Analysis Are we capable of changing direction - now?

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Sep 22, 2011
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So... the season is done . The last three losses have done us - North, Richmond, Geelong, broken up by a fool's gold win over the hapless Lions. Three middle of the road teams that you simply have to beat if you're going to be top 4.

I have little doubt the club was aiming for top 4 this year. And to be honest... fair enough. Two 7th places finishes in a row makes it a reasonable goal. But it's gone pear-shaped, increasingly so over the last month.

I think even if we somehow turned it all around now and went on a run - which isn't going to happen - at best we'd be 7th or 8th again. Which isn't going to challenge for a flag. You're just making up the numbers and boosting the league coffers with an extra elimination final.

We can blame injury, we can blame ASAGA fatigue, we can blame selection, we can blame lack of a preseason, we can blame many things... reality is its a combination of all of them and more. But after the last three weeks, I don't think anybody can seriously suggest we're any hope whatsoever of making the top 4. Which means we're not any hope whatsoever of challenging for the flag.

So if we're not in the flag race, what are we gonna do?

I can completely see us paddling along, getting a few wins, a few unexpected wins, a lot of losses and eeking out an 8th - 12th place finish.

Even when we get a few injured players back, with the few weeks into take them to hit their straps, the season will be done anyway.
As a club, do we have the balls to bite the bullet and go for the longer term?

The biggest consideration is obviously the ongoing WADA garbage. At this point I don't think we have any choice but to carry on assuming there'll be no penalties. That's the only rational course - ASADA didn't have s**t and neither do WADA. We can continue here in the worlds greatest holding pattern, treading water, or attack for the future.

When you think about it, it's a no brainer. Even when this group does have this bullshit out of the way, have they shown anything to suggest they can win a flag? We've all been excited by the odd huge win they've pulled out of the box over the last couple of years, but it - still - hasn't led to any consistency. For example, we knocked off Hawthorn, and have been pretty poor since. It's like being teased a couple of times a season; and we have to be smart enough to not fall for it.

As a club are we able to be honest enough to admit that and do a bit of list massaging? We obviously don't need a wholesale rebuild, but will we be able to change direction slightly?

On the other hand, should the unthinkable happen and we lose our senior core for an extended period, again us having played the kids can only serve us better.

So I think we have to do it - use the rest of if this season to get as many games as possible into both Merretts, Ashby, Edwards, Browne, Kavanagh, Langford, Laverde, Gleeson, Dalgliesh, Hams and Fantasia. We need to know which ones can play, and get games into those who can.

The thing about it is, its a challenge for the whole club...

Can the senior players accept this and not throw the toys out of the cot?

Can the club make these harsh calls, for example on somebody like Winderlich, who was told to play on - but now finds himself in a position where the club playing him really doesn't achieve anything, and maybe deprives a kid of development?

Can Hird make these calls for the good of the club, knowing it'll hurt his results and strong relationships with the players?

Can the Board communicate this approach clearly to the members so that they understand and feel onboard the process? Then absorb the pressure that comes with poorer performance and not let it affect their judgment of Hird etc?

Can the members cop a younger team being not as competitive and not sook up and leave empty seats?

Basically, can everybody - all these parties - put the long term health of the club above their own interests for now?

It just seems like the only only logical path to take for the rest of 2015 - but are we capable?
 
There's a lot questions there..but basically until the wada issue is settled we are pretty much buggered. The players have lost faith and its all unraveling before our very eyes unfortunately..
 

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We shall how the team responds in the next few weeks if it's more of the same like last night then yeah.
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The Freo game sealed it for me. Sitting up high looking down at us running around like demented chooks with no structure and panic disposals made me realise we have to review our entire list now...not next year, now!
 
Problem is that of all the young players mentioned there not many of them really excite me and I don't see them being stars of the competition in the future. And given some of our real good players are getting on it's real concerning. No genuine key position players on that list also.
 
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The Freo game sealed it for me. Sitting up high looking down at us running around like demented chooks with no structure and panic disposals made me realise we have to review our entire list now...not next year, now!
Funnily enough, it was the Carlton game for mine. We lost intensity after the Hawks game.
It was far worse on Anzac Day. Freo was terrible. Saints frustrating, Roos and Tigers disappointing and then the Cats game was the culmination of our issues boiling over. Its hard to know what they are though.

1-Kav has to stay in. He is great cover for Watson/Myers. And when they return, i would keep him in. Looks like a decent inside mid.
2-The game requires pace. When Zaka is back, Fantasia, Zaka, Colyer & Dalgleish should be used to give us runners. At the moment we don't have enough players to run together.
3-Gwilt, Chapman, Dempsey, Ambrose, Howlett - they are cover for injuries/rest.
4-Melksham - I like the pressure he can put around the ball, but we really need to find a role for him. He isn't a classy ball user, he isn't quick, he isn't big around the contest.
5-Pears & Carlisle - While the hawks and eagles games are stiff to bring Pears back, i think we need to start experimenting with Pears at FF/CHF and slip Carlisle into defence. I'd love to see both on our list in 2016 in these positions. Pears if his body can stand up and Carlisle if he commits to us. Send Pears to FF, don't expect much from him other than to get touch and confidence in his body back over the last part of the season. Tell Carlisle he can go back to what he does best. And if he'd like to stay, thats where he is playing.

Backline;
Baguley Carlisle Hooker
Hibberd Hurley Dalgleish
-Dal for pace. Carlisle where he plays best.

Forward line;
Stanton Daniher Fantasia
Langford Pears Cooney
-Stanton for a bit running and leading to space. Is clever enough and kicks for goal decent enough.

Midfield;
Wings - Zaka & Colyer. Fantasia, Hibberd and Dalgleish to join the run from the flanks. O'Brien, Browne, Laverde & Edwards for versatility off the bench.
Engine room - Watson, Heppell, Goddard, Kavanagh, Myers.
Would be good to add another classy midfielder, but i have hope Kav, Merrett and Laverde will be that.

Ruck;
Who knows. This is a pressing need.
McKernan isn't the answer. He competes at the state level but isn't AFL quality. adelaide persisted and failed. I don't mind him on the list as a 4th option, but not to rely on him
It's concerning Giles hasn't been able to step up while Belly is struggling.
Id give Bellchambers the chance to capture the form again, because he is the best option we have.
Come seasons end though, we have 2 targets.
1x starter ruck. Leuenberger, Nicholls, Smith, even a move for Tippett would be worth the effort to pry him away.
1x backup ruck. If it isn't Bellchambers, find one.
1x project ruck. Idea is to land a kid, and develop them to be second ruck option. I like Reilly O'Brien at the crows.
 
We will beat West Coast, admit it, you all feel it.
It's just part of the script.
Narrative is ripe for a win over the hawks again.

If we go 4-8, we then run into the Saints (who pushed us and are looking ok), Melbourne (we know how that ends), North (leaving the country for that one). If we're 4-11, season is a disaster. 5-10 is poor. 6-9 going into Port, Dogs, Giants and Crows (only Giants away).

Then GCS away, and the Pies and Tigers.

Basically, we have no easy games coming up.
 
To be a great team you need great players. We fistpump and gloat when we land Zach Merrett (gun) with Pick 26, but it means stuff all when Sydney are landing Luke Parker with Pick 40.

To become a great team we are going to have nail heaps of picks, trade ruthlessly and exploit free agency. McKenna's development is really promising so he's basically a free hit, if he becomes best 22 that'll be one of the small victories we'll need in order to be a great team.
 
Mini rebuild starting now.

Fletch and Chappy retire immediately. Cooney & Winderlich to rotate sub and forward when kids are sore. After we talked Winderlich out of retirement it'd be hard to talk him back into it!

Defense :

Hurley, Hooker, Hibberd, Baguley mainstays. Dempsey was pretty good last night and is yet to turn 28. I still think he has good football in him but I'd rotate a kid through this year. Gleeson is not up to it at the moment and needs to put on size and another pre season. I'd go Ashby for the next 6 weeks.

I'd love to have Carlilse play back but if he's leaving then Gwilt stays and plays the third tall.

Midfield - Heppell, Watson, Myers, Colyer, Zaka core. All other spots up for grabs. Play Browne instead of Stanton. Zerrett keep on playing more midfield. Howlett not up to it needs to play VFL and break glass in case of emergency player. One more kid to rotate through till the end of the year - Jackson Merrett.

Forward - Daniher, Ambrose + resting ruck. Winderlich + Fantasia, Langford, Laverde rotating through playing 6-10 games.

Ruck - Whoever is fit + McKernan. Best we've got until draft/trade time.

This way we are injecting another kid in the back half. Another 1 or 2 through the midfield and another 1 or 2 forward.

I don't hold out much hope for Kav, Dalgleish, NOB, Edwards or Hams. They have some talent but don't think it'll translate to AFL.

The rebuild starts with our pedestrian midfield.
 
Mini rebuild starting now.

Fletch and Chappy retire immediately. Cooney & Winderlich to rotate sub and forward when kids are sore. After we talked Winderlich out of retirement it'd be hard to talk him back into it!

Defense :

Hurley, Hooker, Hibberd, Baguley mainstays. Dempsey was pretty good last night and is yet to turn 28. I still think he has good football in him but I'd rotate a kid through this year. Gleeson is not up to it at the moment and needs to put on size and another pre season. I'd go Ashby for the next 6 weeks.

I'd love to have Carlilse play back but if he's leaving then Gwilt stays and plays the third tall.

Midfield - Heppell, Watson, Myers, Colyer, Zaka core. All other spots up for grabs. Play Browne instead of Stanton. Zerrett keep on playing more midfield. Howlett not up to it needs to play VFL and break glass in case of emergency player. One more kid to rotate through till the end of the year - Jackson Merrett.

Forward - Daniher, Ambrose + resting ruck. Winderlich + Fantasia, Langford, Laverde rotating through playing 6-10 games.

Ruck - Whoever is fit + McKernan. Best we've got until draft/trade time.

This way we are injecting another kid in the back half. Another 1 or 2 through the midfield and another 1 or 2 forward.

I don't hold out much hope for Kav, Dalgleish, NOB, Edwards or Hams. They have some talent but don't think it'll translate to AFL.

The rebuild starts with our pedestrian midfield.
I was quite impressed with Kav last night - hope he gets more opportunities. Would like to see Edwards in senior team before we make any decisions.
 

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I feel like we may all be panicking.

Things are not as bad as they seem. The list is not as bad as it is being made out to be. Watching our VFL side this year when I have been able to has been very enjoyable, since they play a Jennifer Hawkins brand of footy compared to our firsts' Susan Boyle style.

Our AFL side can and should still make finals, which i suspect more people will agree with me about after our bye.

As for the off-season, there's some fairly obvious retirements in the wings, some fairly obvious delistings to happen, and then we can look to bring as many young players as we need. The fact that everyone keeps saying this isn't a great draft will probably give us a good chance to get more picks into it if we think other clubs/"experts" are wrong. Drafts are funny things, as who has it all together by 18?

Carlisle re-signing would be nice. Bellchambers either a) coming good at some stage when fit and in form, or b) somehow being signed up on a massive contract by someone so we get a first rounder for him, would be pretty sweet. WADA should have the fork sunk into them some time before the start next season. It's not all bad.


..Jks, we're totally munted.
 
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To be a great team you need great players. We fistpump and gloat when we land Zach Merrett (gun) with Pick 26, but it means stuff all when Sydney are landing Luke Parker with Pick 40.

To become a great team we are going to have nail heaps of picks, trade ruthlessly and exploit free agency. McKenna's development is really promising so he's basically a free hit, if he becomes best 22 that'll be one of the small victories we'll need in order to be a great team.
Pears, Carlisle, Hooker in 09 was about our best draft.
2010 we shot ourselves in the foot. Should have gone McGlynn and JPK for 16 and the Carlisle pick, instead of Williams. I don't know what the Williams thinking was.
Parker's at 40 are rare breeds.
We have Hooker & Gleeson.

And Fantasia, O'Brien, Browne as some of our other later picks. We just haven't developed these guys and played them at AFL level yet.

Since 2008, the steal 3rd rd+ picks have been: Sloane, Puopolo, Tom McDonald, Lachie Neale, and possibly Gregson.
Not a lot really in 7 drafts.
 
I feel like we may all be panicking.

Things are not as bad as they seem. The list is not as bad as it is being made out to be. Watching our VFL side this hear when I have been able to has been very enjoyable, since they play a Jennifer Hawkins brand of footy compared to our firsts' Susan Boyle style.

Our AFL side can and should still make finals, which i suspect more people will agree with me about after our bye.

As for the off-season, there's some fairly obvious retirements in the wings, some fairly obvious delistings to happen, and then we can look to bring as many young players as we need. The fact that everyone keeps saying this isn't a great draft will probably give us a good chance to get more picks into it if we think other clubs/"experts" are wrong. Drafts are funny things, as who has it all together by 18?

Carlisle re-signing would be nice. Bellchambers either a) coming good at some stage when fit and in form, or b) somehow being signed up on a massive contract by someone so we get a first rounder for him, would be pretty sweet. WADA should have the fork sunk into them some time before the start next season. It's not all bad.


..Jks, we're totally munted.

I'm not in a panic, I just want the club to be realistic about the team and use the season as best we can - not waste it.

We're not going to win the flag this year. We don't need to persist and tread water until the end of the season to know that. We know it now.

So let's use it. Maybe lose a few more games, but see if these kids can go. We're a long way from the top 4, which is where you need to be to challenge for a flag. We can no longer judge the team on the odd brilliant performance against top opposition that they seem to get up for. We have to look at what they're producing every week. And it's not top 4, it's nowhere near it.
 
Would you be willing to trade Melksham?
Yes, but we can't do it all this off-season. Best way to do it is over 2-3 off-season's.

Chapman, Stanton, Winderlich, Goddard, O'Brien, Cooney, Dempsey, Pears, Steinberg, Fletcher, Kommer, Hocking, Howlett, Gwilt are all distinct possibilities to be gone over the next two years. That's not even factoring in players leaving (Carlisle). The first port of call in regards to this group is re-signing BJ and Stants to ease the burden a little bit. Even then, 12 players in 2 years is a lot. We'll need to target 2-for-1 deals like we did with Edwards and Aylett.
 
I'm not in a panic, I just want the club to be realistic about the team and use the season as best we can - not waste it.

We're not going to win the flag this year. We don't need to persist and tread water until the end of the season to know that. We know it now.

So let's use it. Maybe lose a few more games, but see if these kids can go. We're a long way from the top 4, which is where you need to be to challenge for a flag. We can no longer judge the team on the odd brilliant performance against top opposition that they seem to get up for. We have to look at what they're producing every week. And it's not top 4, it's nowhere near it.
I get what you're saying, and something needs to change. Whether making Kav wait to be selected was a move to make him "earn his spot" more or not, it is insane it's taken this long for him to get a run considering injuries to Myers and Hocking and how much we've struggled with contested ball since round 3. Something the club is struggling with is the idea that picking a team to win and playing young players like Browne and Edwards are not mutually exclusive.
 
Find a forward strategy that can capitalise on the absolute mountain of ball we win...profit.

There's no reason to anything super radical, it wouldn't really get us anywhere if we did
 
wa
Funnily enough, it was the Carlton game for mine. We lost intensity after the Hawks game.
It was far worse on Anzac Day. Freo was terrible. Saints frustrating, Roos and Tigers disappointing and then the Cats game was the culmination of our issues boiling over. Its hard to know what they are though.

1-Kav has to stay in. He is great cover for Watson/Myers. And when they return, i would keep him in. Looks like a decent inside mid.
2-The game requires pace. When Zaka is back, Fantasia, Zaka, Colyer & Dalgleish should be used to give us runners. At the moment we don't have enough players to run together.
3-Gwilt, Chapman, Dempsey, Ambrose, Howlett - they are cover for injuries/rest.
4-Melksham - I like the pressure he can put around the ball, but we really need to find a role for him. He isn't a classy ball user, he isn't quick, he isn't big around the contest.
5-Pears & Carlisle - While the hawks and eagles games are stiff to bring Pears back, i think we need to start experimenting with Pears at FF/CHF and slip Carlisle into defence. I'd love to see both on our list in 2016 in these positions. Pears if his body can stand up and Carlisle if he commits to us. Send Pears to FF, don't expect much from him other than to get touch and confidence in his body back over the last part of the season. Tell Carlisle he can go back to what he does best. And if he'd like to stay, thats where he is playing.

Backline;
Baguley Carlisle Hooker
Hibberd Hurley Dalgleish
-Dal for pace. Carlisle where he plays best.

Forward line;
Stanton Daniher Fantasia
Langford Pears Cooney
-Stanton for a bit running and leading to space. Is clever enough and kicks for goal decent enough.

Midfield;
Wings - Zaka & Colyer. Fantasia, Hibberd and Dalgleish to join the run from the flanks. O'Brien, Browne, Laverde & Edwards for versatility off the bench.
Engine room - Watson, Heppell, Goddard, Kavanagh, Myers.
Would be good to add another classy midfielder, but i have hope Kav, Merrett and Laverde will be that.

Ruck;
Who knows. This is a pressing need.
McKernan isn't the answer. He competes at the state level but isn't AFL quality. adelaide persisted and failed. I don't mind him on the list as a 4th option, but not to rely on him
It's concerning Giles hasn't been able to step up while Belly is struggling.
Id give Bellchambers the chance to capture the form again, because he is the best option we have.
Come seasons end though, we have 2 targets.
1x starter ruck. Leuenberger, Nicholls, Smith, even a move for Tippett would be worth the effort to pry him away.
1x backup ruck. If it isn't Bellchambers, find one.
1x project ruck. Idea is to land a kid, and develop them to be second ruck option. I like Reilly O'Brien at the crows.


Watched the VFL game on sat. Dalgleish did nothing a hundred point win... not a good sign
 

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