News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Elixuh]

That’s crazy, I still remember 11 being picked up in 2006

Plenty of years where there were 0

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Plenty of years where there were 0

Atleast 10

 

[My_Username]

Having said that, WA player development has been shocking for year. Who is fixing this?
The gold coast accademy has better prospects this year, than all players from WA.
I think QLD last year was better than WA as well.

It's 'owned' by WAFC/WAFL.

The AFL gives them millions to help with it, so probably have some influence, but parochial interests insist that it's controlled by them, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Farang83150]

It's 'owned' by WAFC/WAFL.

The AFL gives them millions to help with it, so probably have some influence, but parochial interests insist that it's controlled by them, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

The AFL give who millions?

 

[Yoda_]

Ive posted previously but teams who put in time and money into there NGA’s will have better results.

I know for a fact we are one of the highest spenders in Melbourne in this area and we are duly going to be rewarded with an NGA kid a year for a 4 year period (24- Kako, Nguyen, 25- Sweid, El-Achkar, 26- Justice, 27- Darwish, Yow Yeh)

 

[My_Username]

The AFL give who millions?

WAFC

For all the talk about how much WCE/Freo fund them, the WAFC financial reports show that the AFL gives them significantly more directly than either club (might be more than both, it's been a while since I looked)

 

[RUNVS]

I never said that we should get rid of academies, I just said what ever system is created we must ensure the bottom clubs get the best talent. (Both through free agency and the draft)



Issue 1 - Equality
I think that is a separate issue. We need to allow the bottom clubs to rebuild fairly quickly.

You can't keep having the best talent going to certain clubs, and other clubs stuck at the bottom.

Free agency is another issue, which tends to favour the big vic clubs and the clubs at the top at the top of the ladder.

Issue 2 - Player Development.

The academies clearly help local development, and if they werent there the AFL would need to do a lot more.

Having said that, WA player development has been shocking for year. Who is fixing this?
The gold coast accademy has better prospects this year, than all players from WA.
I think QLD last year was better than WA as well.

-----------------

How many academy teams have won the flag since the academy system was introduced?

Really it is only Brisbane, so perhaps it is not that unfair a system since non-academy sides have won it every other year.

 

[Elixuh]

Ive posted previously but teams who put in time and money into there NGA’s will have better results.

I know for a fact we are one of the highest spenders in Melbourne in this area and we are duly going to be rewarded with an NGA kid a year for a 4 year period (24- Kako, Nguyen, 25- Sweid, El-Achkar, 26- Justice, 27- Darwish, Yow Yeh)

There should be minimums you have to spend every year and across a three year period min to be able to access nga.

Otherwise it’s just a genuine rort. If you’re not putting any money in and just doing an ancestry dot com test when a player comes along it’s not good enough.

The whole reason nga went away in the first place was because clubs weren’t putting any money into it, were doing ancestry dot com tests when a player can along. It was a genuine rort and they weren’t improving the comps talent pool at all.

 

[My_Username]

There should be minimums you have to spend every year and across a three year period min to be able to access nga.

Otherwise it’s just a genuine rort. If you’re not putting any money in and just doing an ancestry dot com test when a player comes along it’s not good enough.

The whole reason nga went away in the first place was because clubs weren’t putting any money into it, were doing ancestry dot com tests when a player can along. It was a genuine rort and they weren’t improving the comps talent pool at all.

The real question that should be considered is if all of this is to identify and attract new talent, or to develop it.

The guy whose father is an assistant coach at insert club here, or has a family history of playing local footy probably didn't need to be identified or attracted to the game.

If the point is development, then it really becomes pretty iffy in terms of giving some clubs an advantage (both knowing who the good recruits are, and having them closer to being AFL level).

 

[lusheslewis]

WAFC

For all the talk about how much WCE/Freo fund them, the WAFC financial reports show that the AFL gives them significantly more directly than either club (might be more than both, it's been a while since I looked)

The AFL definitely does not fund the WAFC once you take into account the lower distribution the WA clubs receive.

But I don't think money is the issue with WA talent development.

 

[Farang83150]

WAFC

For all the talk about how much WCE/Freo fund them, the WAFC financial reports show that the AFL gives them significantly more directly than either club (might be more than both, it's been a while since I looked)

Are you sure about that?

 

[My_Username]

Are you sure about that?

That's what the WAFC financial report says.

(to clarify things a bit....'consolidated' includes the clubs, 'royalties' is what the clubs pay to the WAFC, and as you'll notice, there is also an 'AFL Distribution' direct to WAFC Inc.)

 

[Elixuh]

The real question that should be considered is if all of this is to identify and attract new talent, or to develop it.

The guy whose father is an assistant coach at insert club here, or has a family history of playing local footy probably didn't need to be identified or attracted to the game.

If the point is development, then it really becomes pretty iffy in terms of giving some clubs an advantage (both knowing who the good recruits are, and having them closer to being AFL level).

The issue is part of the academies job is to provide an elite talent pathway and develop talent. So they might be the son of a former afl player but outside of the academies, there are no elite talent pathways in qld. And the academy isn’t as good as what exists in Melbourne.

 

[go_the_dockers]

It's 'owned' by WAFC/WAFL.

The AFL gives them millions to help with it, so probably have some influence, but parochial interests insist that it's controlled by them, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

Will be interesting to see how much was spend on development vs NSW and Qld.

Would not surprise me if academies out spend WA.

 

[My_Username]

Will be interesting to see how much was spend on development vs NSW and Qld.

Would not surprise me if academies out spend WA.

WAFC insists that they're the ones running development.

 

[Ash1337]

Why cant they just have the picks used go to the club bidding on the player instead? While it might encourage unfair bidding if the club think the bid is too high then they'll just let bidding club have the player. Having the picks being swallowed means bottom teams bidding on high prospect kids get jipped too. If Tigers bid on Uwland they get extra draft picks to do as they wish.

 

[Dockeroo]

This assumes that in the absence of the Academies this talent continues to exist. As has been noted many many times, absent the Academies, almost none of these current players choose AFL as their sport (at least that's the case with the Swans).

So, you're back with the idea that the AFL runs the Academies, a concept that failed to produce any significant numbers over the course of a decade.

Which means that at a time when you're bringing in a new club, you're farewelling a source of 6-10 players a year.

All these arguments have been gone over many many times before.

One of the big issues with the northern academy defenders is you guys just don’t see the importance of bottom clubs getting the top end talent.
It’s like - “oh isn’t it great we are getting all these extra players from Queensland” great for the game, etc etc.

Even if the consequence is that Brisbane play finals for 15 years in a row. Meaning that’s one less place for a bottom club like north or west coast to aspire to dislodge in the 8. You guys just don’t care about that.
It’s soon going to be comp when the top 8 is really a top 6, plus Brisbane and GC who are automatic finalists every year due to the sheer weight of numbers of elite talent they are getting for peanuts from the top of the draft.

It’s urgently needing a drastic overhaul.
Picks 1,4 and 5 heading to two finalists in this years draft for basically nothing is just farcical. How many years in a row now is that?
Couldn’t care less how well it’s growing the game.

 

[giantroo]

Cal on what should happen with the Academy- F/S bidding system

Monday Cal-culations: Draft lockout not the answer, Nicks' past life lessons, Dees' deadline

In Monday Cal-culations, Callum Twomey looks at the big decisions facing the Demons, the Bombers' moves to land a new fitness boss and the 'reverse Coleman'

www.afl.com.au

There are other fixes that should be considered first:

• a cap of one per year per club inside the first round or top-10;
• a rolling maximum of two per club over two years in the top-10;
• an allowance to only match a first-round bid by using a first-round pick, thus making sure they can't be matched with later selections or traded out;
• a premium bidding 'tax' added under the points system, rather than a discount, for clubs matching early bids;
• closing the loophole that allows clubs on draft night to use more picks than they have available list spots to match bids;
• giving clubs that are in the bottom part of the ladder multiple years in a row an extra mid-first round selection;
• changing free agency compensation so band one picks start after the non-finalists have had their first picks at No.11.

 

[Elixuh]

The issue for the AFL is GWS and GCS are a big problem, particularly GWS.

If you get rid of the ability for these clubs to fill their list with local talent then I do wonder about the long term viability of both.

We have seen with GCS, when their list was predominantly interstate they bled talent every offseason. Since they’ve added a large cohort from their academy they’ve stabilised nicely and have slowly climbed up the ladder.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

How are teams going to beat the lions going forward. The cats may do it this season but only if the lions after not at their best but looking from beyond 25 good luck.

From the team that beat the hawks in round 24 they will have Neale, Berry, Hipwood, Payne, Answerth and Coleman in 2026. Then if they get Allen, Draper, Ridley plus Academy players I cannot see them not winning the Flag for some time to come. This after 2nd in 23, premiers in 24 and possible premiers in 25. Thay are becoming an unstoppable jiggermast why in the hell do they need academy players. Over to you AFL

 

[VinnieB]

The issue for the AFL is GWS and GCS are a big problem, particularly GWS.

If you get rid of the ability for these clubs to fill their list with local talent then I do wonder about the long term viability of both.

We have seen with GCS, when their list was predominantly interstate they bled talent every offseason. Since they’ve added a large cohort from their academy they’ve stabilised nicely and have slowly climbed up the ladder.

I don't think local talent makes the club. A strong club environment, with a highly regarded coach and impending success is what drives it. GC in particular would be very appealing for young guys.

Western Sydney may be a hole, but many GWS players live inner Sydney anyway, which is a great place to be.

I really fear for the Tasmanian team. Cold and miserable during the season. Not to sort of place young men have a desire to flock to.

 

[mpal6]

How are teams going to beat the lions going forward. The cats may do it this season but only if the lions after not at their best but looking from beyond 25 good luck.

From the team that beat the hawks in round 24 they will have Neale, Berry, Hipwood, Payne, Answerth and Coleman in 2026. Then if they get Allen, Draper, Ridley plus Academy players I cannot see them not winning the Flag for some time to come. This after 2nd in 23, premiers in 24 and possible premiers in 25. Thay are becoming an unstoppable jiggermast why in the hell do they need academy players. Over to you AFL

We are going through a phase of list management where senior players are bonding together without chasing top dollar which they can get elsewhere.

That phase is bound to end at some point and then elite talent retention will become equally challenging for us too. If/when we overcommit our cap to a bunch of players like Saints are doing at the moment then we'll go through that yo-yo cycle of lacking good players in the 23 to 30 bucket and struggling over time. Other club players may say they want to come to Lions but if we don't have the money - it's all academic discussion anyway.

We don't have wealthy backers like Cotton On do for Geelong to boost our player earnings via other streams. We need to either get lucky via drafting (like Morris) or more late blooming academy players (like Bruce Reville) to keep our run going.

 

[Elixuh]

I don't think local talent makes the club. A strong club environment, with a highly regarded coach and impending success is what drives it. GC in particular would be very appealing for young guys.

Western Sydney may be a hole, but many GWS players live inner Sydney anyway, which is a great place to be.

I really fear for the Tasmanian team. Cold and miserable during the season. Not to sort of place young men have a desire to flock to.

I think you underplay the impact of having local kids with their families living locally and how that benefits the entire club. Interstate kids effectively get adopted by these families and are after often involved in their lives which give a greater sense of being at home.

 

[Elixuh]

How are teams going to beat the lions going forward. The cats may do it this season but only if the lions after not at their best but looking from beyond 25 good luck.

From the team that beat the hawks in round 24 they will have Neale, Berry, Hipwood, Payne, Answerth and Coleman in 2026. Then if they get Allen, Draper, Ridley plus Academy players I cannot see them not winning the Flag for some time to come. This after 2nd in 23, premiers in 24 and possible premiers in 25. Thay are becoming an unstoppable jiggermast why in the hell do they need academy players. Over to you AFL

It helps when guys like McCluggage, Berry, Rayner, Morris etc have knocked back significantly higher offers to stay at the club.

Eg clug and Rayner knocked back approx 3-400kpa to stay at the lions.

We are also losing one of our best defenders and as well as another who was the finals player of the year last year when we won the flag.

Nice hysteria though.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I think if just remove the discount, limit the number of picks per club over a 5 year period that would be a happy medium.

Per 5 year period
1 top 5 pick
2 top 10 picks (Includes top 5 picks)
4 first round picks (Includes top 10 picks)


Any picks not used, can be used over the next 5 years.