Analysis Back to The Future, Re-Developing Victoria Park.

[TradeDraft]

Hopefully they can get a Electronic Scoreboard that Actually Works

 

[Chameleon75]

I hope you are correct, but I'm not sure. Yarra Council own Vic Park, it is not Crown land. Unlike the MCG which is Crown land, managed by the MCC Trust as the Committee of Management. In that case, the State does have rights over the stadium, but at Vic Park?

I agree with you about the polictical persuasion of the Yarra Council. Left wing, Green, even a Socialist Left councillor who still talks about 'Imperialism'. You'd think and hope they'd be open to supporting a women's team based at the old ground. But then, they might also be opposed to the hyper masculine and bullying culture which - superficially at least - appears to have prevailed in the AFL over many years. Eddie has been aligned with that, even if its just a perception, and if he (or a representive of our club) goes begging to Yarra (which I believe he has done in the past) he might get a poor reception.

I was reading a heritage report in support of a planning application for a site within the original Vic Park estate, it gave a bit of a history into the estate which prompted me to do some snooping (I’m a nerd like that), probably nothing your not aware of, so forgive me if I get some of the details wrong I’m going off memory.

Your correct Vic Park isn’t crown land. All crown land is government owned but not all government owned land is crown land, it comes down to freehold title, and Vic Park has a freehold title in favour of council.

Freehold was granted in the 1800’s for use as a cattle station, from there it was sold to Sydney developers who never developed it but sold it to a guy in the UK, Trenerry (hence Trenerry crescent). The original estate was something like 100 ha, Vic Park is a small portion. Trenerry “gifted” Vic Park to the citizens of collingwood, in actuality it was sold to council by way of him exchanging the land and council constructing the roads and infrastructure for his estate (nice deal if you can get it). But interestingly the transfer placed a covenant on the title limiting its use to recreational and preventing the council from selling it to private interests.

Fast forward to 1990 and the council was looking to sell part of the ground to the club and lease the rest, but the covenant prevented this so the state government passed the Victoria Park land act to extinguish the covenant. nonetheless agreement was never reached as we all know and here we are, but you are correct Vic Park has a freehold title owned by council so is not crown land.

 

[Vicky Park]

I was reading a heritage report in support of a planning application for a site within the original Vic Park estate, it gave a bit of a history into the estate which prompted me to do some snooping (I’m a nerd like that), probably nothing your not aware of, so forgive me if I get some of the details wrong I’m going off memory.

Your correct Vic Park isn’t crown land. All crown land is government owned but not all government owned land is crown land, it comes down to freehold title, and Vic Park has a freehold title in favour of council.

Freehold was granted in the 1800’s for use as a cattle station, from there it was sold to Sydney developers who never developed it but sold it to a guy in the UK, Trenerry (hence Trenerry crescent). The original estate was something like 100 ha, Vic Park is a small portion. Trenerry “gifted” Vic Park to the citizens of collingwood, in actuality it was sold to council by way of him exchanging the land and council constructing the roads and infrastructure for his estate (nice deal if you can get it). But interestingly the transfer placed a covenant on the title limiting its use to recreational and preventing the council from selling it to private interests.

Fast forward to 1990 and the council was looking to sell part of the ground to the club and lease the rest, but the covenant prevented this so the state government passed the Victoria Park land act to extinguish the covenant. nonetheless agreement was never reached as we all know and here we are, but you are correct Vic Park has a freehold title owned by council so is not crown land.

Thank you for that. The ownership of VP has been an issue throughout our club's history, and is still coming back to bite us. It infuriates me that we cant base our AFLW and VFLW women's teams there and our VFL guys on a more permanent basis. Maybe its in the pipeline, with the funding discussed above.

This site is a good one for the history of VP. It has some great photos and film footage:

http://www.victoriapark.net.au/index.html

 

[jmac70]

Thank you for that. The ownership of VP has been an issue throughout our club's history, and is still coming back to bite us. It infuriates me that we cant base our AFLW and VFLW women's teams there and our VFL guys on a more permanent basis. Maybe its in the pipeline, with the funding discussed above.

This site is a good one for the history of VP. It has some great photos and film footage:

http://www.victoriapark.net.au/index.html

If anyone can make this happen, it’s Ed.

 

[Vicky Park]

If anyone can make this happen, it’s Ed.

I know jmac, and if he does I wil take back everything negative I've ever said about him.

I'd pay to see Eddie in a room with the ultra-left Yarra Council, 'negotiating' to get us back into VP on a more permanent basis.

 

[sr36]

I know jmac, and if he does I wil take back everything negative I've ever said about him.

I'd pay to see Eddie in a room with the ultra-left Yarra Council, 'negotiating' to get us back into VP on a more permanent basis.

I reckon Ed is probably the worst person to make this happen. They're going to say no simply on the principle of it being Eddie asking

 

[sideswipe]

I was reading a heritage report in support of a planning application for a site within the original Vic Park estate, it gave a bit of a history into the estate which prompted me to do some snooping (I’m a nerd like that), probably nothing your not aware of, so forgive me if I get some of the details wrong I’m going off memory.

Your correct Vic Park isn’t crown land. All crown land is government owned but not all government owned land is crown land, it comes down to freehold title, and Vic Park has a freehold title in favour of council.

Freehold was granted in the 1800’s for use as a cattle station, from there it was sold to Sydney developers who never developed it but sold it to a guy in the UK, Trenerry (hence Trenerry crescent). The original estate was something like 100 ha, Vic Park is a small portion. Trenerry “gifted” Vic Park to the citizens of collingwood, in actuality it was sold to council by way of him exchanging the land and council constructing the roads and infrastructure for his estate (nice deal if you can get it). But interestingly the transfer placed a covenant on the title limiting its use to recreational and preventing the council from selling it to private interests.

Fast forward to 1990 and the council was looking to sell part of the ground to the club and lease the rest, but the covenant prevented this so the state government passed the Victoria Park land act to extinguish the covenant. nonetheless agreement was never reached as we all know and here we are, but you are correct Vic Park has a freehold title owned by council so is not crown land.

nice one. now I remember this. All land notionally starts off as Crown land (can be subject to Native Title) and remains so until it is alienated from the Crown by way of freehold title or lease. Vicky Park I was wr wr wrong.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I reckon Ed is probably the worst person to make this happen. They're going to say no simply on the principle of it being Eddie asking

What other things have been knocked back solely on the basis Ed asked for it?

 

[PepperFace]

I cant understand how it couldnt be made into a little niche ground that holds between 20-30k. It would be rocking - obsviously we would only play against non-vic teams and s**t clubs like stkilda! The Holden Centre has set us back so far....it is rubbish

 

[sr36]

What other things have been knocked back solely on the basis Ed asked for it?

No idea. Things aren't usually knocked back solely on a personality, but it does play a significant part in the likelihood of successful negotiation.

I'm not having a go at Eddie. I reckon he's fantastic. But, we all know that Eddie's charismatic bombastic reputation and style is not to everyone's taste. I reckon his style is perfect for dealing with footy folk, but Eddie wasn't a great match at Channel 9. I also suspect that Eddie and a left-leaning council who hold the power on this one would also not be a great match and that his reputation would mean that he'd walk in the room at a disadvantage.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

What other things have been knocked back solely on the basis Ed asked for it?

Sex

Not every babe at Chasers or The Tunnel was enamoured by him

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I reckon Ed is probably the worst person to make this happen. They're going to say no simply on the principle of it being Eddie asking

Probably correct.

 

[jmac70]

I reckon Ed is probably the worst person to make this happen. They're going to say no simply on the principle of it being Eddie asking

No offence but that’s a pretty simplistic view.

 

[sr36]

No offence but that’s a pretty simplistic view.

Don't worry I'm not offended. Beyond pretty, I'd go with extremely

 

[Carringbush2010]

I never quite get the whole heritage listing thing.
Something dilapidated or not very old can be heritage listed. Very hitch pitch.
Eg VFL park some part of it is listed?,why.
Victoria Park at say 65,000 stadium could serve football well.
Really a third stadium in Melbourne with 50,000 to 65,000 somewhere would be ideal.
What about the show grounds?
Parking and transport are terrific.

My idea of ideal is that we train there. I don't think the location - being in the middle of inner suburbia would not serve well as a third stadium in a logistical sense (imagine 65K moving in and out of there!) and I'm more than certain the owners (council) would in total opposition.

Being the soul heartland of Collingwood I'd like the teams to train there - even though that will never happen.

 

[Mukesh]

No offence but that’s a pretty simplistic view.

Hhmmm this is a local council we’re talking about... not known for their overwhelming sophistication..

 

[TheSierBear]

I know jmac, and if he does I wil take back everything negative I've ever said about him.

I'd pay to see Eddie in a room with the ultra-left Yarra Council, 'negotiating' to get us back into VP on a more permanent basis.

So in a nutshell, we would never be able to live the dream of having a redeveloped Vic Park because of a bunch of shallow, SJW's who don't want something in their backyard that just happens to have a strong prominence of white masculinity!!! And Eddie is the White Staight Male King after all his bad gaffes', makes my blood boil that SJW's would ruin what could be a dream for many.

Left wing? Just bullshit identity politics, if they were truly left wing they'd have respect for Collingwood and what it was and stood for in the depression, but they wouldn't have a bar of it. fricken' SJW's the bane of the left. These people are mostly full of s**t.

 

[jmac70]

My idea of ideal is that we train there. I don't think the location - being in the middle of inner suburbia would not serve well as a third stadium in a logistical sense (imagine 65K moving in and out of there!) and I'm more than certain the owners (council) would in total opposition.

Being the soul heartland of Collingwood I'd like the teams to train there - even though that will never happen.

It will never happen because it’s a terrible idea. We already have an elite training facility a stones throw from the MCG.

 

[jmac70]

So in a nutshell, we would never be able to live the dream of having a redeveloped Vic Park because of a bunch of shallow, SJW's who don't want something in their backyard that just happens to have a strong prominence of white masculinity!!! And Eddie is the White Staight Male King after all his bad gaffes', makes my blood boil that SJW's would ruin what could be a dream for many.

Left wing? Just bullshit identity politics, if they were truly left wing they'd have respect for Collingwood and what it was and stood for in the depression, but they wouldn't have a bar of it. fricken' SJW's the bane of the left. These people are mostly full of s**t.

There is no chance of Vic Park becoming a stadium again. Rates payers would never allow it.

 

[whiskeytown]

So in a nutshell, we would never be able to live the dream of having a redeveloped Vic Park because of a bunch of shallow, SJW's who don't want something in their backyard that just happens to have a strong prominence of white masculinity!!! And Eddie is the White Staight Male King after all his bad gaffes', makes my blood boil that SJW's would ruin what could be a dream for many.

Left wing? Just bullshit identity politics, if they were truly left wing they'd have respect for Collingwood and what it was and stood for in the depression, but they wouldn't have a bar of it. fricken' SJW's the bane of the left. These people are mostly full of s**t.

In the recent state budget 2million has been set aside for updating the facilities at Vic Park so it can adequately host AFLW...

So I think it's actually a case of the identity obsessives helping win approval (and state govt money) to host more AFLW and VFLW games at Vic Park.

Whether our men's VFL team plays more games there remains to be seen. I hope it leads to VFLW & VFL double headers. But given the shambles that is VFL fixturing, I won't hold my breath.

 

[Vicky Park]

So in a nutshell, we would never be able to live the dream of having a redeveloped Vic Park because of a bunch of shallow, SJW's who don't want something in their backyard that just happens to have a strong prominence of white masculinity!!! And Eddie is the White Staight Male King after all his bad gaffes', makes my blood boil that SJW's would ruin what could be a dream for many.

Left wing? Just bullshit identity politics, if they were truly left wing they'd have respect for Collingwood and what it was and stood for in the depression, but they wouldn't have a bar of it. fricken' SJW's the bane of the left. These people are mostly full of s**t.

Not sure how to reply to this MB. But being a resident of Yarra, and having professional dealings with the Yarra Council, my view is that AFL footy would not be a popular topic at Council meetings. I agree, they should have some feeling for the great club that emerged and grew out of the badlands of Abbotsford. But TBH I dont think they give a stuff.

Case in point. Some years ago when Captain Blood, Jack Dyer, died, it was suggested at a Council meeting that Yarra erect a statue of the great Richmond man. The story I heard is that the (then) Yarra mayor said - who's Jack Dyer?

To balance this, they do put up banners on the respective town halls when Collingwood or Richmond are playing in grand finals.

 

[TheSierBear]

Not sure how to reply to this MB. But being a resident of Yarra, and having professional dealings with the Yarra Council, my view is that AFL footy would not be a popular topic at Council meetings. I agree, they should have some feeling for the great club that emerged and grew out of the badlands of Abbotsford. But TBH I dont think they give a stuff.

Case in point. Some years ago when Captain Blood, Jack Dyer, died, it was suggested at a Council meeting that Yarra erect a statue of the great Richmond man. The story I heard is that the (then) Yarra mayor said - who's Jack Dyer?

To balance this, they do put up banners on the respective town halls when Collingwood or Richmond are playing in grand finals.

Sorry vp but swj's in the derivative sense are sjws... That just mean highly offended and dishonest.

 

[TheSierBear]

There is no chance of Vic Park becoming a stadium again. Rates payers would never allow it.

Why wouldn't they though?

 

[jmac70]

Why wouldn't they though?

Access to the ground, parking and noise would probably be the biggest issues.

 

[TheSierBear]

Access to the ground, parking and noise would probably be the biggest issues.

It would host say four or five games a year tops.

For a game that goes for 2 and a half hours on a weekend.