News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[mpal6]

Fingers crossed this happens.

Would finally force the AFL to take over this charade once and for all.

They won't as they tried it and it needs too much from investment perspective.

The biggest problem AFL face in QLD and NSW face is establishing AFL at grassroots level across schools (private/ public) and run programs. It helps divert resources like AFL coaches, trainers and even second tier players to move up north with a steady source of income and options to move around in terms of jobs.

They don't have this in Brisbane and Northern QLD - Gold Coast is slowly changing now thanks to all migrations from Victoria up north to QLD. Private schools in Brisbane are NRL aligned and school board blocks AFL from getting introduced as an option.

Academies get around this problem by aligning clubs running it so they leverage existing club infra / setup to expand into those junior programs. Players can be the face of it, good marketing along the way etc. If AFL funds this from ground up, youre looking at a bigger upfront investment and maintenance. They failed last time but they are welcome to give it a go again without involving any of the clubs located in those areas.

 

[fargothegreat]

The problem isn't the points system. The problem is that bottom clubs aren't getting the best talent and it's taking too long to rebuild.

Saying no bid matching for the entire first round is overkill imo, but having a protected top 10 makes a lot of sense.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The problem isn't the points system. The problem is that bottom clubs aren't getting the best talent and it's taking too long to rebuild.

Saying no bid matching for the entire first round is overkill imo, but having a protected top 10 makes a lot of sense.

That probably opens it up even more for manipulation

 

[PowerBaz]

Can we get Gillon back - everything Dillon touches is turning to shit.

 

[fargothegreat]

That probably opens it up even more for manipulation

How so? It keeps enough of an incentive for clubs to keep putting resources into their academies while stopping rebuilding sides from missing out on the real top end talent.

 

[Superstar swan]

Expect clubs to essentially rank academy kids draft stock.

If you have an academy kid aligned to your club that you won’t have access to in the first round, why on earth would you choose to showcase his talent .

Hold him out of u/18 champs. Shut him down early , misleading injury reports.

Just means clubs will get academy players below market value again

 

[go_the_dockers]

The problem isn't the points system. The problem is that bottom clubs aren't getting the best talent and it's taking too long to rebuild.

Saying no bid matching for the entire first round is overkill imo, but having a protected top 10 makes a lot of sense.

I think this sums up the problem.

You finish bottom, get pick 1 but a team in top 4 gets a top 5 player through F/S or Academy and also get a free agent.

So instead of getting closer to them in talent, it actually goes the other way.

 

[Bostonian]

If they chose to leave in the early stages of their career they wouldn't be a free agent. Clubs would have to trade for them.
If they're any good, exposed form at the level and a year or 2 of development would see them be worth more than the initial draft pick they were originally picked with.

Not if the player is told to just coast around and put minimal effort in.

Stink the place up with a bad attitude from day one.

 

[mpal6]

I suggested before that if you want to make it fair and even while keeping all these systems like father/son, academy, NGA still working - then make the clubs agree that if they choose to match a bid in first round of one year, they are going to relinquish bid matching in the following year. Also they can only match a single bid in first round. Hold the current points system as well so second round picks are needed to match bids in first round.

It's a genuine lottery at that point on which year they are choosing to let go and clubs have to a choice to make. for example we would've matched Ashcroft in 2022, can't match Fletcher as our bid matching would've been capped at a single bid. We miss the father-son and academy first rounders in the following year 2023 and then we'll be back matching for Levi Ashcroft in 2024 and can't match Marshall who is another first round selection going to a different club.

Let's apply this logic for all father/son, academy, NGA bids as a whole. It could be setup as single bid across all 3 streams if the club played finals in draft year or the club is allowed one bid across each of them (father/son + academy or father/son + NGA) in first round if you're not playing finals.

 

[Purple Suit]

Will be interesting to see the route the Suns and others take with the academies now if this all comes to pass. The biggest incentive to run the academy has now been removed from the table. Can imagine the investment/resource may be diverted elsewhere.

Freo got their access moved to pick 40 but still ran academies. It allows you to keep tabs on all the juniors to a point and builds a system around father/sons who we have full access too.

Now that the rules changed again, players fall straight into it. We should get a kid this year in Whan who had a crap champs but has absolutely tore Colts a new one. We will probably miss one next year who is set to go higher.

No way GC or anybody else give up 2nd round plus access in some sort of hissy fit. Still a big advantage and allows you to get a local core & brings in fans. I wouldn’t go past the AFL changing the rules eventually too.

 

[Purple Suit]

I suggested before that if you want to make it fair and even while keeping all these systems like father/son, academy, NGA still working - then make the clubs agree that if they choose to match a bid in first round of one year, they are going to relinquish bid matching in the following year. Also they can only match a single bid in first round. Hold the current points system as well so second round picks are needed to match bids in first round.

It's a genuine lottery at that point on which year they are choosing to let go and clubs have to a choice to make. for example we would've matched Ashcroft in 2022, can't match Fletcher as our bid matching would've been capped at a single bid. We miss the father-son and academy first rounders in the following year 2023 and then we'll be back matching for Levi Ashcroft in 2024 and can't match Marshall who is another first round selection going to a different club.

Let's apply this logic for all father/son, academy, NGA bids as a whole. It could be setup as single bid across all 3 streams if the club played finals in draft year or the club is allowed one bid across each of them (father/son + academy or father/son + NGA) in first round if you're not playing finals.

I don’t mind this but think they should cap it if you make or win a final too. It’s propping up those on top of the ladder that is the problem and this restricts the bottom teams from rising. Win a flag and you should lose 1st round access for 5 years.

The system has to make it harder to keep contending, not prolong a teams window for 10 years.

They really need to address why Sydney & Geelong never dip more more than 1 season too and make it harder.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

Can I get a vibe check on which clubs are happy about the changes?

Collingwood
Brisbane
St Kilda
Freo for some reason

Richmond because we'll take Walker next year off Carlton.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How so? It keeps enough of an incentive for clubs to keep putting resources into their academies while stopping rebuilding sides from missing out on the real top end talent.

Because it’s easier to slide from 5 to 11 than 5 to 19. Teams with top 10 picks are less likely to risk it on someone who says they don’t want to be there and will request a trade.

 

[kreglze]

Freo got their access moved to pick 40 but still ran academies. It allows you to keep tabs on all the juniors to a point and builds a system around father/sons who we have full access too.

Now that the rules changed again, players fall straight into it. We should get a kid this year in Whan who had a crap champs but has absolutely tore Colts a new one. We will probably miss one next year who is set to go higher.

No way GC or anybody else give up 2nd round plus access in some sort of hissy fit. Still a big advantage and allows you to get a local core & brings in fans. I wouldn’t go past the AFL changing the rules eventually too.

Yeah, agreed I don't think they stop doing them, but I think they may change their approach.

Again all up in the air until it is all made official.

 

[Bostonian]

Richmond because we'll take Walker next year off Carlton.

And then he'll walk on you.

 

[hammer180]

Not sure why everyone is complaining, fatherson still exists, just means the team who wants their fatherson has to trade with the team who currently has their pick (means the team with that pick gets fairly compensated instead of moved down the order), ownus is now on the club to keep the tradition and heritage by making a trade that satisfies the counterpart.
All they've done is removed the discount entirely which is what the point system is.

 

[Rich01]

And then he'll walk on you.

I don’t think he will TBH.
We have a great relationship with him and his family.

But if the blues want him, they could trade for our pick next year. We will be bottom two no doubt.

It would at the very least be the TDK compo and your future first, which in the scheme of things would probably be a palatable result for the blues.

In saying that, I do feel for the blues.
These were supposed to have been the contending years after a full rebuild, and Walker is the great white hope after realising that it may not be the blues glory years.

 

[Elixuh]

Not sure why everyone is complaining, fatherson still exists, just means the team who wants their fatherson has to trade with the team who currently has their pick (means the team with that pick gets fairly compensated instead of moved down the order), ownus is now on the club to keep the tradition and heritage by making a trade that satisfies the counterpart.
All they've done is removed the discount entirely which is what the point system is.

What? How do you know what pick a player is going to go in advance?

 

[hammer180]

What? How do you know what pick a player is going to go in advance?

The ln trade for pick 1?

 

[Bostonian]

I don’t think he will TBH.
We have a great relationship with him and his family.

But if the blues want him, they could trade for our pick next year. We will be bottom two no doubt.

It would at the very least be the TDK compo and your future first, which in the scheme of things would probably be a palatable result for the blues.

In saying that, I do feel for the blues.
These were supposed to have been the contending years after a full rebuild, and Walker is the great white hope after realising that it may not be the blues glory years.

You don't though.

He never used your NGA, never indicated ever Richmond was an option.

There is no relationship to speak of. Not in the way you think it would influence where he wants to play.

 

[Bostonian]

The ln trade for pick 1?

You think a trade could be done that quickly between teams in a live draft?

 

[Elixuh]

The ln trade for pick 1?

I suppose academy will be better for the northern clubs because you can either tell them to stay they want to stay at home pre draft or bring them home once a team has sufficiently developed them. And we aren’t tangling with 9 other clubs in vic for the signature.

 

[hammer180]

You think a trade could be done that quickly between teams in a live draft?

We have enough information before hand to not need to do it live, cochrane and walker are projected to go 1 and 2 in next yrs draft, there's time to that make trade, we have live trades in general now so of course you can get it done. What's the point of having live trades then?

 

[RUNVS]

Bring that in and it will kill the academies entirely. In the 12 years the academy has been in operation I think we (the Swans) only have Gulden who has played a lot of games in the main team who was drafted outside the first round. 1 player in 12 years is simply not worth the effort of running the academy.

 

[Bostonian]

We have enough information before hand to not need to do it live, cochrane and walker are projected to go 1 and 2 in next yrs draft, there's time to that make trade, we have live trades in general now so of course you can get it done. What's the point of having live trades then?

Who gets to project where a player goes?

Sounds like a system that could be exploited by other teams knowing how it could benefit them.

In your scenario who gets to determine who is 1 and 2 out of the two players you named if they are evenly matched?