Review Cats back in business after smashing Hawks by 82 points at the G

[Partridge]

As of early 2021 we were, and Stewart's 4-weeker last year would've bumped us up a bit too. Tigers are doing well with Broad's 4-week and Lynch's tribunal hearing today. Clear air to third nowadays.

The suspension ladder: Whose bad boys keep getting banned?

Guess how many games your club has missed through suspension over the past 10 years

www.afl.com.au

Would be nice to see the breakup of those totals though. If it's 10 years it would still have stuff from when Johnson stupidly got himself done 4 times in one year. That's pretty irrelevant to the present team. And if you take out the two worst instances (Stewart last year, Hawkins in 2019), there's 8 matches gone from that total straight away. There's no one else to blame for those ones.

 

[cats_09]

This the MRO/Tribunal guidelines that would cover both the Rohan & Day reports:

3. Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackles)
The application of a tackle may be considered Rough Conduct which is unreasonable in the circumstances. In determining whether the application of a tackle constitutes a Reportable Offence and whether the offence is Careless or Intentional, without limitation, regard may be had to the following factors, whether:

• » The tackle consists of more than one action, regardless of whether the Player being tackled is in possession of the ball;
• » The tackle is of an inherently dangerous kind, such as a spear tackle or a tackle where a Player is lifted off the ground;
• » The Player being tackled is in a vulnerable position (e.g. arm(s) pinned) with little opportunity to protect himself;
• » An opponent is slung, driven or rotated into the ground with excessive force.

And this is part of the Impact guidelines:

(B) IMPACT
Consideration will be given as to whether the Impact is Low, Medium, High or Severe. In determining the level of Impact, regard will be had to several factors.

Firstly, consideration will be given to the extent of force and in particular, any injury sustained by the Player who was offended against. The absence of injury does not preclude the classification of impact as Severe.

Secondly, the potential to cause injury must be factored into the determination of Impact, particularly in the following cases:

• » Any dangerous tackle.

It really feels like this season that the "potential to cause" injury aspect is getting factored into high contact bumps & rough conduct (dangerous tackles) MRO decisions so far this season, and that they're upgrading the impact by a factor of one from what one would expect the incident to be graded

 

[Back One Out]

This the MRO/Tribunal guidelines that would cover both the Rohan & Day reports:

3. Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackles)
The application of a tackle may be considered Rough Conduct which is unreasonable in the circumstances. In determining whether the application of a tackle constitutes a Reportable Offence and whether the offence is Careless or Intentional, without limitation, regard may be had to the following factors, whether:

• » The tackle consists of more than one action, regardless of whether the Player being tackled is in possession of the ball;
• » The tackle is of an inherently dangerous kind, such as a spear tackle or a tackle where a Player is lifted off the ground;
• » The Player being tackled is in a vulnerable position (e.g. arm(s) pinned) with little opportunity to protect himself;
• » An opponent is slung, driven or rotated into the ground with excessive force.

And this is part of the Impact guidelines:

(B) IMPACT
Consideration will be given as to whether the Impact is Low, Medium, High or Severe. In determining the level of Impact, regard will be had to several factors.

Firstly, consideration will be given to the extent of force and in particular, any injury sustained by the Player who was offended against. The absence of injury does not preclude the classification of impact as Severe.

Secondly, the potential to cause injury must be factored into the determination of Impact, particularly in the following cases:

• » Any dangerous tackle.

It really feels like this season that the "potential to cause" injury aspect is getting factored into high contact bumps & rough conduct (dangerous tackles) MRO decisions so far this season, and that they're upgrading the impact by a factor of one from what one would expect the incident to be graded

So let's see if I can understand the AFL's rationale...


1) We will remove all the subjectivity and inconsistency from the MRO/Tribunal process by implementing a structured grading system with tables and set penalties.

2) But in the "Impact" section, we will randomly, subjectively and arbitrarily apply a clause titled "potential to cause injury" which undermines our whole system of "set penalties" and reintroduces the type of MRO inconsistency which angered the fans & clubs and necessitated the change to a grading system with set penalties.


Brilliant.

Well done, AFL.

 

[catstragic]

He is a poor man’s Tom Stewart, in playing style and looks…none of that is a knock either, he’s turned into a very reliable attacking defender.

This. Plays a similar game style and loves throwing the shoulder in off the ball at any opportunity.

 

[cats_09]

So let's see if I can understand the AFL's rationale...


1) We will remove all the subjectivity and inconsistency from the MRO/Tribunal process by implementing a structured grading system with tables and set penalties.

2) But in the "Impact" section, we will randomly, subjectively and arbitrarily apply a clause titled "potential to cause injury" which undermines our whole system of "set penalties" and reintroduces the type of MRO inconsistency which angered the fans & clubs and necessitated the change to a grading system and set penalties.


Brilliant.

Well done, AFL.

They're meant to factor the "potential to cause injury" into all of the following:

• » Intentional strikes, such as those with a swinging clenched fist, raised forearm or elbow;
• » High bumps, particularly with significant head contact and/or Player momentum;
• » Any head-high contact with a Player who has his head over the ball, particularly when contact is made from an opponent approaching from a front-on position;
• » Forceful swings that make head-high contact to a Player in a marking contest, ruck contest or when tackling;
• » Any contact that occurs when the Victim Player should not reasonably be expecting or is not reasonably prepared for contact (i.e. contact off the ball); and
• » Any dangerous tackle.

It means the MRO/Tribunal is essentially saying, "Player A, your action caused damage at a factor of X, but if things went differently it could have been damage at a level of Y, so we'll punish you at a impact level of Z"

 

[Catsace]

That would be true in the one season, but Geelong has lost 4 games in a row under CS, the two finals in 2014 against the Dawks and norf, and then the opening two rounds of 2015 versus the Dawks and Freo. We had a slow start to 2015, and kind of got back into contention before a late loss to the Pies and a draw to St.kilda. Plus that was the year of the 'drag the guernsey in the dirt' effort against the Dees at KP in Enright's 300th game. Wasn't our best season, but we got Danger as a recruit for 2016.

 

[Back One Out]

They're meant to factor the "potential to cause injury" into all of the following:

• » Intentional strikes, such as those with a swinging clenched fist, raised forearm or elbow;
• » High bumps, particularly with significant head contact and/or Player momentum;
• » Any head-high contact with a Player who has his head over the ball, particularly when contact is made from an opponent approaching from a front-on position;
• » Forceful swings that make head-high contact to a Player in a marking contest, ruck contest or when tackling;
• » Any contact that occurs when the Victim Player should not reasonably be expecting or is not reasonably prepared for contact (i.e. contact off the ball); and
• » Any dangerous tackle.

It means the MRO/Tribunal is essentially saying, "Player A, your action caused damage at a factor of X, but if things went differently it could have been damage at a level of Y, so we'll punish you at a impact level of Z"

It's ludicrous.

Phillip Hughes was bounced by Sean Abbott, hitting him right under his ear, compressing his vertebral artery and causing a fatal brain haemorrhage.
From this freak incident, it can be concluded that EVERY short-pitched delivery in cricket has the potential to cause death.

The AFL's approach to this would be to suspend anyone who bowls a bouncer, but applying random impact gradings based mainly on how many times BT says "Boy oh boy! Wowee!"

The added variable in our sport is that the tackler cannot control the manner in which the tackled player collapses to the ground. It's not the same thing as a bowler aiming the ball at a batsman. Maybe Rohan has some element of control when both players are initially on their feet and he elects to sling tackle. But he loses all control once the sling is put into motion.

The Day tackle however, when low to the ground like that, is totally out of his hands. The AFL are basically saying his only choice is not to tackle. To let Close go midway through. How the hell do you train a footballer to tackle an opponent only halfway?


The scaremongering from CTE litigation is killing our game.

 

[foxdog50]

I really hope this is the start of the switch been turned on for the season...

 

[FredLeDeux]

I really hope this is the start of the switch been turned on for the season...

Aaah, that's been the ******* problem, the switch is upside down!

 

[foxdog50]

People thinking we would lose that seriously overrating that Hawks team.
They are horrible

Was always going to happen

Was good game to watch hey Calder... my most hated team Hawthorn are

 

[calder_daddy]

Was good game to watch hey Calder... my most hated team Hawthorn are

Brisbane for me
Every day of the week, a weak pathetic club ran and played by sooks

 

[Willo_]

Why is a Hawk fan in here expecting a single one of us to give a * that his man got 2 weeks? Days looked worse as he drove Close's head into the ground. Rohans looked bad but also was a lot of momentum swinging himself around with his feet not on the ground, because it looked bad he is very lucky that CJ didn't appear to really get any/much head contact with the ground.
Both gradings seemed about right to me with how they are doing it... Arguably Rohan just a fine and Day 1 week, but still the difference between the 2 assessments I think was fine

 

[Vdubs]

If Rohan is suspended I don’t understand the rule.

he is, and it was a full-on twist 270deg and sling tackle- not allowed and deemed to be dangerous, despite the lack of repercussions in this case.

 

[calder_daddy]

Why is a Hawk fan in here expecting a single one of us to give a * that his man got 2 weeks? Days looked worse as he drove Close's head into the ground. Rohans looked bad but also was a lot of momentum swinging himself around with his feet not on the ground, because it looked bad he is very lucky that CJ didn't appear to really get any/much head contact with the ground.
Both gradings seemed about right to me with how they are doing it... Arguably Rohan just a fine and Day 1 week, but still the difference between the 2 assessments I think was fine

he is, and it was a full-on twist 270deg and sling tackle- not allowed and deemed to be dangerous, despite the lack of repercussions in this case.

Rohan is extremely lucky that Jiath was able to get his right arm free at the last minute
If he couldn’t then Rohan would’ve been missing more than Day.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Rohan is extremely lucky that Jiath was able to get his right arm free at the last minute
If he couldn’t then Rohan would’ve been missing more than Day.

Agree

On a related topic…who replaces Rohan? I assume Henry comes into the 22 but then we need a sub

(Assuming SDK comes in for Bews)…. Do they go for a MF as sub (Parf/Bruhn) or a foward replacement (Simpson/Dempsey?)

My bet is Simpson comes in as sub…. Thoughts?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It's ludicrous.

Phillip Hughes was bounced by Sean Abbott, hitting him right under his ear, compressing his vertebral artery and causing a fatal brain haemorrhage.
From this freak incident, it can be concluded that EVERY short-pitched delivery in cricket has the potential to cause death.

The AFL's approach to this would be to suspend anyone who bowls a bouncer, but applying random impact gradings based mainly on how many times BT says "Boy oh boy! Wowee!"

The added variable in our sport is that the tackler cannot control the manner in which the tackled player collapses to the ground. It's not the same thing as a bowler aiming the ball at a batsman. Maybe Rohan has some element of control when both players are initially on their feet and he elects to sling tackle. But he loses all control once the sling is put into motion.

The Day tackle however, when low to the ground like that, is totally out of his hands. The AFL are basically saying his only choice is not to tackle. To let Close go midway through. How the hell do you train a footballer to tackle an opponent only halfway?


The scaremongering from CTE litigation is killing our game.

Well said.

 

[Partridge]

Funny, the incident that caused the most damage and was easiest to avoid doing is also the one punished least harshly. Although I bet if Hawkins started doing that he'd get two weeks for it.

Bet he wouldn't. The last two times he's been up he's gotten off. The notion that he's persecuted is complete fantasy.

 

[catstragic]

Did Jiath's head hit the ground?

Rohan shouldn't have been cited at all.

It should be low impact.

Im ok with a week for Rohan. As soon as you spin a player in a tackle then onus is on you to prevent head contact. Much more equitable pinging everyone for the action rather than the outcome. The Close one was worse as it was intentional (as opposed to the Rohan gyroscope not even touching the ground). + we shouldn't need Rohan for WC, and im in favor of preventing as much wear and tear on the guy as possible, we need him fit this year if we want to make something of the season.

 

[Back One Out]

Why is a Hawk fan in here expecting a single one of us to give a * that his man got 2 weeks?

This is the only club board on Big Footy I ever bother reading or posting on. Been posting here intermittently for the past 15 years. I've always been respectful, even when one-eyed mad Catters have stuck their claws into me. I've always been conscious of treading softly and not wearing out my welcome. Never had any problems with the Mods in here. Never been trolling here, despite my previously well-earned, but now undeserved reputation as a shitfighter on other boards

Funny how I became somewhat attached to this board , but it's just the way it is... ¯\(ツ)/¯ It started out as me wondering "What are they saying about us?" and over the years just developed into me liking the general quality of discussion on this board. (suck, suck ). I was never really interested in the Hawks board. Preferred robust discussions with oppo fans on the main board and with Cats fans in here. Same goes for footy discussion at the pub - I prefer yakking to opposition fans.

I don't normally post here about the Hawks. I first saw the MRO news about Day and Rohan here in this thread and posted my honest shocked reaction.

For me, it's not really a club v club thing. I don't get any glee from seeing opposition players suspended. Hawthorn are fookin' shite and I'm feeling pretty numb about the AFL, so us losing Day for 2 matches doesn't bother me. For me, this is more of a wider "AFL WTF???" issue.

 

[Chinacats]

I really hope this is the start of the switch been turned on for the season...

Against tin pot opposition? Wait a bit!

 

[Chinacats]

This is the only club board on Big Footy I ever bother reading or posting on. Been posting here intermittently for the past 15 years. I've always been respectful, even when others have been rude to me. I've always been conscious of treading softly and not wearing out my welcome. Never had any problems with the Mods in here. Never been trolling here, despite my previously well-earned, but now undeserved reputation as a shitfighter on other boards

Funny how I became somewhat attached to this board , but it's just the way it is... ¯\(ツ)/¯ It started out as me wondering "What are they saying about us?" and over the years just developed into me liking the discussions you had. I was never really interested in the Hawks board. Preferred robust discussions with oppo fans on the main board and with Cats fans in here. Same goes for footy discussion at the pub - I prefer yakking to opposition fans.

I don't normally post here about the Hawks. I first saw the MRO news about Day and Rohan here in this thread and posted my honest shocked reaction.

For me, it's not really a club v club thing. I don't get any glee from seeing opposition players suspended. Hawthorn are shite and I'm feeling pretty numb about the AFL, so us losing Day for 2 matches doesn't bother me. For me, this is more of a wider "AFL WTF???" issue.

Yeah tread very softly! Any realist views will be punished quite quickly! Good luck for the season and rebuild!

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Final thoughts after watching the 2nd half again

Guthrie the centreman - some are bagging him bigtime - i thought he played ok

Duncan has been a sensational player for the Cats - 1st game back - i know he got alot of possessions - and 8 coaches votes but i thought quite a few were dinky little chip passes - him and Stewart love waxing short passes

I thought Miers/Close/Stengle - the 3 small forwards all played very well

Holmes and Smith both very good with their genuine leg speed

Rohan will be missed this week - hes got that lightning quick speed - either hitting the contest - or chasing down defenders - which O Henry will never have

In fact if Geelong get their full team Premiership team available again - with Holmes taking Joels spot obviously - then i dont think any of those 3 new players will get a game - none of them are better than any of the premiership players - with the exception of Parfitts sub spot - O Henry might get that - but Bruhn and Bowes wont be seen in Sept - if Geel have got all their premiership players available

 

[Mr Meow]

Final thoughts after watching the 2nd half again

Guthrie the centreman - some are bagging him bigtime - i thought he played ok

Duncan has been a sensational player for the Cats - 1st game back - i know he got alot of possessions - and 8 coaches votes but i thought quite a few were dinky little chip passes - him and Stewart love waxing short passes

I thought Miers/Close/Stengle - the 3 small forwards all played very well

Holmes and Smith both very good with their genuine leg speed

Rohan will be missed this week - hes got that lightning quick speed - either hitting the contest - or chasing down defenders - which O Henry will never have

In fact if Geelong get their full team Premiership team available again - with Holmes taking Joels spot obviously - then i dont think any of those 3 new players will get a game - none of them are better than any of the premiership players - with the exception of Parfitts sub spot - O Henry might get that - but Bruhn and Bowes wont be seen in Sept - if Geel have got all their premiership players available

Guthrie's only real issue in the Hawthorn game was his disposal. If you plug his 2022 disposal efficiency into the Carlton and Hawthorn games I'd say he ends up getting a tick on both of them. Maybe a confidence issue but I'd be more worried if he was not fighting at contests or getting hands to the ball.

Duncan and Stewart balance short kicks that take the pressure off while something may open up, and then directly damaging ones. A bit like Tuohy at his best. Don't underestimate how important and relieving it is for Duncan to present as an option up those wings and across half back. If you have a reliable user to bail out too you stop a whole lot of panic and fumbles during transition.

Agreed about the small forwards and wingers. Holmes and Close in particular seemed to have their mojo back and when they play at that intensity we can go coast to coast a lot easier.

I agree about Rohan, he creates havoc even if he has inconsistency in actually getting the ball. I really like O.Henry in the role he had as impact sub rather than starter but although they have different strengths, IF O.Henry starts I think it makes more sense in a team without Rohan. It also looks like he's working on the defensive side of his game but that may be a longer term goal.

I'd be inclined to agree on the last point. Although I have to say Tuohy is not setting the world alight, he's been worse than Bowes so far. I'd expect him to come good. If we have injuries to any of Duncan, Tuohy, Smith or Holmes then I would expect Bowes is first in line for any of those spots. I think all 3 will play a lot more 2024 onwards, injuries or not.

 

[Back One Out]

Yeah tread very softly! Any realist views will be punished quite quickly! Good luck for the season and rebuild!

My final contribution to this thread will be: The reports of Geelong's demise are greatly exaggerated.

I wouldn't be giving them away just yet. History says it's bloody difficult for any team to win B2B flags, and it would be understandable for this Geelong team to lose a little bit of the hunger and desire which drove them on from 2020 to 2022.

If you held a gun to my head and asked me to pick this year's Grand Final result, I would say Melbourne defeats Collingwood by 6 goals

But I reckon all the other teams in finals contention are total pretenders: Brisbane, Sydney, Carlton, Richmond, Bulldogs, Saints, Port
None of them are really up to scratch. It's gonna be a log-jam of teams on 13/14 wins. The Blues will probably manage 15 wins with their easy draw and protected species status.

Geelong are really the only team capable of knocking over the Dees or Pies this September. So you just have to hang in there, keep chipping away, bank the wins and get there to be a chance. You guys have undeniably the league's best home ground advantage with all 9 home games at KP still to come. That's 7 or 8 wins right there. Plus the 2 victories in Rounds 4/5 over the AFL chopping blocks, which makes 9, 10 wins...

You just need to split the remaining games to be right in the mix: Win 3 of [Ess, Rich, Coll, St K, WB] and win 2 of [Freo, Port, Syd, Bris]

That's very do-able.

The Cats proved what a great team they were in 2022 without a massive contribution from Selwood, Danger or Duncan. It was Geelong's evenness all around the ground and superior coaching which got the job done for 16 successive weeks.. It was their team's discipline, structure, 2-way run, rock solid defence and unshakeable belief in what they were doing. You don't lose that over one summer.

Probably also helps your cause to have the league's best player, Cameron working alongside the wily old behemoth, Hawkins.

 

[catempire]

he is, and it was a full-on twist 270deg and sling tackle- not allowed and deemed to be dangerous, despite the lack of repercussions in this case.

I clearly don’t understand it then. I thought they wanted to stop players dangerously slinging the player with the ball. Rohan doesn’t do that. An elementary understanding of physics and momentum is all that’s required to see that.

Hint: watch Rohan’s feet throughout the tackle.