Census will allow Australians to identify as 'other' for both sex and gender

[Lester Burnham]

No.

You were born as a male. Why do you require a birth certificate that states you were born female?

 

[kirsti]

You were born as a male. Why do you require a birth certificate that states you were born female?

To enable me to be treated legally as my true gender.

As I stated in a previous post I had to meet a stringent criteria to qualify to have my gender marker altered to my true female gender.

 

[Lester Burnham]

To enable me to be treated legally as my true gender.

This is what I am saying. You were born male and that is on your birth certificate. Your birth certificate is accurate in that you were born male. But if you wish to be treated legally as a female perhaps there needs to be a different certificate that reflects your current gender status.

 

[kirsti]

This is what I am saying. You were born male and that is on your birth certificate. Your birth certificate is accurate in that you were born male. But if you wish to be treated legally as a female perhaps there needs to be a different certificate that reflects your current gender status.

My current gender status is female that is why I hold a female birth certificate.

No where on my birth certificate does it state I am male as is the case with all female birth certificates.

 

[kirsti]

: Are transgender people born that way, or do they become that later?


LIKELY CAUSES
There is strong evidence that most transgender people are born with a predisposition to being transgender that was formed prenatally. Generally gender identity seems to be fully formed before age 6 and then becomes very difficult to change or influence later.

There are thought to be 3 major factors in development, Chemical/Hormonal, Genetic and Environmental.

We know from brain studies that men and women have small yet specific and identifiable structures in the brain that are different in size and proportion. When the brains of transgender persons are analyzed they almost always consistently match the bain structure of their adopted gender not their birth sex. Male to female transsexuals have female brain structures. These changes are thought to be caused due to hormonal or chemical imbalances that cause the wrong hormones to be expressed by the mother prenatally. The sample sizes are small in these studies due to the low number of transgender persons brains for medical study after death but research is ongoing. There is a consistent trend even with the small and growing sample size.


BRAIN DEVELOPMENT
During one stage of a baby's development if the mothers body produces male hormones the babies genitals will become male and if the mother produces female hormones then the genitals will be female. This can even happen in opposition to the genetic sex of the baby.

There is also a second wash of sex hormones that occurs while the brain is developing. It is thought by some researchers that crossing the wrong hormones at that time is what leads to transgender issues. Studies with animals has shown that purposely giving the animal the wrong hormones during that brain development stage will even cause the animal to exhibit mating behaviors of the opposite sex even if the genitals match their genetic sex.

Genetics may also play a part in the hormones not being as effective or the baby being more sensitive to hormonal imbalances that might cause Gender Issues and the child to become Transgender. So two of the three are in some way hormonally based and prenatal hormones can be affected by stress, medications, pollutants, disease and numerous other things.

The last factor is the environment that children grow up in but that seems to be the least likely cause. The simple fact is that children raised in an environment with other same sex siblings only a year or two apart can still show gender nonconformity even though no other siblings do

 

[Lester Burnham]

How is this a logical consequence?

Your argument implies that female athletes from a trans background do not have an advantage over natural females. And also that male athletes do not necessarily have an advantage over women.

You ask how do I deal with assumptions from others that I and other female athletes from a trans background may be stronger or have an advantage from being born in a male body. I give them this to consider;

1.Not all males are bigger, stronger, faster than females.

2.Being born a male does not automatically make you a better athlete.

3.Females come in all shapes and sizes for instance Lauren Jackson and Lyn Savage and Martina Navratalova. Should these ladies have been banned just because they were naturally bigger or stronger than the majority of other females.

4. I have been presented with the argument that just because a person grows up in a male body that they are more aggressive and can fight better, do we ban any female from contact sports if they have a martial arts background also
​

So why not have one combined competition, regardless of identification as males or females for each event?

 

[mehow2g]

It's getting tough being a white heterosexual male cannot question anything with out being anti something, every race/religion/gender has more rights than a white straight male.

I just saw in the news Perth has female carpark's because males are so dangerous, if I questioned it ill be seen as anti something that been made up somewhere.

Don't hate its true.

 

[kirsti]

Your argument implies that female athletes from a trans background do not have an advantage over natural females and also that male athletes do not necessarily have an advantage over women.

You ask how do I deal with assumptions from others that I and other female athletes from a trans background may be stronger or have an advantage from being born in a male body. I give them this to consider;

1.Not all males are bigger, stronger, faster than females.

2.Being born a male does not automatically make you a better athlete.

3.Females come in all shapes and sizes for instance Lauren Jackson and Lyn Savage and Martina Navratalova. Should these ladies have been banned just because they were naturally bigger or stronger than the majority of other females.

4. I have been presented with the argument that just because a person grows up in a male body that they are more aggressive and can fight better, do we ban any female from contact sports if they have a martial arts background also
​

So why not have one combined competition, regardless of identification as males or females for each event?

It is not just my argument it is the findings of the Stockholm Consensus that determined that female athletes from a trans background do not have an advantage over genetically born females at two years post operative.

 

[kirsti]

It's getting tough being a white heterosexual male cannot question anything with out being anti something, every race/religion/gender has more rights than a white straight male.

I just saw in the news Perth has female carpark's because males are so dangerous, if I questioned it ill be seen as anti something that been made up somewhere.

Don't hate its true.

Why don't they just make the car park safer for everyone.

Can you be more specific with what rights you feel you are missing out on?

 

[mehow2g]

Why don't they just make the car park safer for everyone.

Good question.

It does create a divide between genders does it not?

 

[Lester Burnham]

It is not just my argument it is the findings of the Stockholm Consensus that determined that female athletes from a trans background do not have an advantage over genetically born females at two years post operative.

But you also make four separate points arguing that males are not intrinsically superior to females at sport. Why not have one combined competition, regardless of identification as males or females, for each event?

 

[Lester Burnham]

My current gender status is female that is why I hold a female birth certificate.

If you hold a birth certificate that states you were born female then it is inaccurate.

 

[kirsti]

But you also make four separate points arguing that males are not intrinsically superior to females at sport. Why not have one combined competition, regardless of identification as males or females, for each event?

Maybe some sports could be combined and have athletes categorised in weight and age divisions.

Do you suggest we should combine all sports?

 

[kirsti]

If you hold a birth certificate that states you were born female then it is inaccurate.

i take offence to your suggestion that my birth certificate is not accurate.

 

[Scotland]

My current gender status is female that is why I hold a female birth certificate.

No where on my birth certificate does it state I am male as is the case with all female birth certificates.

Yes but you were born a male, as you have said. If you were born male then your birth certificate should read as such.

That's what a birth certificate is - a record of being born.

To the best of my knowledge my birth certificate lists my name, my date of birth, the hospital in which I was born, the names of my parents and the fact I am a male. There might be more info than that, but I honestly haven't seen it since I applied for a passport and don't intend to look at it any time soon.

I don't want to trivialise things but how much of that information is flexible? I'd argue none.

 

[kirsti]

Yes but you were born a male, as you have said. If you were born male then your birth certificate should read as such.

That's what a birth certificate is - a record of being born.

To the best of my knowledge my birth certificate lists my name, my date of birth, the hospital in which I was born, the names of my parents and the fact I am a male. There might be more info than that, but I honestly haven't seen it since I applied for a passport and don't intend to look at it any time soon.

I don't want to trivialise things but how much of that information is flexible? I'd argue none.

I was born as a female trapped in the wrong body, I have met all medical and legal requirements to have my gender marker corrected to reflect my legal status as a female.

What makes a male a male or a female a female, I suggest it is our brain because that is who we are.

As I posted in post #130 it explains the reasons why people like myself have a female brain. Very early on in my transition I was subjected to numerous tests to determine that I had a female thinking brain.

 

[Scotland]

I was born as a female trapped in the wrong body, I have met all medical and legal requirements to have my gender marker corrected to reflect my legal status as a female.

For a transgender person to have their gender marker altered in Australia they must firstly have had gender reassignment surgery completed, for a male to female trans person two medical practitioners must examine the person to ascertain if all male external genatalia has been removed. The medical practitioners must each document a statutory declaration from births deaths and marriages confirming that the gender reassignment surgery has been undertaken. If a trans person is married the current laws in Australia require the person to be granted a divorce prior to being able to apply for a new birth certificate.

I was born in a male body and underwent gender reassignment surgery in 2006. I had to have my divorce finalised prior to me being issued with a female birth certificate in 2006.

I don't deny your journey to become who you are today, but you were in your own words born a male.

AFAIC if people are applying for new birth certificates then Births, Deaths & Marriages needs to be updated.

 

[kirsti]

In

I don't deny your journey to become who you are today, but you were in your own words born a male.

AFAIC if people are applying for new birth certificates then Births, Deaths & Marriages needs to be updated.

I always felt I was born a female in the wrong body.

What is AFAIC?

What do you suggest defines a woman or a man?

 

[Scotland]

AFAIC = as far as I'm concerned.

Should Caitlyn Jenner's birth certificate read 'born: Caitlyn Jenner, female'?

 

[kirsti]

AFAIC = as far as I'm concerned.

Should Caitlyn Jenner's birth certificate read 'born: Caitlyn Jenner, female'?

If she meets the medical and legal requirements to alter her birth certificate defiantly yes.

To reply to your previous statement that births deaths and marriages should be updated it was over ten years ago which enabled me to be granted my correct birth certificate.

I asked you previously what do you believe defines a man or a woman?

 

[The_Reaper]

Don't see a reason not to take kirsti for her word.

There are pretty obvious mental differences between men and women despite what the "gender is a social construct" bullshit peddlers would like us to think

 

[kirsti]

Don't see a reason not to take kirsti for her word.

There are pretty obvious mental differences between men and women despite what the "gender is a social construct" bullshit peddlers would like us to think

Thankyou so much I guess some people will never get it. I am a strong woman and I happy to partake in respectful discussions with other about transgender issues as I suggest education is the key but like I said some boofheads' will just never get it.

 

[Toump Ass]

Your argument implies that female athletes from a trans background do not have an advantage over natural females. And also that male athletes do not necessarily have an advantage over women.

My understanding is that gender reassignment surgery and two years of hormone therapy would eradicate any physical advantages a female born as a man would have. If anything a transwoman would be disadvantaged, because they no longer produce testosterone, while cisgendered women would.

I think that's how it works?

 

[kirsti]

Absolutely you have got the gift of it.

 

[kirsti]

My understanding is that gender reassignment surgery and two years of hormone therapy would eradicate any physical advantages a female born as a man would have. If anything a transwoman would be disadvantaged, because they no longer produce testosterone, while cisgendered women would.

I think that's how it works?

Absolutely you have the gift of it.