AFLW and sexism

[Mattdougie]

Now I’m not trying to bait anyone and I’m asking a very serious question

Is it sexist to think that the quality of AFLW(at the present) is poor and due to that having no interest watching it?

I don’t want to create an argument so just answers to that simple question! No extensions into comments from that because that will no doubt end in a s**t fight.

I have just been reading a lot on the topic over the weekend and it seems anyone who doesn’t praise the game is labelled a sexist? I’d that fair or is it sexism?

 

[fitzroybowiedog]

I reckon it depends on why you don't want to watch it.
If it's just because their women, or you don't think they look feminine enough running around then yeah.
If a quality arguement then it's a bit more hazy. If you want them to be like the men then you've got to take in how far back they are coming from. There is no pathway after under 14s so they are all converts or returning to the sport after and absence. Which is something that many people don't take into account.
Criticism is justified if the whole picture is taken in, unfortunately from my experience much of it basically they are s**t and their game is s**t and they should eff off.

 

[Substance]

If we didn't have a AFLW team, I probably would have no interest, even though I have an interest in AFL.

The games are very hard to watch at times, and it's only my love of all things Footscray FC that I want to watch them and cheer them on.

I'd say if you have a passion for the dogs, but still manage to s**t on AFLW at every opportunity, then maybe you should reflect on why that is.

 

[Some Idiot]

I think there has to be an element of sexism in people going out of their way to degrade the game and hate on the players, other wise what reason do they have to be so vocal? If you think it's boring and don't want to watch and largely ignore it, that's fine.

I think what happens when you have a group of highly vocal supporters of the game and a group of highly vocal detractors is that people start looking at it as an argument with two sides and expect that everyone is taking one side or the other, e.g. in this case people perceive that if you're not supporting the game then you must be siding with the sexist detractors.

 

[paulveed]

Sexism, just like racism, are terms that are thrown about, not just to frequently these days, but totally indiscriminately. No, of course the standard of female footy at this stage of it's evolution, is not comparable to the current elite male AFL version. But jeez, the males have a what, 120-130 year head start. If you went back and compared the WAFL in it's formative 3 seasons, with the first 3 years of the male game, you'd have to say the girls are probably miles in front. But that probably is as unfair a comparison as trying to compare current WAFL with the men's current competition. Let us just enjoy the girl's game for what it is, where it is at at present, and where it is coming from. Yes it has a long way to go, but why not enjoy it for what it is. Just as we wouldn't expect VFL, SANFL or TAC U/18 to compare to the elite AFL level, that does not mean we cannot appreciate and enjoy watching those competitions, so lets just give the women's game some clear air for this developmental phase, which after all really is the competitions period of development. While AFL is my favourite sport to watch, I do also enjoy watching VFL and TAC matches, AND by the way, the women's game as well. It doesn't have to be either or. How about appreciating them all, with no expectation that they need to be other than what they are right now.

 

[Sharkey66]

My daughters about to turn 22 loves her footy, more knowledgeable about her team than a lot of her guy friends and thinks that the woman's game is a load of rubbish and they shouldn't be playing. Gives the sort of arguments there is no point trying to reason with. (Ive tried).
Some people just don't want to know about womans footy.
As she is female herself is it sexist? It most likely would be labled so if it came from a male i'd say.

 

[Mattdougie]

If we didn't have a AFLW team, I probably would have no interest, even though I have an interest in AFL.

The games are very hard to watch at times, and it's only my love of all things Footscray FC that I want to watch them and cheer them on.

I'd say if you have a passion for the dogs, but still manage to s**t on AFLW at every opportunity, then maybe you should reflect on why that is.

Hmmm this is one of the things I struggle with

The assumption that because you support the dogs you should by extension support the AFLW

So using this idea if the dogs form an Esports team as Essendon have or a netball team at the pies have we are assumed to support those teams also?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

What I struggle to understand is that a large portion of those that dislike AFLW is due to the lack of spectacle which can be put down to the skill level, athleticism, decision making and so on.
Yet you can almost guarantee those still watch local senior and junior level footy.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that if you’re ok with watching local footy which is far inferior to AFL then yes, there is definitely a sexist element to having no time for AFLW.
So maybe the AFLW haters should think about what exactly they can tolerate, sporting wise, then have another think about giving the women a chance and maybe just enjoy it for what it is rather than what it isn’t.

 

[Spud Patrol]

What I struggle to understand is that a large portion of those that dislike AFLW is due to the lack of spectacle which can be put down to the skill level, athleticism, decision making and so on.
Yet you can almost guarantee those still watch local senior and junior level footy.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that if you’re ok with watching local footy which is far inferior to AFL then yes, there is definitely a sexist element to having no time for AFLW.
So maybe the AFLW haters should think about what exactly they can tolerate, sporting wise, then have another think about giving the women a chance and maybe just enjoy it for what it is rather than what it isn’t.

Watching local and juniours is going to the ground because you support that club. Having AFLW plastered all over the afl website and social media pages, 7 and foxtel is just too much. If people wanted to watch it they shouldn't have to give away free passes to every match of the season.

 

[ossie_21]

It would be sexist if you say you don’t want to watch because they are women.

It’s a fact to say the quality compared to men’s AFL is poor, as it’s what we are all accustomed to.

It will get better over time as the standard increases and more ladies get involved, which is happening these days at amateur level, largely in part to AFLW publicity. It may not be for everyone, but just like the men’s it needs time. Some scores aren’t too different to what was happening over 100yrs ago, thankfully everyone didn’t just give up.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Watching local and juniours is going to the ground because you support that club. Having AFLW plastered all over the afl website and social media pages, 7 and foxtel is just too much. If people wanted to watch it they shouldn't have to give away free passes to every match of the season.

That’s the same reason I watch the Dogs AFLW team. I follow the club.
You seem really angry about AFLW, Spud Patrol. Is it purely because of the marketing of the comp itself ?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Sexism, just like racism, are terms that are thrown about, not just to frequently these days, but totally indiscriminately. No, of course the standard of female footy at this stage of it's evolution, is not comparable to the current elite male AFL version. But jeez, the males have a what, 120-130 year head start. If you went back and compared the WAFL in it's formative 3 seasons, with the first 3 years of the male game, you'd have to say the girls are probably miles in front. But that probably is as unfair a comparison as trying to compare current WAFL with the men's current competition. Let us just enjoy the girl's game for what it is, where it is at at present, and where it is coming from. Yes it has a long way to go, but why not enjoy it for what it is. Just as we wouldn't expect VFL, SANFL or TAC U/18 to compare to the elite AFL level, that does not mean we cannot appreciate and enjoy watching those competitions, so lets just give the women's game some clear air for this developmental phase, which after all really is the competitions period of development. While AFL is my favourite sport to watch, I do also enjoy watching VFL and TAC matches, AND by the way, the women's game as well. It doesn't have to be either or. How about appreciating them all, with no expectation that they need to be other than what they are right now.

I should’ve read the whole thread before posting lol. Well said

 

[Mattdougie]

Sexism, just like racism, are terms that are thrown about, not just to frequently these days, but totally indiscriminately. No, of course the standard of female footy at this stage of it's evolution, is not comparable to the current elite male AFL version. But jeez, the males have a what, 120-130 year head start. If you went back and compared the WAFL in it's formative 3 seasons, with the first 3 years of the male game, you'd have to say the girls are probably miles in front. But that probably is as unfair a comparison as trying to compare current WAFL with the men's current competition. Let us just enjoy the girl's game for what it is, where it is at at present, and where it is coming from. Yes it has a long way to go, but why not enjoy it for what it is. Just as we wouldn't expect VFL, SANFL or TAC U/18 to compare to the elite AFL level, that does not mean we cannot appreciate and enjoy watching those competitions, so lets just give the women's game some clear air for this developmental phase, which after all really is the competitions period of development. While AFL is my favourite sport to watch, I do also enjoy watching VFL and TAC matches, AND by the way, the women's game as well. It doesn't have to be either or. How about appreciating them all, with no expectation that they need to be other than what they are right now.

I believe they have set the AFLW up to fail by placing it on such a pedestal that it can only go backwards.

If you look world wide there is not a single professional team women’s sport that carries itself outright.

The closest are the WNBA and the NWSL which have some teams that make a profit but at very small margins compared to the men and with far lower pay agreements.

Tv audiences are already down and attendance will be fiddled with so it looks like it goes up, which with more teams it should. Don’t tell me the AFL don’t do this the GWS prove it.

But let’s pretend for a second that after the gloss wears off the figures will drop to average world rates of attendance and TV audience, so what do they do then ?

They have set a precedence now to have it prime time at this time of year so when/if they change that the league will take a hit. They should have eased into it slowly imo

As many know I don’t care for it myself but neither do I wish for it to fail and I think the way the AFL have jammed it down everyone throats will be a detriment to it long term

 

[Substance]

Hmmm this is one of the things I struggle with

The assumption that because you support the dogs you should by extension support the AFLW

So using this idea if the dogs form an Esports team as Essendon have or a netball team at the pies have we are assumed to support those teams also?

Although to a lesser extent I would say yes. You support them by simply wanting them to win, instead of the default position of not giving a F. The reason I say to a lesser extent, is because Esports and Netball are not Aussie Rules.

The first season of AFLW was horrible. They couldn't bounce the ball, they couldn't even pick the ball up without accidentally kicking it away from themselves. It still is a poor spectacle most of the time, because it's low scoring not due to great defensive play, but due to basic skill errors such as dropped marks, or dropped handballs, or poor kicks. Despite this I still feel joy when the Dogs win, and I am upset when they lose, and it's because they are the F.C.C.

 

[Spud Patrol]

That’s the same reason I watch the Dogs AFLW team. I follow the club.
You seem really angry about AFLW, Spud Patrol. Is it purely because of the marketing of the comp itself ?

No not angry at the comp itself. I've watched a couple of games and due to the quality and skill level, i'd rather clean the tiles in my shower. Because I don't want to watch it I don't want to see it plastered all over every form of media I access.

 

[dogzrule]

I don’t find it interesting to watch when there are only 3 or 4 goals a game and poor skills in comparison. I only have a passing interest seeing there is a dogs side.

Yes I don’t mind going to see vfl and the odd local game either but then again more goals scored and better skills etc

 

[Mattdougie]

Although to a lesser extent I would say yes. You support them by simply wanting them to win, instead of the default position of not giving a F. The reason I say to a lesser extent, is because Esports and Netball are not Aussie Rules.

The first season of AFLW was horrible. They couldn't bounce the ball, they couldn't even pick the ball up without accidentally kicking it away from themselves. It still is a poor spectacle most of the time, because it's low scoring not due to great defensive play, but due to basic skill errors such as dropped marks, or dropped handballs, or poor kicks. Despite this I still feel joy when the Dogs win, and I am upset when they lose, and it's because they are the F.C.C.

So if you don’t support the AFLW are you any less a supporter of the Club?

Sorry mate I can’t agree with this. Regardless what they say the ladies team is an extension to the club and there is no requirement for anyone that has supported the club for years to follow it.

Ive tried each year but I can’t watch it and can honestly say did not care one iota we won the AFLW flag but that does not diminish my love for the club and the team I have followed for my 45 years on this earth.

Possibly in the future when/if it gets to a level I can watch I’m more than happy to sit and watch it and selfishly if I had a vested interest of course I would watch it but I cannot watch thins that don’t interest me. I cannot watch the Big Bash cricket I think it’s absolute shite so is that a form of sexism also?

 

[The Buck]

seems anyone who doesn’t praise the game is labelled a sexis

Any concrete examples of this?

 

[Mattdougie]

Any concrete examples of this?

And social media site that discusses the AFLW

Media and radio that lambast people who have the gall to say it’s not a great standard

Andy Maher every time he opens his mouth

 

[Yojimbo]

As a football and statistics lover I can glean things from watching all levels of football sometimes the worse the standard
the more you can learn, I watched young Morrison the number one draft pick play for Geelong and was very impressed
by her sheer class. I love the girls passion both for the game and to learn and improve as well as the sacrifices they
make to indulge their passion. I am not comfortable with the expansion of the competition, but it does reflect the
increased participation at junior levels. The medical aspects and increased likelihood of certain injuries concerns me, but
I don't think that's sexist just reality. I watched the local girls team train at Casey Fields one day whilst having a walk
and the buzz in the group and enthusiasm was awesome to watch. I understand not everybody will be drawn to it and
fair enough, but I hated the Eade era and watched a lot of Williamstown games during his reign whatever floats your
boat.

 

[Leon]

(The following is not directed personally at you MD, just my thoughts)


This is what you shits me re: AFLW.

There is no shortage of sports I cannot stand and I have literally no interest in.

Rugby (league or union), horse racing, all motor sport, many others.

I’m not offended by the existence of these sports, nor do I have any problem with people who do like them.

I don’t like the sports, I don’t watch them, I don’t read articles relating to them, I don’t bag or troll people who do like them, I just don’t take any interest in it.

Now take the AFLW. There is no shortage of people (and let’s face it, the majority of these people are men) who bag it constantly, put it down, criticism it and troll it.

I saw some article Fox Footy posted on Facebook last week relating to the AFLW, and the comments were a nauseating assortment of offended white males complaining and trolling.

“Women should be in the kitchen hur hur hur amirite”

“I shouldn’t have to read about AFLW, it’s so boring.”


Nauseating. The last time I checked we’re living in a free country, no one is forcing you to read about anything. If you’re not interested or find it boring, then **** off and stop complaining and/or trolling to the people who are interested.

Me, I like the AFLW and I support our women’s team.

If people prefer the men’s game then that’s their right, but stop bagging the game and the women who are playing it and representing both their clubs and the game with the same pride and commitment as the men do.

I have infinite times more respect for the women in the AFLW - athletes who have worked hard their whole life to get to where they are and continue to work hard - than some pissant white male troll on social media who are offended by the idea of women playing footy.

 

[Mattdougie]

See this is becoming an extension of what I didn’t want

The op is one question Andy his is why it ends in arguments

Someone say “I simply don’t enjoy watching it” and people who do extend from there as to why

I’m not discussing the obvious trolls who are just trying to bait people I’m talking about the men and some woman who just say it’s no good and it’s not for me


Ps horse racing isn’t a sport

 

[dogwatch]

I have a casual interest in the AFLW and how it develops. Like others, I've been drawn in because one of the sides represents the FFC that I'm passionate about. I thought I wasn't overly concerned whether we won or lost but I was out of my chair in the last minute of play last night.

At the same time I can easily understand why people might not like it. At present the skills and physicality are nothing like the men's game we're used to but it's coming along quite nicely. And as someone said junior footy is nothing like the men's game but it's still possible just to enjoy it for the contest that it is.

I'm pretty much with Leon's view. If you like it watch it. If you don't like it don't watch it ... and no, that doesn't make you sexist.

However I don't see the need to repeatedly post that you don't like it and then create a thread about it when you aren't keen to follow it. That looks like a bit of gentle old fashioned stirring to me.

I also don't buy the argument you sometimes hear that it's a special case (eg different to junior footy) because it gets shoved down our throats with so much TV and press promotion ... therefore it's OK to regularly shitcan it. What's to be gained by shitcanning something you profess to have no interest in following? All it does is clog up the ether with negativity. I don't take much interest in NBA, golf, NFL, motor sports, horse racing, NRL and some other sports that get a lot of air time and column inches, so I simply don't watch them and almost never publicly comment on them.

Those who repeatedly comment and raise issues about sports they don't like and don't follow invite the suspicion that they actually do have an axe to grind and are being a bit disingenuous about it.

 

[Mattdougie]

I have a casual interest in the AFLW and how it develops. Like others, I've been drawn in because one of the sides represents the FFC that I'm passionate about. I thought I wasn't overly concerned whether we won or lost but I was out of my chair in the last minute of play last night.

At the same time I can easily understand why people might not like it. At present the skills and physicality are nothing like the men's game we're used to but it's coming along quite nicely. And as someone said junior footy is nothing like the men's game but it's still possible just to enjoy it for the contest that it is.

I'm pretty much with Leon's view. If you like it watch it. If you don't like it don't watch it ... and no, that doesn't make you sexist.

However I don't see the need to repeatedly post that you don't like it and then create a thread about it when you aren't keen to follow it. That looks like a bit of gentle old fashioned stirring to me.

I also don't buy the argument you sometimes hear that it's a special case (eg different to junior footy) because it gets shoved down our throats with so much TV and press promotion ... therefore it's OK to regularly shitcan it. What's to be gained by shitcanning something you profess to have no interest in following? All it does is clog up the ether with negativity. I don't take much interest in NBA, golf, NFL, motor sports, horse racing, NRL and some other sports that get a lot of air time and column inches, so I simply don't watch them and almost never publicly comment on them.

Those who repeatedly comment and raise issues about sports they don't like and don't follow invite the suspicion that they actually do have an axe to grind and are being a bit disingenuous about it.

And you still didn’t answer the question just needed to appear clever while commenting with snide little quips

Well done for helping me prove my point

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

And you still didn’t answer the question just needed to appear clever while commenting with snide little quips

Well done for helping me prove my point

Your point? What exactly is your point?

Nobody else knows if you’re sexist or not, Matt. I don’t think you’re going to get the answer to that question here.

You are a terribly predictable individual though - that I can tell you.

You know what I think’s s**t? Basketball. Can’t stand the end to end monotonous shite. I combat this hatred of the sport by not watching it and spending as little time as possible creating threads to discuss the topic.