academy.

This is precisely what it's all about - why on Earth would anyone think this is not a good idea?

The Lions deservedly have first call on him - and if the price is too high to pay (re the draft point ranking system), then another club will get him - even though he is only in the draft because of the Brisbane Academy.

Similarly, the dogs got access to Dunkley, for whom the Swans had priority access. It shows that the system is such that a player linked to one club can end up on another if the club with the priority does not rate his as much as another club. The system works - and it's good for footy.

Anyone remember Geelong building a premiership dynasty on the back of cheap father-son selections? (and maybe the dogs are doing something similar right now)

The last point to make - have we already forgotten the massive interest in the last draft, partly generated by the new bidding system - I doubt we are going to lose it in a hurry.