Alex Hawke, member for Mitchell

[- PC -]

CM, what is the chance that the guy alters his suit like Nelson tho.

If his primary motivation, is to rule, he will not hold to any values steadfastly. They just ROTE Rpublican Christian right politics 101.

Now, the electorate has spoken, expect a similar move in the next decade or so from Hawke.

This will be Hawkes biggest test

How far does he push and hold his core values. Most politicians will have to deal and compromise a lot of their values away in the interest of holding onto power and or to advance their own core values further

Hawke may well be advised to subdue his crusade on abortion until such stage he has enough clout to effect policy ie Abbott

As noted above Im not sure he can stay the course without exploding

 

[Lach72]

I think your posts shows a lack of understanding of where Turbull fits in with the various factions.

Turnbull being opposition leader will not hinder the progress of Alex Hawke within the party

.

Excellent...welcome to continual electoral oblivion

 

[Adrian Shelton]

Hmmmm, i'll be very interested to see how he goes

 

[Richo83]

Dont be thinking that they all belong in the Liberal party, thats only a recent (and hopefully temporary thing). The ALP has long had their share of staunch Catholics who follow a Pell like line.

Whats Rudds position on gay marriage?

Sure, you know well my hatred for christian politics. It's just that the ALP have generally weeded out the catholic parts of their party (DLP for instance) but the Liberals haven't. You're more likely to find greenie and socialist extremists in the ALP than catholics now. Still a problem but a different problem. Thing is though, the greenie and socialist extremists are quite rightly laughed at, yet the neo-cons don't seem to. Howard approved of Hawke, hmm.

FWIW Rudd is not a Catholic, but I see your point.

 

[medusala]

Sure, you know well my hatred for christian politics. It's just that the ALP have generally weeded out the catholic parts of their party (DLP for instance) but the Liberals haven't.

The DLP is dead. The micks have a home again in the ALP.

FWIW Rudd is not a Catholic, but I see your point

Someone could probably enlighten me but I believe until not that long ago every ALP premier and PM had been a Catholic (and conversely very few had ever led the Libs).

The link is still there.

Rudd is a major league God botherer. His hero is allegedly Bonhoeffer.

 

[Richo83]

The DLP is dead. The micks have a home again in the ALP.

True, but that's the fact of living in a Christian dominated nation. Christians will inevitably (unfortunately) spread and come back into politics. I hope that the ALP and the liberal parties revert from their religious roots as soon as possible. Hawke and his ALP comparatives don't belong in politics.

Someone could probably enlighten me but I believe until not that long ago every ALP premier and PM had been a Catholic (and conversely very few had ever led the Libs).

The link is still there.

I'm not sure, my history of the ALP is not much. I know that traditionally, they were a strongly catholic party. You can still see it in certain areas of politics such as gay marriage. IMO though, there isn't an issue with religion and politics as there used to be. I mean abortion, the classic religious topic hardly raises an issue, maybe because the religious have been told to shut up or parties are becoming more reasoned in their religious convictions (I hope) but you're still seeing issues with gay marriage and internet censorship (oh noes, the kiddies might see pr0n! better make a useless national filter!) As an atheist and a secularist, you know where I stand.

Does the ALP have a Catholic version of Hawke? I wonder if they still exist, do you think they still do?

 

[Freo Big Fella]

The DLP is dead. The micks have a home again in the ALP.

You'd be right about the moderates and reformists (even the Jesuits), however, the far right that dominates the current church body politic and the holy see is well and truly sundered from the party and tied up with the libs and what is left of the DLP.

Someone could probably enlighten me but I believe until not that long ago every ALP premier and PM had been a Catholic (and conversely very few had ever led the Libs).

You'd probably be right, but would depend on what your definition of "Catholic" is. I was raised Catholic and went to a Marist school, but I'd hardly call myself a mick.

The link is still there.

You're probably right, but it's very, very minor due to the politics of the modern church. Until Rudd came to prominence, Catholics that believed in social justice were nigh on invisible in public life.

Rudd is a major league God botherer. His hero is allegedly Bonhoeffer.

Him and anyone else whose ever been part of a University Catholic or Christian Society/Club. Got a fair bit of time for old Dietrich anyway, one of the few religious leaders who didn't lay down and let the Nazi's have their way with the country.

The challenge will be to see if Rudd can split his beliefs from his public role, I've seen nothing to demonstrate that he can't.

 

[DaveW]

Someone could probably enlighten me but I believe until not that long ago every ALP premier and PM had been a Catholic (and conversely very few had ever led the Libs).

This is changing, or has changed.

Here in NSW, six of the last seven state Liberal leaders have been Catholics.

Federally though, the modern Liberal Party have never had a Catholic leader. But this looks set to change with at least two (Abbott and Turnbull) of the current contenders being Roman Catholics. (Not sure what Nelson is.)

(Edit: Just looked it up on wikipedia. Nelson went to a Catholic school - so maybe all three?)

 

[DaveW]

As for enlightening you, I'm not sure about state Premiers, but I'll have a run through all the Labor PMs...

Scullin and Keating were (are) devout Catholics.

Curtin and Chifley were born into Irish Catholic families. But Curtin became disillusioned with the Church at a young age, joined the Salvos for a while but tired of them as well. Chifley left the Catholic church to marry a Protestant woman. Curtin also married a Protestant.

Whitlam and Hawke both non-believing ex-Protestants I think.

Fisher was Scottish. Hughes was Welsh. Watson was born in a Catholic country (Chile) but I don't think he was one...

As for Rudd, he's an ex-Catholic who apparently styles himself as a "non-denominational Christian". He attends an Anglican Church; his wife's denomination.

There's only been one Catholic PM on the conservative side of politics: Joe Lyons. A Labor defector.

 

[medusala]

As for enlightening you, I'm not sure about state Premiers, but I'll have a run through all the Labor PMs...

I had the impression that Hawke was the first (could well be wrong). I think premiers managed to make it to the 80s as well.

Here in NSW, six of the last seven state Liberal leaders have been Catholics.

And what a great state the NSW libs are in.

As for Turnbull I thought he was a protestant (unlike seemingly the vast majority of republican supporters).

Edit: I see he is one of those, that voluntarily demoted themselves to Gods 2nd XV.

Wont matter, he wont get to be PM

 

[Contra Mundum]

The DLP is dead. The micks have a home again in the ALP.



Someone could probably enlighten me but I believe until not that long ago every ALP premier and PM had been a Catholic (and conversely very few had ever led the Libs).

The link is still there.

Rudd is a major league God botherer. His hero is allegedly Bonhoeffer.

Have a look at the shadow ministry - the Mannix vision is complete micks dominate both front benches and the High Court

 

[Richo83]

I had the impression that Hawke was the first (could well be wrong). I think premiers managed to make it to the 80s as well.



And what a great state the NSW libs are in.

As for Turnbull I thought he was a protestant (unlike seemingly the vast majority of republican supporters).

Edit: I see he is one of those, that voluntarily demoted themselves to Gods 2nd XV.

Wont matter, he wont get to be PM

NSW is not stuffed because it has moved to the Catholic side (they aren't ALL bad you know) it's stuffed because of incompetence and poor policy, something found in every political affiliation.

Does it matter what religious affiliation Turnbull is if he has good policies? Anyone?

 

[Contra Mundum]

NSW is not stuffed because it has moved to the Catholic side (they aren't ALL bad you know) it's stuffed because of incompetence and poor policy, something found in every political affiliation.

Does it matter what religious affiliation Turnbull is if he has good policies? Anyone?

This is surprising Richo - you don't think that David Clarke's aggressive branch stacking, taking over the State Executive and blocking pre-selection of secularists has had an effect on the NSW party - Brogden would have shat it in if he had've been leader at the last State Election - he was not their because of David Clarke

 

[Richo83]

This is surprising Richo - you don't think that David Clarke's aggressive branch stacking, taking over the State Executive and blocking pre-selection of secularists has had an effect on the NSW party - Brogden would have shat it in if he had've been leader at the last State Election - he was not their because of David Clarke

But the way I read med's post was that because they are run by Catholics, they are stuffed (IMO med wouldn't like the Catholic's leftist economic policy, which leads me to believe that he thinks Catholic influence in the Liberals is a bad thing) however, the thing you've described could've happened if they were over-run by zealot protestant as well. Let me tell you, there's a fair share of protestant Clarkes in this world as well. My point is that both Catholics and protestant groups create problems (in some cases they are very good, a person like Tim Costello would be great for Australian politics) not just Catholics.

 

[Contra Mundum]

But the way I read med's post was that because they are run by Catholics, they are stuffed (IMO med wouldn't like the Catholic's leftist economic policy, which leads me to believe that he thinks Catholic influence in the Liberals is a bad thing) however, the thing you've described could've happened if they were over-run by zealot protestant as well. Let me tell you, there's a fair share of protestant Clarkes in this world as well. My point is that both Catholics and protestant groups create problems (in some cases they are very good, a person like Tim Costello would be great for Australian politics) not just Catholics.

Yeh the bizarre alliance between Jensen and Pell is evidence that these medieval weirdos don't have to get around in frocks!

 

[jo172]

As a Christian and a (small L) Liberal nutjobs like this really piss me off.

While this evangelical pap for the idiots works in America all it serves to do is piss off the majority of Australians.

If the Liberal party goes down this path they'll never win another election.

 

[Contra Mundum]

As a Christian and a (small L) Liberal nutjobs like this really piss me off.

While this evangelical pap for the idiots works in America all it serves to do is piss off the majority of Australians.

If the Liberal party goes down this path they'll never win another election.

I am a practising Catholic mate and it alarms me - it was really depressing when the media saw fit to show both Howard and Rudd coming out of church after the election - I can't remember that ever happenning before - its starting to matter

 

[evo]

Mrs Rudd must be finding it ever harder to squeeze through that damn needle's eye these days.

 

[Qsaint]

Yeh the bizarre alliance between Jensen and Pell is evidence that these medieval weirdos don't have to get around in frocks!

Not Bizarre the High Church will go back to the Bishop of Rome as long as he can be Catholic enough for them. Jensen is probably the last of the Empire Church, Jeruselem Singing Arch Bishops

 

[evo]

I don't keep up with the religious goss.Is Jensen a High Churcher?

 

[skipper kelly]

Mrs Rudd must be finding it ever harder to squeeze through that damn needle's eye these days.

He bought the company that makes the needles.

 

[evo]

He bought the company that makes the needles.

Then the world is as it should be.

 

[skipper kelly]

Then the world is as it should be.

Oh, my mistake. You said Mrs not Mr

She already owned the company.

 

[Qsaint]

I don't keep up with the religious goss.Is Jensen a High Churcher?

Sort of

He is an evangelical and right of Atilla the Hun, he is anti Catholic basically because they are not Bible Based. But he seems to be going the High Church Route, he certainly seems to take the High Church position on the Anglican church having a special place in the Commonwealth

 

[Richo83]

Yeh the bizarre alliance between Jensen and Pell is evidence that these medieval weirdos don't have to get around in frocks!

It's a sad day for Australian christianity when those two lead the brigade. Funny thing is, these men represent none of the views of Jesus, forgiveness, fairness, decency, socialism, anti-dogmatism etc.