Coach Buckley to end AFL journey empty handed

[adammania9]

Honestly him being too big for the club was probably a blessing in disguise for us.

Arguably. A star player leaving is never a good thing. Things just turned out well in hindsight.

 

[iBeng]

Arguably. A star player leaving is never a good thing. Things just turned out well in hindsight.

He was hardly a star player when he left.

 

[adammania9]

He was hardly a star player when he left.

=6th in the ‘93 Brownlow, with 9 more votes than the next best Bear.

 

[iBeng]

=6th in the ‘93 Brownlow, with 9 more votes than the next best Bear.

A first year player that had a better than average season for a first year player. It happens. A lot. Rich did it and he never really became what we expected of him. Serviceable, yes, but not elite.

Either way, forcing him to stay wouldnt have ended well.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Scott Hodges... Port's superstar full forward who kicked 153 goals in 1990... he kicked just 30 goals for the Crows in 1991 vs AFL full backs. He was given the flick after 4 seasons & 38 games

He played 13 games in 1991. For a coach that hated him and used him as a decoy more than anything.
He played 13 games in 1992 and 48 goals.

 

[deanc]

What is the actual percentage rate of Coaches successful in a premiership, and player to coach persons achieving a premiership?

Not sure I understand either of your queries, but I'll have a go.

Since 1990:
A. 18% - 18 coaches have coached all Premierships from roughly 100 senior coaches (can't be arsed looking up exact number, some clubs have had 10 senior coaches since 1990, while others just 4 or 5).
B. 100% - all Premiership coaches are former players... (not sure what you are really asking here?)

 

[iBeng]

Not sure I understand either of your queries, but I'll have a go.

Since 1990:
A. 18% - 18 coaches have coached all Premierships from roughly 100 senior coaches (can't be arsed looking up exact number, some clubs have had 10 senior coaches since 1990, while others just 4 or 5).
B. 100% - all Premiership coaches are former players... (not sure what you are really asking here?)

No that was pretty much it, although there are former players who became coaches and this far have not won premierships, obvious ones being Voss and Leppa and the North Scott.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

True, but how many people who have played in or coached nearly 500 games don’t?

Everyone who has played or coached 500+ games has won a premiership.

Nathan Buckley = 470 games
Ross Lyon = 434 games
Leon Cameron = 402 Games
Bernie Quinlan = 385 Games
Bill Stephen = 370 Games
Danny Frawley = 353 Games
Matthew Knights = 346 Games
Wally Carter = 345 Games
Kevin Murray = 333 Games
Bob Skilton = 325 Games
Neale Daniher = 305 Games
Ken Hinkley = 295 Games
Des Tuddenham = 294 Games
Carl Ditterich = 285 Games
Brenton Sanderson = 278 Games
Arthur Olliver = 272 Games
Joe Kelly = 269 Games
Roy Cazaly = 264 Games
Ian Hampshire = 258 Games
Terry Wheeler = 248 Games
Alan Richardson = 240 Games
Ron Clegg = 231 Games
Des Rowe = 229 Games
Paddy Scanlen = 226 Games
Alby Morrison = 224 Games
Ricky Quade = 221 Games
Bill Eason = 220 Games
Wels Eicke = 218 Games
Chris Connolly = 213 Games
Keith McKenzie = 212 Games
Peter Rohde = 208 Games
Rodney Olsson = 207 Games
Grant Thomas = 206 Games
Matthew Primus = 204 Games
Bill Cubbins = 203 Games
Len Smith = 202 Games
Col Williamson = 202 Games
Norman Ware = 200 Games

Bold = Current Coach

 

[freebloke]

Malthouse won a premiership after 10 years at the Pies. He did win a couple at West Coast earlier though. Pies need wait till 2021/2022 before they make any calls on him.

 

[Square Peg]

Flags I Guess Just Aren't Mine

 

[Freomaniac]

I could see why he wouldn't be liked as a person because he's a smug twat with a chip on his shoulder. But it's hard not to like him as a player, one of the best who's played, amazing skills, not dirty, etc.

Well considering you are a suns fan, whats your thoughts on Charles Barkleys playing career in the NBA?

Didnt win an NBA title, was dangerously close in 1992-3 season when he got that MVP title.

 

[Back One Out]

He played 13 games in 1991. For a coach that hated him and used him as a decoy more than anything.
He played 13 games in 1992 and 48 goals.

Still a long way short of 153 though, innit?

AFL forwards were kicking mega-tallllies back then, too. It was the highest scoring era of all time.
Dunstall & Lockett would kick 130 plus... Ablett, Modra and Sumich kicked 120 odd in a season
Longmire and Daicos almost kicked 100... Lyon, Brownless, Kernahan and Rocca would kick 80 or 90

Compare Scott Hodges' average goals per game in the different competitions:

SANFL__167 games, 671 goals (avg 4.02)
AFL_____38 games, 100 goals (avg 2.63)


He topped 100-a-season three times in the SANFL, but couldn't crack 50 in the AFL. Sure, he only played 13 games a season.. But he was left out of the team or used as a 'decoy' for a reason... besides Graham Cornes's hatred of Port Adelaide

__Magpies / Crows
1988 - 74 goals
1989 - 79 goals
1990 - 153 goals
1991 - 30 goals
1992 - 48 goals
1993 - 17 goals
1994 - 130 goals
1995 - ???
1996 - 117 goals

I'm not saying Hodge wasn't a good forward for the Port Magpies... Just sayin' there was a big big gap between the SANFL and AFL during his career. Port might've dominated the SANFL in that time and I'm sure you loved every second of it, but you can't seriously compare an SANFL player's achievements to a VFL/AFL player in that period.

(I'm not a "typical arrogant Victorian", by the way. I acknowledge the SANFL was bloody strong from the 70's through to 1985)

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

He played 13 games in 1991. For a coach that hated him and used him as a decoy more than anything.
He played 13 games in 1992 and 48 goals.

That's an interesting comment that the coach hated him. Could you tell us more? As an outsider looking in, it always looked as though Hodges' nose was put out of joint when Modra came along. I was watching a game with a mate where Hawthorn was playing Adelaide at Football Park. At one stage Hodges took a mark about 60 metres from goal, turned to see Modra making a lead. He looked to kick, then decided against it, and it looked to us as though Hodges saw who it was and decided "stuff him". Can't say that's what it was, but to an opposition supporter, that's how it seemed.

 

[Andronicus]

I hope he breaks all sorts of records.

Would be great to see him get to the 1000 game mark and still have no flags.

 

[BronCrow]

Still a long way short of 153 though, innit?

AFL forwards were kicking mega-tallllies back then, too. It was the highest scoring era of all time.
Dunstall & Lockett would kick 130 plus... Ablett, Modra and Sumich kicked 120 odd in a season
Longmire and Daicos almost kicked 100... Lyon, Brownless, Kernahan and Rocca would kick 80 or 90

Compare Scott Hodges' average goals per game in the different competitions:

SANFL__167 games, 671 goals (avg 4.02)
AFL_____38 games, 100 goals (avg 2.63)


He topped 100-a-season three times in the SANFL, but couldn't crack 50 in the AFL. Sure, he only played 13 games a season.. But he was left out of the team or used as a 'decoy' for a reason... besides Graham Cornes's hatred of Port Adelaide

__Magpies / Crows
1988 - 74 goals
1989 - 79 goals
1990 - 153 goals
1991 - 30 goals
1992 - 48 goals
1993 - 17 goals
1994 - 130 goals
1995 - ???
1996 - 117 goals

I'm not saying Hodge wasn't a good forward for the Port Magpies... Just sayin' there was a big big gap between the SANFL and AFL during his career. Port might've dominated the SANFL in that time and I'm sure you loved every second of it, but you can't seriously compare an SANFL player's achievements to a VFL/AFL player in that period.

(I'm not a "typical arrogant Victorian", by the way. I acknowledge the SANFL was bloody strong from the 70's through to 1985)

I do wonder about Hodges in the AFL. He was capable of a bag in the AFL, mostly at Football Park. My first ever Crows game was at Footy Park was against Geelong in 1992, and Hodges kicked 11 goals that day. Remember, Geelong were minor premiers and made the GF that year.


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[Duckimus Prime]

He topped 100-a-season three times in the SANFL, but couldn't crack 50 in the AFL. Sure, he only played 13 games a season.. But he was left out of the team or used as a 'decoy' for a reason... besides Graham Cornes's hatred of Port Adelaide

We're talking about a guy who Graham Cornes decided not to select for round 1, after that 153 game season.

Treated like s**t at the Crows.

 

[doppleganger]

He is the only coach to be given six years to learn on the job with declining results year on year. Impossible to judge him against any other coach as no other coach would have been given that long with those on field results. He coaches well now.

It was the unique circumstances of when he took over that contributed to that.

Most coaches take over after a previous failed stint, so start down at the bottom and get a chance to build.

As the Pies tried to implement the succession plan, he took over a list in 2012 that was still a premiership fancy but one that had been up for five years 07-11, not many teams are able to keep making top4 for more than 5 years.

After 16 and 14 wins in his first two seasons, but poor finals, he then moved on plenty of the premiership team for kids - Maxwell, L.Ball, Jolly, L.Brown, Didak, B.Johnson, Tarrant, A.Krak, Thomas, H.Shaw, L.Davis, Dawes, Wellingham, Harry and Beams - they all were retired or moved on from 2012-14.

So he effectively navigated a rebuild, plenty of Pie fans upset that we were moving on premiership stars and playing kids instead of trying to go for flags.

After moving on 15 of our senior players in his first 3 seasons, we then ‘bottomed out’ with the worst season being a 9 win with a % of 95...a pretty good low point.

The frustration was that we didn’t bounce back quickly.

But when you have key players like Cloke fall off the cliff, and Swan bust his foot in the first Q of 2016...explains why we apparently treaded water in 16/17 before jumping to GF in 2018.

Bucks has earnt another couple of years to have a crack, but if he doesn’t win one then it is time for new ideas.

 

[The 747]

It was the unique circumstances of when he took over that contributed to that.

Most coaches take over after a previous failed stint, so start down at the bottom and get a chance to build.

As the Pies tried to implement the succession plan, he took over a list in 2012 that was still a premiership fancy but one that had been up for five years 07-11, not many teams are able to keep making top4 for more than 5 years.

After 16 and 14 wins in his first two seasons, but poor finals, he then moved on plenty of the premiership team for kids - Maxwell, L.Ball, Jolly, L.Brown, Didak, B.Johnson, Tarrant, A.Krak, Thomas, H.Shaw, L.Davis, Dawes, Wellingham, Harry and Beams - they all were retired or moved on from 2012-14.

So he effectively navigated a rebuild, plenty of Pie fans upset that we were moving on premiership stars and playing kids instead of trying to go for flags.

After moving on 15 of our senior players in his first 3 seasons, we then ‘bottomed out’ with the worst season being a 9 win with a % of 95...a pretty good low point.

The frustration was that we didn’t bounce back quickly.

But when you have key players like Cloke fall off the cliff, and Swan bust his foot in the first Q of 2016...explains why we apparently treaded water in 16/17 before jumping to GF in 2018.

Bucks has earnt another couple of years to have a crack, but if he doesn’t win one then it is time for new ideas.

You may be correct, but it makes it very hard to judge his coaching because as you say, it is a unique set of circumstances.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Thanks for confirming Ports SANFL history doesn't mean anything

Gee that jumpers looks good.

They should wear that every home game. It shits all over Collingwoods stripes.

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[doppleganger]

You may be correct, but it makes it very hard to judge his coaching because as you say, it is a unique set of circumstances.

His W/L record of 56% is on par with Hardwick, Beveridge, and L.Cameron of modern coaches.

If the Pies have another decent year in 2020, his W/L record will push ahead of Malthouse and R.Lyon who are 57%.

If he doesn’t coach Collingwood to a flag he will be seen as a failure, even if he does many will still consider him a failure...that is just how it rolls with Buckley.

 

[Shane Heard]

Anyone who says 'he can't coach' are delusional. How the hell would you know? Do you have any idea about the inner workings of the Collingwood Football Club. We only see how the players translate a gameplan into action and draw conclusions on the basis of that. Collingwood are a very good side and are well and truly in the mix to win a flag in the next couple of years. This is not to guarantee they will, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to attribute this to supposedly poor coaching.

When are we going to meaningfully acknowledge that the senior coach no longer holds the mantle of sole responsibility at a football club? From assistant coaches, list managers and on field leaders, the senior coach is one cog in a much more nuanced system. Certainly their views hold considerable weight but I'd daresay times have changed where their power is absolute.

People who attribute a side's performance to a coach are dumb football fans.

no one is saying he can’t coach...it’s just that he’s a mediocre one.

 

[Redline]

I think he will get one this year still, Port is their only other main challenger.

 

[Go the Guts]

Thanks for confirming Ports SANFL history doesn't mean anything

Boom!

 

[The 747]

His W/L record of 56% is on par with Hardwick, Beveridge, and L.Cameron of modern coaches.

If the Pies have another decent year in 2020, his W/L record will push ahead of Malthouse and R.Lyon who are 57%.

If he doesn’t coach Collingwood to a flag he will be seen as a failure, even if he does many will still consider him a failure...that is just how it rolls with Buckley.

You are missing my point, perhaps on purpose. Every other coach comes into the job and needs to show results or they don't get to coach for six years before the team comes good. So comparisons are not relevant.

 

[doppleganger]

You are missing my point, perhaps on purpose. Every other coach comes into the job and needs to show results or they don't get to coach for six years before the team comes good. So comparisons are not relevant.

He won 30 H&A games in his first two seasons!!

Is that not getting decent results?