Bootsma vs. Seedsman

[Black Flag]

yes, i know they are two very different players, but both are young guys starting out at the same time for two big clubs that have a certain cult following amongst their fans.

in recent weeks both have shown a bit. seedsman if he gets the ball can unleash a penetrating kick reminiscent of nathan buckley.

bootsma doesn't have the disposal skill of seedsman, but can close down an opponent and use the ball very cleverly and with a cool head.

very early days, i know, but if you could take one of these guys for free for your team, whom would you pick?

vs.

 

[Daz]

Seedsman. I expect him to rip games apart on a wing in the not too distant future. Love his pace and skill.

 

[HARKER]

Have no idea really.

I'm liking the looks of Seedsmans abilities and I know what Bootmsa will be capable of.

Hope they both do well is the best I can offer from here, for now.

 

[lmach]

No brainer - Seedsman.

 

[HARKER]

No brainer - Seedsman.

Is that a declaration of one self or your judgement of the personnel.

 

[lmach]

Is that a declaration of one self or your judgement of the personnel.

Ha ha.

 

[biggiemediums]

Biased, Seedman for mine. Haven't seen much from Bootsma at all. Don't think he'll amount to anything. Seedsman has bursts of greatness.

 

[Seedsman_]

We need an unbiased opinion from Shawt

 

[Black Flag]

Biased, Seedman for mine. Haven't seen much from Bootsma at all. Don't think he'll amount to anything. Seedsman has bursts of greatness.

how does that work?

 

[half_back_flank]

how does that work?

Haven't seem much from, not of.

Obviously Carlton see something in him giving him games when he is built like a twig but that game on Elliott is going to take a long time to live down. He was beyond pathetic that day.

Seedsman for me.

 

[Dan]

The Seed

 

[Shawt]

We need an unbiased opinion from Shawt

A heck, I might even do it for a laugh...

Unbiased opinion

Bootsma needs more time to show what he is capable of. On the weekend, he popped up for a (pretty damn funny) contested mark and kicked a goal... not sure if it was his first, but it was a good effort. He has one or two moments, where you think he can play, but then he'll disappear for an hour and reappear just to turn the ball over 4 times in a row under pressure. The game is too quick for him when he's tired, and he gets exposed far too easily in defense. Once his confidence has been tested, he has gone back into his shell a bit from what I've seen. He is willing to throw his body in, which shows that once he settles, he'll be just fine. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a great kick, but he'll be a good option down back to pickup a difficult matchup. He can spoil, cover the ground fast enough, run off his man to push forward and get his own ball. Given time with Malthouse, he'll be fashioned into a sturdy contributor

Seedsman is showing the rest of the world, what the Bay already knew from the moment he was recruited. He is a stud. Fast, hungry, skillful and in possession of a cannon of a right foot that can make angels weep. Confidence doesn't seem to play a part in his thinking. If he's turned the ball over when trying some arsey one handed run along the boundary line, it's forgotten 2 minutes later where he'll return and try the same creative options to work the ball off half back. He is still struggling to read zones a bit with his kicks from backward of the wing, and it has hurt us a few times. He doesn't seem shy to take the kicks, even if they've gone sour, which shows he backs himself. His goal kicking ability, from a standing start 50 out is where his weapon really is though... he hasn't garnered the respect of his opposition (yet), so he can sneak in and just unload, even in a bit of traffic. At 50 games, I think Seedsman will be a midfielder, capable of either tagging a runner, or dropping back to guide the ball out of defence when things are congested. I keep hearing that he is a gun over head mark, but I'd like to see it a bit... he needs to win contests in the air one out, not just once the ball hits the deck

Bootsma next year might be a better comparison, after he's been in the system a while. Right now, Seedsman has him covered in just about all areas

This is the last time I discuss Seedsman in an unbiased manner. It actually caused me physical pain

 

[biggiemediums]

how does that work?

I am confused. How are you confused? Unless like hbf stated, did you confuse 'from' and 'of'?

 

[Black Flag]

I am confused. How are you confused? Unless like hbf stated, did you confuse 'from' and 'of'?

relax, i misread your post.

 

[white lie]

Haven't seem much from, not of.

Obviously Carlton see something in him giving him games when he is built like a twig but that game on Elliott is going to take a long time to live down. He was beyond pathetic that day.

Seedsman for me.

You're like most people and didnt pay much attention to the game that day. He rarely played on Elliott during that match but still cops the flak for it.

He's still a young kid learning the game and seems to get lost moving between the back line and the wing. Given more time and direction he will find his feet and certainly be a player. His build doesn't affect his ability at this stage, just wait and see what he can do in another year or two and an extra 10kg on him.

 

[Silvagnis]

Have no idea really.

I'm liking the looks of Seedsmans abilities and I know what Bootmsa will be capable of.

Hope they both do well is the best I can offer from here, for now.

Quick and long kicking utility like Walker who had a lot of upside as a raw country footballer. Love seeing players that skinny crack in hard.

 

[MeisterBot]

I think Bootsma will develop into a good player and contributor under Mick, maybe something like Goldsack was under Mick. But Seedsman is going to be a gun.

 

[entourage]

Seeded by the Seed.

 

[raymagoo]

Odd thread?! Like the seed! Boots will have a good unassuming career though

 

[Monkey King]

I like the look of Bootsma for such a skinny kid playing defense. Neat disposal, reads the play pretty well and his monkey arms reach some great spoils you wouldn't expect a player to reach. In this comparison though, on exposed form, I've gotta go with the other runt in Seedsman; has shown some serious glimpses in recent games.

 

[mediumsizered]

Haven't seem much from, not of.

Obviously Carlton see something in him giving him games when he is built like a twig but that game on Elliott is going to take a long time to live down. He was beyond pathetic that day.

Seedsman for me.

Dennis Armfield claimed responsibility for letting Elliott off the hook that day. I also remember Tuohy standing him for at least one of his 5 goals. One of Elliott's goals was kicked with Boots in pursuit, but that was because Armfield had actually rolled the dice & bolted forward & then got caught out on the rebound, leaving Boots to leave his opponent & try & get back to Elliott.

 

[half_back_flank]

You're like most people and didnt pay much attention to the game that day. He rarely played on Elliott during that match but still cops the flak for it.

He's still a young kid learning the game and seems to get lost moving between the back line and the wing. Given more time and direction he will find his feet and certainly be a player. His build doesn't affect his ability at this stage, just wait and see what he can do in another year or two and an extra 10kg on him.

Dennis Armfield claimed responsibility for letting Elliott off the hook that day. I also remember Tuohy standing him for at least one of his 5 goals. One of Elliott's goals was kicked with Boots in pursuit, but that was because Armfield had actually rolled the dice & bolted forward & then got caught out on the rebound, leaving Boots to leave his opponent & try & get back to Elliott.

The first three weren't on him, but the two in the last quarter (including second last one where he gave Elliott 30 metres) were on Bootsma. Boosma goes to him directly after that goal and for a player to give that much space to a bloke with three goals when he had 2 handballs and a kick for the whole game was pathetic.

But as I said, to get games when he is that size is impressive.

 

[mediumsizered]

The first three weren't on him, but the two in the last quarter (including second last one where he gave Elliott 30 metres) were on Bootsma. Boosma goes to him directly after that goal and for a player to give that much space to a bloke with three goals when he had 2 handballs and a kick for the whole game was pathetic.

But as I said, to get games when he is that size is impressive.

Yet you berated Bootsma for his game on Elliott that day, saying he was beyond pathetic, yet now you readily concede that at least Elliott's first 3 goals weren't kicked on Bootsma & the reality is, as I have already stated at least one was kicked on Tuohy as well, outside of the at least 3 that were kicked on Armfield.

And to base a defender's game on the number of possessions they have is just ridiculous. One can only assume that Nathan Brown was also beyond pathetic that day, with a return of 2 kicks & 1 handball, but most likely, in a similar vein to Bootsma, what he did defensively was probably more important than whether he picked up some cheap stats or not. You know the type of things I mean, spoils, filling space, going third man up, covering a teammate's opponent etc etc.

 

[half_back_flank]

Yet you berated Bootsma for his game on Elliott that day, saying he was beyond pathetic, yet now you readily concede that at least Elliott's first 3 goals weren't kicked on Bootsma & the reality is, as I have already stated at least one was kicked on Tuohy as well, outside of the at least 3 that were kicked on Armfield.

And to base a defender's game on the number of possessions they have is just ridiculous. One can only assume that Nathan Brown was also beyond pathetic that day, with a return of 2 kicks & 1 handball, but most likely, in a similar vein to Bootsma, what he did defensively was probably more important than whether he picked up some cheap stats or not. You know the type of things I mean, spoils, filling space, going third man up, covering a teammate's opponent etc etc.

Brown didn't let his opponent kick two goals in the last quarter though did he, including a goal where he gave the most dangerous forward for Collingwood 30 metres. If he actually offering something offensively, you could maybe forgive him for standing a couple of metres off Elliott given that Carlton were down 3 points deep in the last, but not 30 metres.

 

[white lie]

The first three weren't on him, but the two in the last quarter (including second last one where he gave Elliott 30 metres) were on Bootsma. Boosma goes to him directly after that goal and for a player to give that much space to a bloke with three goals when he had 2 handballs and a kick for the whole game was pathetic.

But as I said, to get games when he is that size is impressive.

Elliot's goals that game were obviously a big talking point on the Carlton board. Below is the outcome after one member actually took the time to look at it in depth, as well as On The Couch showing a lot of good footage of what actually went on.

Just because he went to him after the fact does not mean he was on him during the event. How often to players rotate positions and opponents, especially immediately after a goal has been scored?

Coaches never know who is on who most of the time unless they demand or pre plan certain match ups.

However what I can confirm from "OTC" last night and re-watching parts of the game are that Bootsma was not responsible for the 5 goals he kicked. I have watch all of Elliot's goals in isolation now and here is what I discovered.

Goal 1- was when Armfield trailed him into a marking contest by 5 metres and never went and contested, by the time the centre bounce happened after the goal Tuohy was alongside him when the camera panned back to Elliot so take your pick there.

Goal 2- was when Swan won the centre break straight after half time and found an unchecked Dwyer at CHF who spotted up Elliot on a strong lead with Davies right up his clacker, great lead and kick and not alot Davies could do.

Goal 3- was when Elliot was left all alone in the forward 50 about 30 metres in the clear. Just 20 & 30 secs earlier Elliot and his opponent (Tuohy) were involved in 2 contests before there was a stoppage in the middle of the ground, after the ruck contest Harry O breaks 3 piss weak tackles and dribbles a ball forward along the ground to Elliot all on his own and he snaps an uncontested goal. Dont know what happened to Tuohy on this play, is his role to go up to the stoppage or defend his man inside 50, (I know what I would want him to do).

"OTC" showed footage of this goal from above with Paul Roo's commenting that Elliot was left alone and Laidler who was the loose man dropped back in front of Cloke and Jamison but was screaming to Mitch Robinson to pick up Elliot, guess what Mitch didn't do... Blame who, Tuohy, Laidler, Robinson or all of the above but certainly not Bootsma.

Goal 4- "OTC" showed this from above also with comments from Paul Roo's, Pies score a behind, Murphy kicks in long and wide and runs straight past Elliot who was on his own 50 metres in the clear, the ball gets to the wing and Murphy continues up to the contest and runs straight past Elliot's opponent who was Walker at this stage and says nothing to Walks, Walks never had any urgency to go and find his man once the ball had left his area and was caught ball watching. Pies win the ball on the wing and kick it forward over both Murphy and Walkers head to Elliot who is 50 metres clear inside 50 and runs into an uncontested goal. Blame Murph and/or Walker but certainly not Bootsma. Edit (watched this on replay again and impossible to tell who was on him immediately before this goal but Tuohy was with him in a contest about 40 seconds earlier but Bootsma had him at the first contest after the goal, Walker was loose man and should have picked him up being the closest at the time or organised the right match up at least)

Goal 5- Elliot lead and dived into a mark low down in the forward pocket whilst opposed to Walker who trailed him into the contest by about 5 metres and Elliot slotted a nice goal from a toughish angle. Again not Bootsma

Elliot also had another set shot late in the game going for number 6 but didn't quite make the distance, I believe that lead up mark might have been on Walker also. Edit (was on Bootsma after watching again, turned him inside out but no goal scored)

Make of that what you will but it is unfair to say that Bootsma was responsible for conceding 5 goals to Elliot. Bootsma did spend a bit of time on him in the 4th quarter but not convinced he directly conceded any goals still but did make some other mistakes.