Strategy Changes Round 2 Fremantle vs. Sydney

[fleur]

Think we lose to Sydney, then it'll be a Derby. If we lose that, the knives will be out

The knives are already out. That was a bitterly disappointing game yesterday. If we're comfortably beaten by Sydney, it will just get uglier. If we beat Sydney, though, then we'll redeem ourselves. However, they will not want to start the season 0–3 and I don't see how we have the mettle to compete with them for a whole game.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I wonder if Champion Data have stats on players whose turnovers/clangers most often lead to goals? If they did, I would think Walker is right up there. If I am JL, I am dropping Walker. JL can't afford to have favourites if he wants to survive the year.

 

[s_wd6]

The knives are already out. That was a bitterly disappointing game yesterday. If we're comfortably beaten by Sydney, it will just get uglier. If we beat Sydney, though, then we'll redeem ourselves. However, they will not want to start the season 0–3 and I don't see how we have the mettle to compete with them for a whole game.

Yeah I can very easily see us starting 0-4 at this point. Sydney are too good. WC will have their one good game a year against us like they always do. The derbies last year did not reflect well on us at all. Dogs always seem to have our measure. I don’t know who we’re playing next but things are looking very dire for a while.

 

[FreoRicci]

I’ve seen enough from Walker to know that he definitely has it in him. Just needs a massive kick up the ass because he’s been so lazy of late. Needs to spend a few at WAFL to get a wake up call

He’s not going to WAFL. He’s so underrated as defender. He does the dirty work on the Stengles, Cameron’s, Rankines.
He just does too much on the ball.

 

[FreoRicci]

Yeah I can very easily see us starting 0-4 at this point. Sydney are too good. WC will have their one good game a year against us like they always do. The derbies last year did not reflect well on us at all. Dogs always seem to have our measure. I don’t know who we’re playing next but things are looking very dire for a while.

Not particularly.
Sydney aren’t too good.
Their forward line is the worst in years. No McDonald, McCartin up forward. Hamling in defence.

We beat them last season at their best, why not come to Optus a bit suspect and should knock them off.
If Geelong is the loss we had to have, then the players better wise up quick.

 

[s_wd6]

Not particularly.
Sydney aren’t too good.
Their forward line is the worst in years. No McDonald, McCartin up forward. Hamling in defence.

We beat them last season at their best, why not come to Optus a bit suspect and should knock them off.
If Geelong is the loss we had to have, then the players better wise up quick.

Sydney like to beat us at Optus though. Plus no way they start 0-3. We need to get our shit together massively to have any chance.

No playing 9 defenders next week with that forward line though.

 

[Footskill]

Last year shellacking by Syd at Optus is reminiscent of yesterday's belting

 

[FreoRicci]

Sydney like to beat us at Optus though. Plus no way they start 0-3. We need to get our shit together massively to have any chance.

No playing 9 defenders next week with that forward line though.

Won’t be 9.
Worner goes, Chapman back in. Add in Aish if fit.

Love how this club continuously adds in ‘first available’ half back. Genius.

Would love to see Chapman or Clark wing. Don’t mind NOD on ball, but gee Geelong just ran in wide open wings all day.

 

[s_wd6]

Last year shellacking by Syd at Optus is reminiscent of yesterday's belting

Last year was 10.1 to 1.10 hours after the McCarthy death. Weren’t even out played just couldn’t kick straight. Completely different.

 

[fleur]

Not particularly.
Sydney aren’t too good.
Their forward line is the worst in years. No McDonald, McCartin up forward. Hamling in defence.

We beat them last season at their best, why not come to Optus a bit suspect and should knock them off.
If Geelong is the loss we had to have, then the players better wise up quick.

They’ve at least been competitive against the Hawks and Lions. We couldn’t compete with a cold meat pie yesterday. The signs aren’t good: weird coaching decisions, players ill-prepared and without any cohesion or willpower.

 

[eastfreo75]

Going into the game, we had Young and Fyfe out of the 22, but I don't think we really replaced them.

That meant our midfield was thin, then when you consider Serong played forward a lot it was very very thin.

We must balance the 22 better.

Yet we selected 8 defenders and played Banfield in the middle.

JLo makes too many mistakes at selection.

 

[eastfreo75]

He’s not going to WAFL. He’s so underrated as defender. He does the dirty work on the Stengles, Cameron’s, Rankines.
He just does too much on the ball.

That’s a structural thing.

Walker shouldn’t be used as a ball handler unless he is breaking the lines.

JLo got to go.

 

[millsy]

I wondered why this was the case, and my theory is because we play a stoppage based game style as opposed to keeping the game in motion - like the Hawks, Geelong, Magpies, GWS etc... if you lose the contest against these teams you are basically ****ed.

So these teams just pressure us until we fumble and turnover, then they keep the ball in motion never letting the team regain control.

Do you think we're still intending to be a stoppage based team, or we're trying to evolve that?

Feels like most of the comp are evolving more as I think you're alluding to. Bit unclear how far we're trying to follow.

 

[wakojako]

People are prone to wanting lots of changes after a big loss, but I think we should stick with the obvious changes for now and see how we go.

1. Chapman > Worner: Obvious choice, not AFL standard at this stage of his career.

2. Voss > Reidy: Another obvious choice, not AFL standard and we need some mongrel in the ruck.

3. Erasmus > Banners: Without Young we are sorely missing that big bodied midfielder to feed our other mids. Ras' skills are irrelevant, his job is to win ball, crash through packs and feed our other mids. Johnson can't do it all on his own.

4. Banners sub

Players on Notice

• Ryan: If he doesn't start finding some form then Chappy and Draper can take his position. Can't believe we have let standards drop.
• Wagner: if he has a few more poor games then I would move Reid to that position and let him play that Daicos role (only once Bolton and Walters are back). We need an aggressively skilled player in that backline to push our score chains.

 

[muckypup]

lower leg complaint lol

 

[freo1]

Massive red flags for me were after the first 5 min of the indigenous game. Nothing in style changed. We went slow and wide as usual

The kicker was after the game though when Longmuir had the arrogance to say we purposely played vanilla. I’m n what earth does he have the arrogance to decide when we switch game styles? Winning form is good form. Pre season needs to be attacked as best possible and as humble as possible.

Our pre season has screamed of arrogance, starting with Mr Vanilla, followed by players talking up how well we’ll do, how it’s been the hardest preseason ever etc.

Just such arrogance from a club and team who has no runs on the board and no need to be arrogant.

I’ll keep supporting us strongly but gee people will be dropping off unless they zip their lips and let their footy do the talking.

 

[Footskill]

Massive red flags for me were after the first 5 min of the indigenous game. Nothing in style changed. We went slow and wide as usual

The kicker was after the game though when Longmuir had the arrogance to say we purposely played vanilla. I’m n what earth does he have the arrogance to decide when we switch game styles? Winning form is good form. Pre season needs to be attacked as best possible and as humble as possible.

Our pre season has screamed of arrogance, starting with Mr Vanilla, followed by players talking up how well we’ll do, how it’s been the hardest preseason ever etc.

Just such arrogance from a club and team who has no runs on the board and no need to be arrogant.

I’ll keep supporting us strongly but gee people will be dropping off unless they zip their lips and let their footy do the talking.

Seems first instinct for the backs is go laterally. Noticeable with draper and cox. Only if nothing else then bomb it. It's fine they go laterally, to switch. But the next player then stops even if no-one is on the mark. Looks to go laterally and when they can switches it back to where it started. Usually this then leads to errant kick that results in turnpver

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Do you think we're still intending to be a stoppage based team, or we're trying to evolve that?

I can't see us moving away from our current strategy, especially with Darcy and Jacko on our list and on big money. Logically, it does make sense — we have two rucks who should be able to dominate stoppages. This strategy worked really well for Melbourne in 2021, but it's important to note that the game has changed significantly since then.

In terms of game style, we play something very similar to Brisbane, but the reality is, we don't have nearly the same level of talent on our list. We're also looking to evolve our game by introducing more speed on the ball. However, we only add that speed when we have control of it. Fremantle, for example, likes to execute a short kick out of contests, enabling them to use runners off half-back to move the ball forward quickly. This is an area we are trying to improve on, but with the umpires now more strictly adjudicating the 15-meter kick rule, it's become harder to do, especially against teams that can effectively apply pressure.

So ultimately, the strategy is not totally flawed. It just requires players to be extremely clean with their disposals and for the team to dominate the game in the air.

One major concern, though, is the team's inability to handle heavy pressure. Part of this stems from the players themselves and their lack of '**** you' energy when it comes to tough situations — some players just can't cope when the game gets heated.

 

[anchor man]

The knives are already out. That was a bitterly disappointing game yesterday. If we're comfortably beaten by Sydney, it will just get uglier. If we beat Sydney, though, then we'll redeem ourselves. However, they will not want to start the season 0–3 and I don't see how we have the mettle to compete with them for a whole game.

Are the knive never out!I am used to hearing the sound of steel on wet stone.The honing od knive is very common place, not just this site, but any other Docker related ones.
But I do think that a few will be sweating this week during training wondering if they will be in the team V Sydney.And with hopefully a fewe back, some will not play.Depending on who will be available.

 

[anchor man]

Yet we selected 8 defenders and played Banfield in the middle.

JLo makes too many mistakes at selection.

Longmuir is not the sole selector.There is a selection panel.

 

[Docker82]

I’ve seen enough from Walker to know that he definitely has it in him. Just needs a massive kick up the ass because he’s been so lazy of late. Needs to spend a few at WAFL to get a wake up call

And we’ve clearly got the depth in defence to drop him and drop Worner as well. Has to be done - just don’t blacklist him from the team forever like we’ve seemed to have done with Aish. He’s AFL standard at his best but hasn’t been for a while.

This is just another example of what I’ve been saying about JL not using our depth correctly. This should’ve been done last year.

 

[millsy]

I can't see us moving away from our current strategy, especially with Darcy and Jacko on our list and on big money. Logically, it does make sense — we have two rucks who should be able to dominate stoppages. This strategy worked really well for Melbourne in 2021, but it's important to note that the game has changed significantly since then.

In terms of game style, we play something very similar to Brisbane, but the reality is, we don't have nearly the same level of talent on our list. We're also looking to evolve our game by introducing more speed on the ball. However, we only add that speed when we have control of it. Fremantle, for example, likes to execute a short kick out of contests, enabling them to use runners off half-back to move the ball forward quickly. This is an area we are trying to improve on, but with the umpires now more strictly adjudicating the 15-meter kick rule, it's become harder to do, especially against teams that can effectively apply pressure.

So ultimately, the strategy is not totally flawed. It just requires players to be extremely clean with their disposals and for the team to dominate the game in the air.

One major concern, though, is the team's inability to handle heavy pressure. Part of this stems from the players themselves and their lack of '**** you' energy when it comes to tough situations — some players just can't cope when the game gets heated.

Yep, thanks, agree with much of that. The Brisbane comparison is a good one. Major difference is that they basically kick the ball more than anyone and handball least, and we're the opposite. Maybe part of that is talent, some of it method?

It just feels like without being prepared to go forward more directly at times, we can't quite punish turnover to the extent the real good teams do.

In turn, it means we rely on real contest / clearance dominance to win. When we get that we're getting closer, but like often gets discussed, we don't really have other ways to win. And if we're relying on clearance, it's just another reason the 23 yesterday was strange on many levels (which was part of me wondering if we were going a different way).

 

[Superkoops]

He’s not going to WAFL. He’s so underrated as defender. He does the dirty work on the Stengles, Cameron’s, Rankines.
He just does too much on the ball.

I normally agree but he was not switched on yesterday. Dropping him for a spell even a short one will give him the wake up call he needs. He has been off for a few games now.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

It’s a poor reflection on the way the team is structured and coached if we can’t be at least competitive without a few of our best 22.
This is the biggest concern for me, no way we should get blown away like that in the first game of the year.
Massive red flag on team structure and ability to bounce to change when forced.

Coach has to be on notice

 

[FreoRicci]

I normally agree but he was not switched on yesterday. Dropping him for a spell even a short one will give him the wake up call he needs. He has been off for a few games now.

Mate 20 of them weren’t either. He has a job of defending the star players first not carry the ball.

Ryan and Clark did him no favours.