Cale Morton vs Chris Masten

[jgb99]

Anyway, neutral observers are having their say.

Scoreboard.

Was there ever any doubt though ... neutral observers will always go for the guy that has shown more, received more hype, media, has better stats etc. It will be an interesting poll to review to in 4+ years when both players (if they stay fit) will have close to 100 games experience and both teams will probably be contending.

I'm personally of the school of thought that Masten is much further from his best than most think, and Morton is closer to his best than most think.

Also with the CP stats you also have to look at % of CP too which is 17.8% vs 27.5%, which paints a different picture. *Interesting to note that Champion Data also consider 'loose ball gets' (along with hard ball gets, contested marks and free kicks for) as part of the CP count.

 

[blaisee]

Nothing to be proud of.

As for Morton getting "cheap kicks in the backline" ? He's played in the backline in 4 matches of his 30 game career. His first foray into the backline was late in the first quarter when James Frawley came off injured against West Coast in round 7 and he starred. If Garland wasn't injured he wouldn't be down there. As it is other clubs are trying to take him out of the play such has been his influence.

Morton has grown to 194cms, has the best endurance at the club with a 15+ beep test, and creates play with uncanny vision. He does all this in his immature stick figure 19 year old body. His upside is enormous. With respect to Masten, his type of player is a dime a dozen.

If one needed a license to post based on IQ levels we wouldn't hear from you Cale.

source please

 

[Carnthe]

Where is Morton's improvement going to come from? Where is Masten's improvement going to come from?

 

[kane249]

Where is Morton's improvement going to come from? Where is Masten's improvement going to come from?

Masten's improvement will come from being able to do a proper pre-season after over coming his OP and as his body continues to develop

 

[blaisee]

my god morton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>masten


Masten is a dime a dozen rookie list talent footballer with little pace and average kicking ability


Morton is 6 4 with elite kicking ability, west coast rarely screw up but they must be kicking themselves on this one. Big Mistake IMHO

 

[kane249]

my god morton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>masten


Masten is a dime a dozen rookie list talent footballer with little pace and average kicking ability


Morton is 6 4 with elite kicking ability, west coast rarely screw up but they must be kicking themselves on this one. Big Mistake IMHO

After a year of their careers Deleidio was showing more then Buddy and Roughead, didn't that one turn out great? Ditto Judd being miles ahed of Hodge and Kosi being miles ahead of Riewoldt

FFS people why not actually give these kids a bit of time before we judge them

 

[Bombers1234]

Here are the actual stats:

Morton, 10 games, 46 contested possessions at an ave. of 4.6 a game
Masten, 9 games, 42 contested possessions at an ave. of 4.67 a game

So basically identical! Didnt expect that did ya!

Actually you've just proved my point. Masten has a much higher percentage of his disposals in contested situations, whilst Morton gets cheap kicks off the half back falnk.

Morton will be a decent Andrew Lovett type player, no where near worthy of a top 5 draft pick, while Masten has superstar written all over him.

 

[whelan=legend]

After a year of their careers Deleidio was showing more then Buddy and Roughead, didn't that one turn out great? Ditto Judd being miles ahed of Hodge and Kosi being miles ahead of Riewoldt

FFS people why not actually give these kids a bit of time before we judge them

That's a bit of a futile argument. I mean, Deledio was ahead of his because he was ready made player compared to Buddy and Roughead.

In this case Masten was the ready made player compared to Morton, yet is very, very far behind. The gap will keep extending in the future.

 

[wce_all_da_way]

That's a bit of a futile argument. I mean, Deledio was ahead of his because he was ready made player compared to Buddy and Roughead.

In this case Masten was the ready made player compared to Morton, yet is very, very far behind. The gap will keep extending in the future.

Masten ready made? You have to got to be taking the piss. Masten came in seriously undersized (which affects his position as inside mid MUCH more than Morton's size would) and with OP? How is that ready made.

Give it a few years and then come back to it.

 

[In And Under Tiger]

After a year of their careers

Deleidio was showing more then Buddy and Roughead Key positions develop slower that midfielders. Yet at least Buddy and Roughy showed they were going to be stars in their first year.

Ditto Judd being miles ahed of Hodge Still is

and Kosi being miles ahead of Riewoldt No he wasn't. Reiwoldt missed the majority of the season injured, but was great towards the end of the year when he played.

FFS people why not actually give these kids a bit of time before we judge them

Stupid points from a stupid poster.

Morton is better than Masten and always will be.

 

[kane249]

Stupid points from a stupid poster.

Morton is better than Masten and always will be.

What exactly did Buddy and Roughead show in their first year prey tell? Both were raw as and didn't do anything exceptional.

Judd still miles ahead of Hodge? so Hodge's Norm Smith, All-Australian's and premiership count for nought? Ask any Hawks supporter if they regret taking Hodge over Judd and see how many agree with you.

So you can excuse Riewoldt being injured in his first year, but not Masten? Bit of a hypocritical situation don't you think?

Masten's in his second year coming off OP and people want to write him off already, it's laughable and anyone doing so is stupid to do so. I bet you thought Fiora was a better player then Pavlich a year and a half into their careers as well.

Why don't you actually give players time to develop and judge then instead of jumping the gun?

 

[Trav 20]

whilst Morton gets cheap kicks off the half back falnk.

Morton has played less than 4 games at HB in his 30 games to date. The first game he played down back was in round 7 versus West Coast when Frawley and Rivers got injured during the game.

The 'cheap kicks' theory is regurgitated to disparage another club's player by drones who only know how to parrot others. The view being that if you're not presently a strong contested ball winner then you are only good for 'cheap kicks'. It shows poor insight into the game and a shallow understanding of modern zones and set-plays. Morton is a creative ball user with a huge engine. Other players are encouraged to get the ball into his hands.

In reality, you know little about our players or our list. Thanks for playing though.

 

[Trav 20]

source please

On Demonland the site owner gave a report on a club function on the Gold Coast before last Saturday night's game against St. Kilda.

One small part contains:

"Chris then introduced Cale Morton and Jack Grimes and commented that Cale was now up to 194 cm. He's been working on getting his weight up and is now up to 83 kg. His parents have moved to Melbourne from WA and the family is well entrenched there with his brothers playing for Richmond and Hawthorn respectively.

Chris remarked how both Cale and Jack have a fantastic work ethic, both are strong aerobic runners with elite level 15 + beep tests. These things are important because they raise the level of training for the whole club."


The Chris referred to at the top of the paragragh is Chris Connolly the General Manager of football operations.

Link to full report:

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=15138

 

[Bombers1234]

Morton has played less than 4 games at HB in his 30 games to date. The first game he played down back was in round 7 versus West Coast when Frawley and Rivers got injured during the game.

The 'cheap kicks' theory is regurgitated to disparage another club's player by drones who only know how to parrot others. The view being that if you're not presently a strong contested ball winner then you are only good for 'cheap kicks'. It shows poor insight into the game and a shallow understanding of modern zones and set-plays. Morton is a creative ball user with a huge engine. Other players are encouraged to get the ball into his hands.

In reality, you know little about our players or our list. Thanks for playing though.

Lol i know that i would rather a top 5 draft pick who can win his own ball AND use it on the outside effectively, rather than a player who relies on being fed the ball, unless he is a sublime user.

I haven't seen enough from Morton to suggest that he is an elite kick or a in and under type, that's why i'm questioning if he can live up to the expectations of a #4 draft pick.

Outside players do have an important role in modern footy, but players who win their own ball will always be the champions of the game. Thats why the likes of Ablett, Judd, Mitchell etc are more valuable then Dal Santo, Wells and Swan.

 

[coasting]

Masten ready made? You have to got to be taking the piss. Masten came in seriously undersized (which affects his position as inside mid MUCH more than Morton's size would) and with OP? How is that ready made.

Give it a few years and then come back to it.

Stop using OP and size as an excuse. He has a small frame and is not going to get much bigger. He was 2nd in the Eagles time trial earlier this year. In any event, fitness isn't an impediment to winning the hardball, which the pro-Masten people in this thread somehow think is one of his strengths? Maybe in the u18s but it has yet to translate to AFL level and might not ever translate to AFL level.

The truth is Masten has shown very little at AFL level. He has played a good quarter here and there but overall he has struggled. Up forward he doesn't kick goals. In the midfield he has been beaten by just about every opponent this year, and occassionally not just beaten but destroyed by his opponent - like in the Collingwood game.

Sure he could significantly improve but I seriously doubt it. Its looking like a busted pick to me. In Emma Quayles book several teams didn't have Masten in the top 10 and they look to be correct and the Eagles wrong. Taken with the 3rd pick in the draft but looks and plays like a 3rd rounder.

 

[anti.]

so you've written his career off then, coasting?

 

[coasting]

so you've written his career off then, coasting?

No I never said that at all?

I want him to succeed as much as the next Eagles fan.

I just don't think he will live up to the billing of the 3rd pick in the draft.

 

[wce4premiership]

I would be pretty peeved watching Morton go if I were an Eagles fan.

I'm not

I'm glad we picked masten i think he'll get a LOT better

 

[Trav 20]

Lol i know that i would rather a top 5 draft pick who can win his own ball AND use it on the outside effectively, rather than a player who relies on being fed the ball, unless he is a sublime user.

I haven't seen enough from Morton to suggest that he is an elite kick or a in and under type, that's why i'm questioning if he can live up to the expectations of a #4 draft pick.

Outside players do have an important role in modern footy, but players who win their own ball will always be the champions of the game. Thats why the likes of Ablett, Judd, Mitchell etc are more valuable then Dal Santo, Wells and Swan.

I'm going to be nice and assume that you're not the smartest bloke. Morton is a stick insect in his second year. He's 19. The player you see now is very different to the player you'll see in 3-4 years time. This year he leads our club in possessions when some of his peers - with more mature bodies, aren't even getting a regular game at their respective club. Importantly, almost 20% of his possessions are already contested, but this aspect of his game will improve as he develops into his frame. His marking will get better as he develops into his frame - he's now 194cms. He'll gain in confidence as a player as he develops into his frame.

Ablett jnr averaged 15 possessions per game in his first 100 league games, but averages 30 subsequently. It was 6 years into his career before he developed an engine and an understanding of what's required to play elite football, yet you're pidgeon holing Morton as an outside player half way through his second year.

Do yourself a favour. Take a deep breath, study up a bit, and come back to the forums in a couple of years.

Good luck.

 

[Mattman93]

Stupid points from a stupid poster.

Morton is better than Masten and always will be.

Hypocrite.

 

[TheBigUnit]

Stop using OP and size as an excuse. He has a small frame and is not going to get much bigger. He was 2nd in the Eagles time trial earlier this year. In any event, fitness isn't an impediment to winning the hardball, which the pro-Masten people in this thread somehow think is one of his strengths? Maybe in the u18s but it has yet to translate to AFL level and might not ever translate to AFL level.

I don't think you appreciate the challenges OP presents. OP significantly affects balance, agility and power/explosiveness. Balance (specifically being able to keep your feet whilst being buffeted) is an absolutely crucial component to winning hardball.

It takes a while to fully recover from OP - it's certainly not an injury you can rehabilitate quickly back to pre-injury fitness levels. You are limited in what type of training and how much training volume you can handle. Masten needs time to fully recover and catch up from limited pre-seasons in 07/08 and 08/09.

There is a MASSIVE difference between the fitness demands required to run a 2km vs playing 4 quarters of AFL in the midfield.

Where does it say in EQ book that several teams rated Masten out of the top 10? I can only find Hawthorn's top 25 and Adelaide's top 10 released (as per this link) - Hawthorn ranked him 4 and Adelaide didn't have him in their top 10.

 

[whelan=legend]

I seem to recall another number 3 pick whos slow start to his career was blamed on OP.

 

[mitchzz]

I think that Morton is the better player now but Masten has the ability to become an elite player.

Once he has added some extra kg's and is playing in the midfield with better gametime after a full pre-season then I think we'll see what he can do.

I think it's too early to compare or write these players off yet.

 

[Bombers1234]

I'm going to be nice and assume that you're not the smartest bloke. Morton is a stick insect in his second year. He's 19. The player you see now is very different to the player you'll see in 3-4 years time. This year he leads our club in possessions when some of his peers - with more mature bodies, aren't even getting a regular game at their respective club. Importantly, almost 20% of his possessions are already contested, but this aspect of his game will improve as he develops into his frame. His marking will get better as he develops into his frame - he's now 194cms. He'll gain in confidence as a player as he develops into his frame.

Ablett jnr averaged 15 possessions per game in his first 100 league games, but averages 30 subsequently. It was 6 years into his career before he developed an engine and an understanding of what's required to play elite football, yet you're pidgeon holing Morton as an outside player half way through his second year.

Do yourself a favour. Take a deep breath, study up a bit, and come back to the forums in a couple of years.

Good luck.

Geez... talk about getting defensive, no need to get so uptight champ.

Its not just about his AFL career you idiot, who was the one feeding out the ball to Morton and Palmer during the U/18s championships?

He will never ever match the ball winning ability of Masto or Cotchin and thats a fact. Sure he may be better at getting possesions on the outside, but those are a dime a dozen and not worthy of a #4 pick IMO.

I see Masten improving out of sight with a bigger body because he will be able to win the ball against bigger bodied opponents, but Morton will continue to play as an outsider unless he changes his approach which he has had since his junior days.

I'm not suprised he is winning the poll because his role is much easier to play then Masten's but Masten will end up a far better player IMO.

Even if he doesn't, at least he can say that he never shat himself on the footy field and ran away like a little girl.

 

[Geelong63]

I think that Morton is the better player now but Masten has the ability to become an elite player.

Once he has added some extra kg's and is playing in the midfield with better gametime after a full pre-season then I think we'll see what he can do.

I think it's too early to compare or write these players off yet.

LMAO


The only way that Masten will become an elite player is if he drops out of the AFL and plays in the WAFL (handy player at best)


A couple of West Coast supporter mates of mine are spew'n that they took Masten over Morton......................Bad Mistake


Morton will become the Elite Player (upside has so much more potential)