Changes - next year

[Tommo]

I think we are beyond looking for changes for the next game we should consider who we are going to say bye bye to at the end of the year.

These players are the likely to be on the chopping block as far as I am concerned:
Cook (Sad but has to happen for us to move forward and reward younger players)
Daniel Gilmore (Not going to get any better)
Walker (Not up to it)

These players are possible chops:
Browne (I think the club will back him but he like Haines is always injured)
Haddrill (see Browne)

Possible retirements
Parker (Could be his last year)
Macca (maybe but I hope not)

In the end the club has to drop 3 or something for the required draft picks.

Who won't be at the club next year?

 

[Kenny_01]

IN: Foster, Duffield, Ibbotson, Drum

OUT: Old & slow midfielders

 

[pinkus maximus]

the 3 obvious ones are macca cook and parker. all of them must go

browne has probably run out of chances

haddrill hopefully will make his way into the team before the season is out so we can make a beter judgement

IN: midfielders. actual ball winning midfielders,not tall utilities who can run

 

[Tommo]

I would like to see Foster assume a run with role. He will learn a lot and he has the tank. From all report Chris Smith could be a good shut down player too. We can't just drop M Carr, we have to replace him because as much as people bag him, he does the shut down job very well. Just look what Goodes did to us last year after Carr got injured in the final.

Apart from Bell and maybe Macca, I agree with Kenny. Not a big fan of Duffield though.

I would like to see Foster, Ibbo, Dunn, and eventually Smith and Collard given a red hot go next year.

 

[rgauci]

Possible trade targets Moody (Brisbane), Ray (Bulldogs).

Then a plethora of options depending on Pavlich's choice to stay or go. If Pavlich leaves i would expect to see Van Berlo at Fremantle. The kid is a gun.

I hope we make one or two trades to help the midfield but i wouldn't be keen going after a gun recruit. We must keep our first pick.

I like the way our list is constructed. Presuming we don't lose Pavlich. All the key components are their. Midfields are the easiest to build. Kids in their 2nd and 3rd and sometimes 1st years can make real contributions.

Look at Pendlebury, Murphy, Thomas who are all 2nd year players. They are making big contributions. Taller players take far longer to develop.

Our ruck division is solid. Could do with more depth. But another late pick or rookie spot for a ruckman is all we need.

So fear not people. Success is just around the corner.

 

[Rob]

Last night showed why we need a fit Haddrill. With McPharlin out we were clearly short in the backline with Thornton needing to match up on a decent player. He's simply not that good. Grover's in the same boat - he's a class above Thornton, but he's not big enough or good enough to be our main key defender.
If Haddrill was playing his best footy last night, we would have won the match.

But back to the original topic, Parker, Macca and Cook will all be playing their last seasons. Gilmore, Webster, Browne are probably 80% chances to go as well. 50/50's are Walker, Duffield and Haddrill (due to fitness concerns).
And it's time to stop *****ing our draft picks up against the wall and start recruiting kids.

 

[Tommo]

Trade for draft picks ONLY.

Heres an idea, how about for once we develop our own players.

Look at all the teams that play consistent finals, Trade a little and only when really needed, and recruit A LOT.

Traded players add a bit of improvement, they never make a the kind of difference that we are after.

 

[Rob]

Trade for draft picks ONLY.

Heres an idea, how about for once we develop our own players.

Look at all the teams that play consistent finals, Trade a little and only when really needed, and recruit A LOT.

Sydney?

But admittedly they're the exception rather than the norm. It's not the percentage thing to do.

 

[Tommo]

Sydney?

But admittedly they're the exception rather than the norm. It's not the percentage thing to do.

I had hoped that we could be like them, but it hasn't worked.
I don't think they traded for anyone in their midfield, but I could be wrong.

I think we can do a Geelong next year if we Draft right. They addressed their need, we must do the same. I agree with rgauci we are only a few quality young mids away.

We don't need a complete rebuild.

 

[sabre_ac]

Trade for draft picks ONLY.

Heres an idea, how about for once we develop our own players.

Look at all the teams that play consistent finals, Trade a little and only when really needed, and recruit A LOT.

Traded players add a bit of improvement, they never make a the kind of difference that we are after.

Freo's problem is we hunt the BIG trade targets.
We need to chase the lesser likes that come with the smaller price tag.

Moody could come cheaply, if we are going to trade either Murphy or Cambell picking up Moody and Ray wouldnt be out of the question.

Players like Pavlich come along very rarely, the fact is while he is in his prime we have to make the most of him.
Picking up a kid that is two years away is a gamble itself.

 

[dockshark]

I would like to see Foster assume a run with role. He will learn a lot and he has the tank. From all report Chris Smith could be a good shut down player too. We can't just drop M Carr, we have to replace him because as much as people bag him, he does the shut down job very well. Just look what Goodes did to us last year after Carr got injured in the final.

Apart from Bell and maybe Macca, I agree with Kenny. Not a big fan of Duffield though.

I would like to see Foster, Ibbo, Dunn, and eventually Smith and Collard given a red hot go next year.

We already have a replacement, move steven dodd back into this role and delist Carr

 

[ImperialPurple]

The club has done a lot right in the past few years with regards to drafting / recruiting.

In the past 4 or 5 years CC, Smart & co have brought in Schammer, Peake, Crowley, Mundy, Johnson, Murphy, Campbell, Dodd, Drum, Warnock, Ibbotson, Duffield, Collard - all of whom have played, and all of whom are good to excellent players. We also have a few "unknowns" - rough diamonds perhaps - in Foster, Smith, Mourish and O'Brien yet to get a game. No probs there - especially with guys like Johnno in the PSD, Warners at pick 42, and Crowley and Dodd through the rookie list...

And I have no problem with the recruitment of Josh Carr, Tarrant and Solomon in the past couple of years.

But they have been reluctant to cut guys in the past couple of years. CC certainly wielded the axe when he first arrived and for a couple of seasons after that - but in the past couple of years they have pretty much put all the eggs in the basket of the current list.

I reckon they need to get a bit ruthless. Old favourites need to be told - your time is up.

I'm assuming we keep Pav (fingers, toes and everything crossed); but this is who I'd like to say bye-bye to:

Parker (veteran, so doesn't affect the list)
Cook
Walker
Haddrill
MCarr - won't happen; but only give him a one-year deal for 2008.
Gilmore
Browne
Rumble (r)

Upgrade Foster

Macca to get one more year if he wants it - but he's a veteran outside the list so that is fine...

So that means we have 4 main list spots, and 3 rookie spots.

Our first 2-3 picks should be quick midfielders. At least one inside - preferably two, and as tall as we can get them. No more short, slow, big-bottomed mids (to quote the eminent Dr Dagg).

Another ruck to develop, + maybe use the mature aged rookie spot for an existing ruckman. Someone who is doing okay in the WAFL / VFL / SANFL - just as a back-up.

That's 4-5 of the 7 spots. The last 2-3 spots - whether they are rookie or late draft picks on "best available talent".

Maybe save a spot in the PSD once we know who will be available. If we are picking up 5 youngsters + a mature aged rookie, then there may be room to roll the dice on a recycled older player.

Fingers crossed that JLo gets himself right and can play out the next two years at least, and that Dunn can do something with one more year left on his current contract.

If Pav does stay, maybe consider trading either one of Murphy or Campbell and getting a pick; second rounder most likely I would think.

A key defender would be handy. I'm assuming that Haddrill is gorn.

 

[dockshark]

I think we are beyond looking for changes for the next game we should consider who we are going to say bye bye to at the end of the year.

These players are the likely to be on the chopping block as far as I am concerned:
Cook (Sad but has to happen for us to move forward and reward younger players)
Daniel Gilmore (Not going to get any better)
Walker (Not up to it)

These players are possible chops:
Browne (I think the club will back him but he like Haines is always injured)
Haddrill (see Browne)

Possible retirements
Parker (Could be his last year)
Macca (maybe but I hope not)

In the end the club has to drop 3 or something for the required draft picks.

Who won't be at the club next year?

I think that the way the game has evolved we can't really have hase, belly, and J.Carr in our starting midfield, this is gonna seem out there at first but hear me out.............at least one of these guys needs to be replaced in the starting midfield with a taller, faster, running type player and Macca has to go also to be replaced with a taller faster skillful, running interchange player. Macca, grandson, M Carr, Cooky and parker all delisted to make way for these changes and consideration to trading into draft picks to get the midfielders. Des Headland and Mundy to move forward permanently and Hadrill(god please let him stay fit) back into the side.

 

[dominguez]

Parker and Macca will retire, but because they are veterans they will only free up places on the rookie list, we still need to delist 3 other players.

Cook will retire, there's one.

Walker played his last game in Darwin, there's two.

If Longmuir retires he will still be on our list because he is contracted for next season.

Gilmore will be retained. Aslong as he is only used as our 5th ruckman behind Sandilands, Warnock, Longmuir and Johnson I don't have a problem with him getting one more year.

Matt Carr should retire but won't.

That leaves either Browne, Webster or Haddrill as the third delisting. Two will have to go if we want to promote Foster to the senior list. The only way that all 3 of Browne, Webster and Haddrill can stay on the list is if we trade a player for a draft pick. If Campbell has a big season and we are offered a first round pick I'd be keen to trade him, but apart from that I can't see us trading a player for a draft pick.

Assuming Pav stays and we miss the 8, we should pick up the best available 183+cm midfielder with our top 8 pick, another midfielder with either our 2nd or 3rd round pick, and both of our rookie draft picks should also be used on midfielders. We should also draft another ruckman in the 2nd or 3rd round if Longmuir isn't going to come back.

 

[Freo Hitman]

I think we need a change of coach and a coach who will be there to start putting a line through names right now . Chris Connolly wont be there next season. Thats why I think its a 2 horse race right now between Harvey and Sumich.

BTW I will state right now Andrew Swallow wants to be a Docker next year , he and his missus both west aussies getting married early next year and are extremely homesick & the Kanga's know the score dont be surprised if you see a Gilmore+Walker swap .

 

[dominguez]

I think we need a change of coach and a coach who will be there to start putting a line through names right now . Chris Connolly wont be there next season. Thats why I think its a 2 horse race right now between Harvey and Sumich.

BTW I will state right now Andrew Swallow wants to be a Docker next year , he and his missus both west aussies getting married early next year and are extremely homesick & the Kanga's know the score dont be surprised if you see a Gilmore+Walker swap .

Why go for Harvey or Sumich when Sheedy and/or Pagan might be available?

Why would the kangaroos want Gilmore? I can't see them going into trade week saying "we need to get our hands on a 187cm ruckman". Gilmore is crap, next year will be his last year of footy. Walker won't be on an AFL list next year, and I'll be extremely surprised if he plays game 151.

Andrew Swallow is another slow, short midfielder with poor skills. He is very good at winning the footy, but isn't the type of player we need. He's Troy Cook with better ball winning ability. He's also a Freo boy who we overlooked in the draft.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Swallow was a one-eyed weagle before he was drafted. Why would he want to be a Docker?

 

[Freo Hitman]

Why go for Harvey or Sumich when Sheedy and/or Pagan might be available?

your analysis of Swallow is quite the opposite of mine , maybe I havent watched the Roos enough this year.

But Sheedy or Pagan ,,,PLEASE why dont we get Tom Hafey or Darryl Baldock !!

 

[Freo Hitman]

Swallow was a one-eyed weagle before he was drafted. Why would he want to be a Docker?

Is he ???

My understanding he is Freo through and through and was quite cut when we didnt draft him.

 

[Clay Davis]

OK, I'm sick of this.

MATTHEW CARR IS NOT A GOOD TAGGER.

A good tagger is Ling, who shut down Black to something like 8 possies, while getting 15 himself. Carr breaks even with the bloke he tags at best, and his disposal is shocking poor and often a turnover.

Get rid of him.

 

[dominguez]

OK, I'm sick of this.

MATTHEW CARR IS NOT A GOOD TAGGER.

A good tagger is Ling, who shut down Black to something like 8 possies, while getting 15 himself. Carr breaks even with the bloke he tags at best, and his disposal is shocking poor and often a turnover.

Get rid of him.

If he wasn't Josh's brother he'd be playing for the sharks. Josh may be our captain next year , and unfortunately his brother will still be at the club.

 

[Kenny_01]

I think that the way the game has evolved we can't really have hase, belly, and J.Carr in our starting midfield, this is gonna seem out there at first but hear me out.............at least one of these guys needs to be replaced in the starting midfield with a taller, faster, running type player and Macca has to go also to be replaced with a taller faster skillful, running interchange player. Macca, grandson, M Carr, Cooky and parker all delisted to make way for these changes and consideration to trading into draft picks to get the midfielders. Des Headland and Mundy to move forward permanently and Hadrill(god please let him stay fit) back into the side.

Agree 100%.

 

[Clay Davis]

Freo's problem is we hunt the BIG trade targets.
We need to chase the lesser likes that come with the smaller price tag.

Moody could come cheaply, if we are going to trade either Murphy or Cambell picking up Moody and Ray wouldnt be out of the question.

Players like Pavlich come along very rarely, the fact is while he is in his prime we have to make the most of him.
Picking up a kid that is two years away is a gamble itself.

Urgh ... WHAT?

Idiocy knows no bounds it seems.

Who is Moody? Is he any good? NO. Hare-brained idea at best.

Why is it that Fremantle has a fear of playing and developing young players
and look for the easy trade? It hasn't worked in 13 years, and it isn't going to start working now.

IMO, if you can't develop youth then you shouldn't be in the AFL. Simple.

Look at Port - finished outside of the 8 last year, have brought some young guns in (take a look at a bloke named Robert Gray who's kicked 4 goals in a half against Essendon), and now sit above us, the supposed premiership favourites.

The way I see it, Port is meant to be rebuilding. We should be doing better than them.

Or look at, and I hesitate to say this, West Coast. Won the flag last year. Playing Priddis who is accumulating disposals. Have a Rising Star nominee in Hurn who is carving up with long kicks. They have a younger side than us by YEARS.

There are two examples of clubs not afraid to push youth. One is a club that is rebuilding after being at the pinnacle 3 years ago. Another is a club currently at the pinnacle.

Where do we sit? Afraid to take a chance on youth and trading for "experience" conservatively. And flailing around at the bottom end of the ladder.

After this round, it is extremely likely we'll be two wins away from 10th place. Shit season.

 

[dominguez]

Look at Port - finished outside of the 8 last year, have brought some young guns in (take a look at a bloke named Robert Gray who's kicked 4 goals in a half against Essendon), and now sit above us, the supposed premiership favourites.

The way I see it, Port is meant to be rebuilding. We should be doing better than them.

Or look at, and I hesitate to say this, West Coast. Won the flag last year. Playing Priddis who is accumulating disposals. Have a Rising Star nominee in Hurn who is carving up with long kicks. They have a younger side than us by YEARS.

When you hang onto your draft picks you don't have to rebuild unless you have 3 or 4 of your best 22 retire at once (like Port did). Fremantle have never had that problem, so we should have continued to improve each year but have underachieved for way too long.

A huge chunk of our list were born between 1979 and 1981 (Black, Josh Carr, Grover, Haddrill, Hasleby, Hayden, Tarrant, Solomon, Headland, Longmuir, McPharlin, Pavlich), in a few years we will be in HUUUUGE trouble when these blokes begin to retire, because we traded away so many picks betwen 2000 and 2006.

 

[sabre_ac]

Urgh ... WHAT?

Idiocy knows no bounds it seems.

.

Know's no bounds....Wow how poetic..You must be really intelligent

Why is it that Fremantle has a fear of playing and developing young players
and look for the easy trade? It hasn't worked in 13 years, and it isn't going to start working now.

Freo's problem is we seem to chase the big trade targets and then hold back at nothing to get them.
Our draft IMHO has been exceptional considering the pick's we have had. I agree we should draft more, but I dont think our trading has been that poor of late.

The way I see it, Port is meant to be rebuilding. We should be doing better than them.

Or look at, and I hesitate to say this, West Coast. Won the flag last year. Playing Priddis who is accumulating disposals. Have a Rising Star nominee in Hurn who is carving up with long kicks. They have a younger side than us by YEARS.

There are two examples of clubs not afraid to push youth. One is a club that is rebuilding after being at the pinnacle 3 years ago. Another is a club currently at the pinnacle.

Where do we sit? Afraid to take a chance on youth and trading for "experience" conservatively. And flailing around at the bottom end of the ladder.

After this round, it is extremely likely we'll be two wins away from 10th place. Shit season.

In the end I agree with you, we put too much faith in recruiting ready made players.
At the same time we put too much faith in the current squad we have, we persist for years with players that are never going to reach their potential. Polak should have been traded years earlier.

We need to find a good mix of both recruiting and drafting, the eagles have recruited Stenglien and Chick while developing their young players.

But you can't deny the fact that the likes of Cousins, Judd, Kerr are rare find's, you could hang on to every pick we have and trade for more pick's and still not find a player anywhere their calibre.

It is all a calculated gamble.

What isnt a gamble is persisiting with dead wood, undiscplined players or one M Pavlich.

PS dominguez is spot on