Bottom Out?

[Artichoke]

Saw Hutchy mention it might be worth NM bottoming out for the last uncompromised draft. I tend to agree. This season is GONE IMO. What do you guys think?

 

[Harris 10]

We are in trouble this year no doubt, but its going to be a painful season if we put up the white flag now.

Out of interest what are all the concessions GC17 get?

They receive picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 in the 2010 NAB AFL Draft access to a dozen 17 year-olds not eligible for the draft.

What else do they get, I know uncontracted players but how does that work?

I did hear that if you lose an uncontracted player you get compensated, is this right?

 

[kangalover]

Even if we made the 8 this year, what would be the point of it?
No point in my opinion, because while teams like Geelong and Hawthorn are still peaking it is not a good time to be vying for a go at a premiership unless you are red hot, and we all know that is not the case, at present, with our club.

It is a good time to be developing and building a strong side ready to take on the challenge in a couple of years time after the abovementioned clubs have passed their peak and their players are getting older.
Build and develop to become the next successful team to take over the mantle from the current crop.

Take the Bulldogs for example, they are, according to experts, top 4 or higher, once again, what is the point? There is no point, because this team does not have what it takes to win a grand final, in my opinion.
All they are doing by reaching a certain level and failing to deliver is damaging their brand and in turn affecting membership growth because they are promising so much but delivering so little.

Next year is the last draft we can benefit from. It would be a shame to waste that advantage.

However in saying all of the above I in no way want to see our team deliberately bottom out.
I want to see concerted, 4 quarter efforts from our players at each game. I want to see hunger, desperation, confidence and self belief rear its head on every game day.

Losing hurts, but what hurts more, is how you lose.

 

[PokerRoo]

Even if we made the 8 this year, what would be the point of it?
No point in my opinion, because while teams like Geelong and Hawthorn are still peaking it is not a good time to be vying for a go at a premiership unless you are red hot, and we all know that is not the case, at present, with our club.

It is a good time to be developing and building a strong side ready to take on the challenge in a couple of years time after the abovementioned clubs have passed their peak and their players are getting older.
Build and develop to become the next successful team to take over the mantle from the current crop.

Take the Bulldogs for example, they are, according to experts, top 4 or higher, once again, what is the point? There is no point, because this team does not have what it takes to win a grand final, in my opinion.
All they are doing by reaching a certain level and failing to deliver is damaging their brand and in turn affecting membership growth because they are promising so much but delivering so little.

Next year is the last draft we can benefit from. It would be a shame to waste that advantage.

However in saying all of the above I in no way want to see our team deliberately bottom out.
I want to see concerted, 4 quarter efforts from our players at each game. I want to see hunger, desperation, confidence and self belief rear its head on every game day.

Losing hurts, but what hurts more, is how you lose.

I agree with what you are saying about us, no point squeezing into the 8 again, a step back to go forward is the right way to go.

But you are being very harsh on the dogs, your suggesting that they should give up because its too hard and they are never going to beat Geelong? Imagine if Hawthorn said that last year, and Brisbane on 2001? All the teams who are capable of finishing in the top 4, top 6 even should be going at it 100%, no questions asked.

 

[Pykie]

We are in trouble this year no doubt, but its going to be a painful season if we put up the white flag now.

Out of interest what are all the concessions GC17 get?

They receive picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 in the 2010 NAB AFL Draft access to a dozen 17 year-olds not eligible for the draft.

What else do they get, I know uncontracted players but how does that work?

I did hear that if you lose an uncontracted player you get compensated, is this right?

You've mentioned most of it, they get priority rights to QLD's this year as well.



The biggest one you've missed though is the age change, which comes into effect this year.


The eligible age for a draftee has been pushed back 6 months, ultimately resulting in the draft pool being slashed by a fair percantage.

Players like Jack Ziebell, Jack Watts, Steele Sidebottom etc would of all been ineligable for last years draft on the new rules.

This year still shapes as a good draft, however, next year will be an absolute cracker.


R.e: Uncontracted players; Its been rumoured to be considered a "token" type system, where a uncontracted player taken by the GC, will then be assessed through a model designed to assess his worth, i.e Age, Games played, brownlow votes, b&f finishes etc etc.
The club would then get a token (i.e a second round pick), that they could then use in one of the next 3 drafts.

I dont think this is confirmed though.

 

[Harris 10]

So should we award Urquhart his 2009 & 2010 B&f medals now to make sure we are adequately compensated?

 

[kangalover]

I agree with what you are saying about us, no point squeezing into the 8 again, a step back to go forward is the right way to go.

But you are being very harsh on the dogs, your suggesting that they should give up because its too hard and they are never going to beat Geelong? Imagine if Hawthorn said that last year, and Brisbane on 2001? All the teams who are capable of finishing in the top 4, top 6 even should be going at it 100%, no questions asked.

I never meant that the Dogs should give up,you never give up.
You have completely misinterpreted my words.

What I meant was that no matter how hard they try I just do not think they are good enough at this current time to overtake Geelong or possibly Hawthorn for a shot at the flag. However stranger things have happened.

My point being that they are playing some excellent footy and have some excellent players but at a time when their opposition are just so much stronger and tougher than them. I feel that their time could pass them by if they do not get a chance to make a real go of it this year or next.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I agree that we need to bottom out and over the next 3 years I would like to see our 1st selection being the best midfielder available.

Just hope that our members remain members during this time.

 

[roobear]

So who gets dropped if we are to bottom out? Simpson? Petrie? Hale? Rawlings? We are playing the kids already. If they get us to the finals it's a friggin bonus I reckon. Look at the bloke we got for pick 9 in the last draft.

If we are to purely base our team selections on planning for the future, the only players you could dump are Power, Simpson and Rawlings. The latter two would both be top 5 in the B&F at the moment, and are genuine leaders.

I want to see us playing decent football (any time soon would be nice), and continuing on the current development path. I will by no means consider it a waste of time if we finish top 8.

If I've just been sucked in by some Artichoke fishing, , but this thread is rot IMO

 

[AGC]

At no point should the club go out with the express objective to LOSE a match- that is disgusting and if there was ever a whiff of that i'd be incredible dissapointed. However, crisis does breed opportunity- and this is the opportunity to continue to play the kids- which we are doing. I think the most that fans can ask for is a concerted 4 quarter effort- and if we put in performances like we did against the Dogs- no doubt i'll be dissapointed- but i'll also be heartened by a strong young list.

As it stands- there are 3 standout players that can be drafted in the TOp 3- and getting our hands on one of them would definately not hurt our chances. Quality players make those around them look good.
Think back to 06. Sure- we could have just scraped into the top 8- and taken a player like Frawley or Armitage who would have served us well- but we've happened to snag probably the most impressive of the KPP in that draft to date- and you could argue- have sured up 1/4 of our spine.
If we could pick up a Scully, Lucas or Butcher- we'd be well on the way to challenging for a flag in a few years. And that is what we all want to see- our team win a premiership. Prelim finals and good concerted efforts will only continue to attract the most loyal of Roo supporters- but success like that of the Hawks- will bring every TOm, Dick and Harry Bandwagoner to help the future viability of the club.

 

[vb_is_4_me]

If we do it you have to do it right. Laidley will have to go and you will need a care taker coach that can just play the kids with no pressure on his win loss record. This is what Carlton did with Ratten. IMO if we lose to the pies and then port its time to do it. I dont care if Rawlings and Simpson are in our best at the moment they have to be droped, they wont be in our best in 2 to 3 years time which is where we should be planning for. you need to play every kid you can, get games into them and find out who can really play. the next thing is Hale has to be contracted so he can be traded to the GC for draft picks when they come in. After this year IMO the only 2 players over the age of 27 on our list should be Harvey and Harding that means Harris, Jones, Rawlings, Simpson and Watt's time is up.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Just curious, what would we do differently? We've already retired and delisted a lot of experience, and already been playing plenty of young players vand expermenting with positional changes.

Most of the guys who might be dropped if we looked totally longterm are, according to most peolpe on here, crap anyway - so if we were aiming to lose games, we'd play more of them, not less.

The only older player who clearly makes us a better side at the moment is Simmo, and if anyone says we should hurry his retirement to deliberately weaken the side I couldn't disagree more - both he and the club deserve better.

It's a pointless discussion. We've got a young group playing and they just got younger through a terrible injury to our captain. We'll play them as we have been, cheer them on, and see what happens. I honestly hope they win as many as they can because they'll be better players faster with confidence - and that will be much more valuable than moving two or three positions up in the draft to pick one new player.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Originally Posted by Hearts to hearts
It's a pointless discussion. We've got a young group playing and they just got younger through a terrible injury to our captain. We'll play them as we have been, cheer them on, and see what happens. I honestly hope they win as many as they can because they'll be better players faster with confidence - and that will be much more valuable than moving two or three positions up in the draft to pick one new player.

That highlighted sentence is pretty much what Hutchy was alluding to H to h. He wasn't saying we should wave the white flag and play kids in every position of every game. He was saying that with the injury crisis which has hit the club, things aren't ALL bad, as we ARE ALREADY playing kids who wouldn't have otherwise gained a run, and he reckoned there's a huge upside to doing so (with this being the last uncompromised draft).

So, in summary, he felt it may be a blessing in disguise for the long term benefit of the club's premiership prospects down the track. As I listened I was nodding in agreement.

 

[Z_K]

I haven't had a problem with selection at all this year. I wouldn't play Power, but I understand why he is there. Banging on about one spot in the 22 is a waste of time.

The only thing I would like to see is the side place a huge emphasis on taking risks from here on in. Apart from the Grand Final, we are the only side who got close to Geelong last year and we looked ****ing outstanding doing it. I would threaten to drop any bloke who doesn't look to take risks, play on and create something positive more often than not.

 

[Twinkletoes]

I haven't had a problem with selection at all this year. I wouldn't play Power, but I understand why he is there. Banging on about one spot in the 22 is a waste of time.

The only thing I would like to see is the side place a huge emphasis on taking risks from here on in. Apart from the Grand Final, we are the only side who got close to Geelong last year and we looked ****ing outstanding doing it. I would threaten to drop any bloke who doesn't look to take risks, play on and create something positive more often than not.

Amen to all of that NB

It'd be a great grounding for the young blokes if they're learning to play in such a way whilst gaining valuable experience. No one does it better than the Cats, and they're a fair yardstick to be aiming for. The instruction should generally be "Just go for it boys!".

 

[Devil Fish]

So who gets dropped if we are to bottom out? Simpson? Petrie? Hale? Rawlings? We are playing the kids already. :

Good question.
I think Rawlings & Power are the 2 obvious guys to drop.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

the next thing is Hale has to be contracted so he can be traded to the GC for draft picks when they come in.

I think this is a must. We could get some go value from GC, if he is contracted. We will never win a premiership as long as this guy is playing full forward to us. He has already proven that he is not a great ruckman, and he is too inconsistant to be a power forward that could lead us to a premiership.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

The only thing I would like to see is the side place a huge emphasis on taking risks from here on in. Apart from the Grand Final, we are the only side who got close to Geelong last year and we looked ****ing outstanding doing it. I would threaten to drop any bloke who doesn't look to take risks, play on and create something positive more often than not.

Good Post NB...we have to stop playing such negative s*** football. Start taking some risk, and start playing exciting football.

 

[Artichoke]

Good Post NB...we have to stop playing such negative s*** football. Start taking some risk, and start playing exciting football.

Yep. But you & I know that ain't gonna happen because risky football means a possible big loss which tarnishes Laidley's resume. Better we lose by 3-4 goals & everyone will be amazed how we were competitive with so many injuries on top of losing Sansbury, Green & Brown.

 

[Zondor]

Yep. But you & I know that ain't gonna happen because risky football means a possible big loss which tarnishes Laidley's resume. Better we lose by 3-4 goals & everyone will be amazed how we were competitive with so many injuries on top of losing Sansbury, Green & Brown.

Since we have lost Sansburys, Green and Brown we just haven't been the same team. Laidley makes a valid point you know.

 

[FrangaRoo]

Keep playing the kids, play more and more so we can really see where we are at rather than guessing about some of these blokes in the VFL.

I love the finals, but the last few years (bar that magical Semi Final night) have left a sour taste in my mouth, the only down side in all this is will the members stay?

The test case is the Bulldogs, they bottomed out and didnt lose any members, lets hope our fans see the light at the end of the tunnel...

 

[DarwinRoo]

Randy Watson has something to say about what we should do for the rest of the year.

[YOUTUBE]ZoS8j9eNMZU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[trilogy]

Keep playing the kids, play more and more so we can really see where we are at rather than guessing about some of these blokes in the VFL.

I love the finals, but the last few years (bar that magical Semi Final night) have left a sour taste in my mouth, the only down side in all this is will the members stay?

The test case is the Bulldogs, they bottomed out and didnt lose any members, lets hope our fans see the light at the end of the tunnel...

I agree. I would even argue that the current boring and painful style of football we are playing right now is much more damaging and detrimental to our supporter base. Not to mention the fact that we will never get new members - i can't even convince neutral supporters to attend our games any more!

Even if we bottom out, as long as we are able to play entertaining football and like you said, show some glimmer of hope of future success - supporters will be happy.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

We don't need to 'bottom out' as in a multi year rebuild.

We need a new coach and a new gameplan.

We've been cruelled by injuries.

Put Hansen, Boomer, Jesse Smith, Wells and Liam Anthony into the side that'll run out on Friday and it looks very good.

Obviously those injuries are going to make this season and uphill battle.

So, as many have said, we know play the kids - even more - and we try a variety of ATTACKING gameplans.

We know Hale can gun it at FF.

Hard to gun it when Captain Bringdown's gameplan makes delivery impossible.

If we at least try this season and cop a few beltings, well, we'll hand out a few.

And if the end result is a high draft pick in the last uncompromised draft, so be it.

Then next season we pitch to the members the new coach, the exciting new gameplan and the new draft pick sit alongside Ziebell, Hansen et al.

 

[Tiberius]

We don't need to 'bottom out' as in a multi year rebuild.

We need a new coach and a new gameplan.

We've been cruelled by injuries.

Absolutely agree with this. We may need to go down to the bottom to draft in new talent, but we also may not. We actually don't know what some of our young talent are capable of because whilst we play them in the team, we don't actually give them the chance to express themselves and take on the opposition. They are forced to play the ridiculous chippy chippy crap we are developing.

I actually worry that it might be detrimental to the confidence and ability of some of our young kids to be playing them at the moment. Let's give them the chance to play under a different style and structure, and then see whether we want to drop down the ladder for higher draft picks. And yes I know the Gold Coast team complicates this.

I'm almost at the point where I'd rather go to the games and see us play attacking football and get beaten than have wins like the essendon game. I f#$kin hate the way we play!