Changes to H&A and Finals, it wont go away

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Pessimistic

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30k Posts 10k Posts HBF's Milk Crate - 70k Posts TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
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Discussed again by Evans on the couch. says needs more work to be palatable to the clubs biggest problem for me is it needs a lot of changes without commensurate return in the form of improvement

so the general framework is the teams play each other once over 17 rounds, then split into three groups for the final rounds and then finals, maybe changed

I'm thinking the big advantage is over the last five weeks the top six clubs will provide three high quality games, which will be good for TV and attendances. the bad side is this is almost a finals series in itself and to ask those teams to go for another four weeks against some teams from below who have had an easier fixture. also logistics mean the top six clubs might not be able to have a fair draw ie if team x played team y at xs home state in the forest 17 rounds, it should then be at the other teams ground in the final five rounds. To accommodate this completely, there might have to be bye rounds for some teams and play over 6 weeks not 5

So heres yet another attempt at making it work

first 17 rounds - each club plays each other once (and presumably alternate seasons home and away)

then theres three groups of six defined

1. the top six - these play for pecking order going int the finals, for which they have all qualified

2. two more groups of six, split odd and even down the table (7,9,11,13,15,17 in one group and the others in another) These play off for two wild card entries each group

Because the regime for the top group is obviously more taxing, the reward to the top two teams in enhanced.

In the finals, these top two teams take a week off while the take the first week off while the remaining eight finalists play off 3v10, 4v9, 5v8, 6v7, (this would be hard to quantify for teams 7-10, but it could be done something like NFL style with wins, head to head results etc) the point is a team from the top six gets a home final against an opponent which didnt qualify for the original top six

Second week we are back to the old final 6 where its QF 1v2, (winner proceeding to grand final) the other four in semi finals highest winner from week one v lowest winner from week one the losers eliminated.

third week: another week off for QF winners the remaining two play off in a prelim.

fourth week: grand final

it may seem easier for the top two teams than now, but if they have qualified with five straight games v the top six, they will certainly have deserved it. result is its nine finals games just like now, but with the exception of the 1v2 qf (which will be like a grand final for the non corporates) they are all elimination so more attractive

modelling on last years top ten (note the positions could have been different with a new h&a schedule).

Week 1: Haw def Geelong: Syd def Port: Richmond def by N melb: Bulldogs def by Adelaide (wild card)

Week 2 Fre def by WCE (QF): Haw def Adelaide (semi final): Syd def Rich (semi final).

Week 3 Haw def Syd (prelim)

Week 4 WCE v Haw (grand final)

Also would have had to abandon certain teams getting guaranteed two derby type games against each other, but using last years ladder as an approximation for after round 17 ladder, fre and WCE, adel v PtA, coll v carl, would all have had second fixtures

Sorry if its been done before
 
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Interesting you suggest getting rid of derby type games, guess you include ALL blockbusters ?

As a return game? (Guaranteed 2nd meet up for the season), yes, blockbusters should be removed. No reason you can't play them the first time though.

The lack of return derbies is a different issue however due to the extra travel removing them would lead to.
 

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Going back to my original, the key thing is if a team comes top six after 17 rounds, then plays each of the other top six teams again, and still finishes top two, a simple qualifying final between the top two teams should be enough to qualify for the grand final. A repeat of the current final 8 after the five rounds would just be repetitive and unneccesary.

All the other finals stuff is just filler anyway. That's the argument against - too much complexity for much the same result
 
The only thing that keeps screwing these suggestions up are the stadium deals.

Any change to the fixtures/amount of games needs to be reconciled with who needs to play what where when and how many times a season.
 
Top 8 Ladder after 22 rounds was the same as after 17 - because there were few games between the top eight teams

Fremantle
West Coast
Hawthorn (P)
Sydney
Richmond
Western Bulldogs
Adelaide
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide
Geelong
Greater Western Sydney
Collingwood
Melbourne
St Kilda
Essendon
Gold Coast
Brisbane Lions
Carlton

Group 1 is Fre, WCE. Haw, Syd, Rich, WB who play five more rounds. top two into QF and others into Wildcard round

Group A is Adel, PtA. GWS, Mel, Ess, Bris L. play five more rounds top two into wildcard round

Group B is NM, Geel, Coll, StK, GC, Carl play five rounds top two into wildcard round

Wildcard round (assuming positions do not change)
game 1 (3rd in group 1 v qualifier from group A/B with least wins/%) Haw v Geel
game 2 (4th in group 1 v qualifier from group A/B with second least wins/%) Syd v PtA
game 3 (5th in group 1 v qualifier from group A/B with third least wins/%) Rich v NM
game 4 (6th in group 1 v qualifier from group A/B with fourth least wins/%) WB v Adel

Elimination round
QF (1st v 2nd from Group 1) Fre v WCE winner straight to grand final
EF1 (Highest winner from wildcard v lowest winner form wildcard)
EF2 (2nd Highest winner form wildcard v 2nd lowest winner)

Prelim final
winner EF1 v Winner EF2

Grand final
winner QF v winner PF

It looks like the same teams as now play the finals, but the arrangement of the 17+5 rounds would produce a different ladder order, which would presumably be a fairer reflection
 
It would be interesting if a group of 6 had no interstate teams in it.

That's the point, the final five rounds would be re-energized, for many different circumstances and reasons. It's about TV etc

the five rounds would have to be played over six weeks because theres no way the various home-away requirements would be satisfied neatly

There'd be a rolling bye, towards the start of the five rounds similar to the rolling bye now, but not a neat 6:6:6 spread over three weeks
 
The other huge question is what bearing would points and percentage accrued in the 17 rounds on the last five rounds.

Options could be:

1. All points are removed - not fair as some teams will get 3 home and some will get two home games

2. All points carry over - might have a situation where the top two are uncatchable so a bit boring

3. when the teams move into a group of six. only the points and percentage gained against just those other five teams in the first 17 games carry through. then if team a played team b at home in the first 17, then team B plays team A at home in the last 5 rounds. any team would have a maximum of ten wins after the 22 rounds
 
That's the point, the final five rounds would be re-energized, for many different circumstances and reasons. It's about TV etc

the five rounds would have to be played over six weeks because theres no way the various home-away requirements would be satisfied neatly

There'd be a rolling bye, towards the start of the five rounds similar to the rolling bye now, but not a neat 6:6:6 spread over three weeks

I was alluding to the inequity of two groups where one has all six teams at home (not getting on a plane) for six weeks and another has half the group on a plane every week for six weeks.

Conferences work when there is a relatively even distribution of teams across a country.
 
I was alluding to the inequity of two groups where one has all six teams at home (not getting on a plane) for six weeks and another has half the group on a plane every week for six weeks.

Conferences work when there is a relatively even distribution of teams across a country.

more likely to be a 3:3 mix or at worse 5:1 - anyway for the top group its pseudo finals which can be lopsided as it stands now. 08-10 was pretty much all Victorian in the top 4

Their best chance is a wildcard entry anyway. In reality those clubs will trial youngsters, rest older players . The fans will see closer contests

I really don't like the playing for draft picks idea. set the order after round 17.

off the wall, could the draft happen after round 17? lists could expand and cutting wouldn't happen till the end of the seson
 
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