Coach Buckley to end AFL journey empty handed

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Toump Ass

Norm Smith Medallist
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So with where the list was at by the end of 2015 (by which time the majority of the 2011 GF side had either retired, had the remainder of their careers wrecked by injury, or were on life support at other clubs), what would you have done?
A few things that come to mind for me:
  • Not given a four year, 1 million dollar contract to a drug-taking gambling addict who the club had already bailed out of a rape case and shipped off to the Lions.
  • Not given a seven year contract to... anyone.
  • Not given any contract to an injury-plagued Daniel Wells
  • Not slagged of Mayne after "accidentally" giving him a contract
  • Not dropped two first round picks on Treloar
  • Traded out Jamie Elliot when he had currency
  • Chased a key forward... hard (Tom Lynch would have been ideal)
  • Called Eddie out for being a racist prick
That's off the top of my head. Pies have done some good trades over the last five years (Howe especially) but the Wells & Beams trades were shocking.
Pies list has seemed unbalanced for a while. Throwing two first round picks at Treloar when the midfield already included Pendles and Sidebottom didn't seem necessary.
 

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PieLebo87

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A few things that come to mind for me:
  • Not given a four year, 1 million dollar contract to a drug-taking gambling addict who the club had already bailed out of a rape case and shipped off to the Lions.
  • An elite midfielder who’d come off 29 possession avg and 18 Brownlow votes, and 27 possession avg and 17 Brownlow votes in the previous 2 years. Not worth that at the time?!
  • Not given a seven year contract to... anyone.
  • Did you have similar reservations about Alistair Lynch’s 10 year contract with the Lions? How did that turn out for them?
  • Not given any contract to an injury-plagued Daniel Wells
  • 243 games in 14 years at the Roos. 11 of 14 seasons with 18+ games, including the season before coming to the Pies. Was that injury-plagued in your eyes?
  • Not slagged of Mayne after "accidentally" giving him a contract
  • Don’t get the relevance of this one - throw it in with the rest of them though lol
  • Not dropped two first round picks on Treloar
  • He’s probably the best midfielder right now in a side that’s won a final in each of the last 3 seasons, and have played off in a GF. Some would argue he has made us a better side.
  • Traded out Jamie Elliot when he had currency
  • Why?
  • Chased a key forward... hard (Tom Lynch would have been ideal)
  • You’d think we didn’t chase Tom Lynch going by this comment. You’d also think they grew on trees by the way you’re talking.
  • Called Eddie out for being a racist prick
  • Similar to the Mayne one - try harder if you want to take subtle digs.
That's off the top of my head. Pies have done some good trades over the last five years (Howe especially) but the Wells & Beams trades were shocking.
Pies list has seemed unbalanced for a while. Throwing two first round picks at Treloar when the midfield already included Pendles and Sidebottom didn't seem necessary.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isnt it? Everyone can look like a genius when commenting in hindsight.

PS: The Mayne deal didn’t cost us a pick. Just a list spot. The first Beams trade was bloody great (got us JDG, Crisp and Greenwood)
 

Toump Ass

Norm Smith Medallist
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Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isnt it? Everyone can look like a genius when commenting in hindsight.
I don't think you know what hindsight is.

Beams was a shocking trade at the time.
Daniel Wells- in the three years before he moved to Collingwood, he had a 2 game season and a 10 game season. Yes that's injury plagued. And remind me how old he was at the time?
I reckon you might have got Tom Lynch if you didn't waste your salary cap on Wells and Beams.

(Re: Mayne. Good pick up, but slagging him off in public was pathetic).
 

PieLebo87

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I don't think you know what hindsight is.

Beams was a shocking trade at the time.
Daniel Wells- in the three years before he moved to Collingwood, he had a 2 game season and a 10 game season. Yes that's injury plagued. And remind me how old he was at the time?
I reckon you might have got Tom Lynch if you didn't waste your salary cap on Wells and Beams.

(Re: Mayne. Good pick up, but slagging him off in public was pathetic).
Beams trade happened 10 days after Tom Lynch signed for the Tigers. Pretty certain if we’d landed Lynch, we wouldn’t have even done the Beams trade. We obviously had the cap space and used it on Beams.

Btw, speaking of 7 year contracts, you realise Lynch signed a 7 year deal with the Tigers?
 

Toump Ass

Norm Smith Medallist
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Beams trade happened 10 days after Tom Lynch signed for the Tigers. Pretty certain if we’d landed Lynch, we wouldn’t have even done the Beams trade. We obviously had the cap space and used it on Beams.
So you think clubs only decide who to target during trade week?

Btw, speaking of 7 year contracts, you realise Lynch signed a 7 year deal with the Tigers?
Sweet. He's helped them win a flag, will potentially help with another in a few weeks, and is the perfect replacement for Riewoldt. Would be a massive upgrade on Cox.

Not unusual for clubs to sign opposition players on extended contracts to lure them over, ie: your club gave a four year contract to a 28 year old finger painter, and a three year contract to a 31 year old who'd missed over 50% of games in two of his previous three seasons (Wells).

Much less usual to give extended contracts to players who are already playing for you.

But, by all means, continue to talk up how well Collingwood have managed their salary cap and all the success this list has brought.

(Edit: Also, you're absolutely full of sh*t if you say that getting Beams back was a good trade at the time. He had well-known issues and it's blown up in the clubs face. Don't pretend otherwise).
 

PieLebo87

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So you think clubs only decide who to target during trade week?

Sweet. He's helped them win a flag, will potentially help with another in a few weeks, and is the perfect replacement for Riewoldt. Would be a massive upgrade on Cox.

Not unusual for clubs to sign opposition players on extended contracts to lure them over, ie: your club gave a four year contract to a 28 year old finger painter, and a three year contract to a 31 year old who'd missed over 50% of games in two of his previous three seasons (Wells).

Much less usual to give extended contracts to players who are already playing for you.

But, by all means, continue to talk up how well Collingwood have managed their salary cap and all the success this list has brought.

(Edit: Also, you're absolutely full of sh*t if you say that getting Beams back was a good trade at the time. He had well-known issues and it's blown up in the clubs face. Don't pretend otherwise).
You’re just full of sh*t, period. As I said, hindsight is a beautiful thing. So easy to sink the boot in now - doesn’t make you that smart.
 

Toump Ass

Norm Smith Medallist
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You’re just full of sh*t, period. As I said, hindsight is a beautiful thing. So easy to sink the boot in now - doesn’t make you that smart.
I'm not sinking the boots in at all. I'm a huge fan of Buckley and I hope the Pies stick with him.

That said, list and salary cap management have been poor at times and both Wells' three year contract and Beams four-year contract carried substantial risks at the time.

Given how close you came those decisions may well have cost you a flag.
 

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Hot Diggity

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Agree. He is a too risk averse coach.

Collingwood could of won the game last night had he switched Darcy Moore forward.
I remember after the Elimination Final win v WCE last week - Buckley said Mihocek's and DeGoey's goals in Q4 were "low percentage goals"...

There's Buckley's problem in a nutshell. Who ******* cares how you get the goals in a final when the game is on the line? He is so bogged down in analysis, "method" and micromanagement he stifles his team.
 

PieLebo87

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I'm not sinking the boots in at all. I'm a huge fan of Buckley and I hope the Pies stick with him.

That said, list and salary cap management have been poor at times and both Wells' three year contract and Beams four-year contract carried substantial risks at the time.

Given how close you came those decisions may well have cost you a flag.
3 of the top 7 in the B&F of our 2018 GF year were from smart trades/list management decisions - Crisp, Adams & Howe.

4 of the top 10 in the B&F last year - Crisp, Treloar, Howe & Roughead.

Granted, IN HINDSIGHT, the Wells and Beams deals were cock ups (No-one is defending that), but they’ve gotten more right than wrong in recent years, which is evidenced by Collingwood making multiple top 4s and a GF.

Remember there is only 1 premier for every 18 clubs each year and very few clubs perfect list and salary cap management.
 

Ricmel

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You have to think after this year Pies are a couple of years off being a strong contender. Pendlebury probably not getting any better, Treloar injury prone, still lacking a KPF and likely have to trade some reasonable players to deal with salary cap and list issues. They are still a good list but there are 4 or 5 better lists right now.

So hypothetically next 2 or 3 years might be middle of the road and then Bucks is a 13 year coach without a flag and to be honest has never really shown any coaching innovation like Clarkson or Lyon or Hardwick. Not many coaches get to coach 10 years without a flag, be very hard to justify keeping him on after 11/12 years.
 

PieLebo87

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You have to think after this year Pies are a couple of years off being a strong contender.
Why? What is that based on? Outside the WCE and Demons matches, their biggest loss this year was by 16 points vs Port in the last round. Other losing margins were 8, 12, 15 and 2 points. Pretty strange assertion to be making.
Pendlebury probably not getting any better, Treloar injury prone
Remembering he has never been a player who relies on pace, Pendles’ output this season was decent, and there’s no reason he can’t repeat, as he is 32. Similarly to your above assertion, interesting you’ve classified Treloar as injury prone. He had a hamstring issue this year, as well as in 2018, but even then, he played 24 games last year, 17 in 2018, 21, 22 and 21 in the prior 3 years and is only 27. If anything, he’s entering his prime, and we should see his best footy in the coming 24-36 months.

still lacking a KPF and likely have to trade some reasonable players to deal with salary cap and list issues. They are still a good list but there are 4 or 5 better lists right now.
Why would they need to trade to deal? What salary cap/list issues? I wouldn’t be buying into the media’s shizen. Every club plays a decent juggling act when managing their lists/salary, Collingwood is no different. At this stage, everyone out of contract has stated they want to stay at Collingwood, and Collingwood is confident about retaining them.
There are murmurs though of Collingwood potentially offloading JDG and the $800,000 if it means they can land Jeremy Cameron. That tells me they’ve got some $$$ up their sleeve to throw at a Cameron, if true.

So hypothetically next 2 or 3 years might be middle of the road and then Bucks is a 13 year coach without a flag and to be honest has never really shown any coaching innovation like Clarkson or Lyon or Hardwick. Not many coaches get to coach 10 years without a flag, be very hard to justify keeping him on after 11/12 years.
It’s your hypothetical there. As far as their track record over the last couple of years, they’re still well and truly in contention in 2021 and 2022.
I’m with you though, if nothing materialises in the next 1-2 years, the heat will well and truly turn up on Bucks, as the window will shut on the current group of 27-30 and another mini rebuild will be required, with Pies fans wanting it to occur with a new coach if there is no Premiership to show for this recent era of finals appearances.
 

Ricmel

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Why? What is that based on? Outside the WCE and Demons matches, their biggest loss this year was by 16 points vs Port in the last round. Other losing margins were 8, 12, 15 and 2 points. Pretty strange assertion to be making.
I personally think that there are 4 or 5 lists better than the Pies right now. Three of those - Port, Brisbane and Western Bulldogs are on an upward curve. Another, Richmond is likely to be right in the mix for a couple more years.

I think Pies are in the middle of a pack next tier down - and there are quite a few in that pack.

I don't think the current Pies list is on an upcurve. Some of the players that have been a core of performances over the past couple years are definitely on the other side of their peak. A couple of players seem very injury prone and if reports are right, there is significant salary cap pressure. There still seems to be a lack of a credible KPF.

All these issues may be resolved over the trade period and I'm definitely not saying Pies cannot win one of the next two. But I am saying I think it is unlikely. Others would have to fall over.
 

Catsnlakers

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Can his journey end already?
I think he has next year left, if that doesn’t result in a flag, I think it’s probably time for a new coach....As that would be 10 completed seasons for no silverware....That’s enough time, same goes for my coach, he’s contracted until 2022 & if we don’t get another flag it should be his time also.
 

Monument Hills

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I thought they looked pretty good against WC two weeks ago. Few teams have beaten WC at home the past couple of years. Buckley outcoached Simpson.
Also helped that Cox showed up. I just think they need that consistent big marking, bag of goals hauling dangerous key forward that does it week after week and frees up the smalls. Take Hawkins out of Geelong and watch them slide. Would be doing everything to get in Brown or Cameron.
 

Toump Ass

Norm Smith Medallist
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Granted, IN HINDSIGHT, the Wells and Beams deals were cock ups
When you say hindsight, what exactly do you mean?

Danny Wells: 31 years old and had played less than 50% of the games in two of the previous three seasons, including one season where he only played 2. :$
Dayne Beams: 28 years old and a four year contract. Didn't need another mid as you already had Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom, Pendlebury. Significant and known off-field (gambling) issues. Loved drugs too. Shitty character- got a front-loaded contract at the Lions and left them before it finished.

"Hindsight" :drunk::drunk::drunk:

Have you bought one of Beamers paintings yet?
 

PieLebo87

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When you say hindsight, what exactly do you mean?

Danny Wells: 31 years old and had played less than 50% of the games in two of the previous three seasons, including one season where he only played 2. :$
Dayne Beams: 28 years old and a four year contract. Didn't need another mid as you already had Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom, Pendlebury. Significant and known off-field (gambling) issues. Loved drugs too. Shitty character- got a front-loaded contract at the Lions and left them before it finished.

"Hindsight" :drunk::drunk::drunk:

Have you bought one of Beamers paintings yet?
Absolutely not.

From all reports, is a scumbag.

Good footballer though. (When at the playing weight)
 

PieLebo87

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I personally think that there are 4 or 5 lists better than the Pies right now. Three of those - Port, Brisbane and Western Bulldogs are on an upward curve. Another, Richmond is likely to be right in the mix for a couple more years.

I think Pies are in the middle of a pack next tier down - and there are quite a few in that pack.

I don't think the current Pies list is on an upcurve. Some of the players that have been a core of performances over the past couple years are definitely on the other side of their peak. A couple of players seem very injury prone and if reports are right, there is significant salary cap pressure. There still seems to be a lack of a credible KPF.

All these issues may be resolved over the trade period and I'm definitely not saying Pies cannot win one of the next two. But I am saying I think it is unlikely. Others would have to fall over.
Nothing to dispute or argue with what you’ve said.

In saying that, how many people had Port finishing top spot this year? Footy is a funny game at times.
 

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